[matese]

As a PS, I did not try to house break (out door potty) until they were 100 % paper / pad trained, they were, at age of 5 months old, at that time they had ALL their shots so out door training started, at 7 months old both my girls were 100% house broken with NO indoor accidents. You MUST have your dogs on a schedule for eating and for out side potty. Instead of using your patio, I suggest leash walking both of them, a nice walk with much to sniff works wonders, but, a schedule is a MUST. Dogs are creatures of habit they must know when they will eat and when they will go out to potty, they have little alarm clocks built in them that lets them know when they eat and when they go potty. Feed at the same time morning and night, you will need to see how long after they eat they need to potty, every dog is different, I would start off with, 20 minutes after they eat leash walk them. You must be consistent with their schedule. Even if they make in the house before the 20 minutes STILL walk them, they WILL learn but it is up to YOU to be consistent. After they have learned to do their business on walks you can THEN have them use your patio area.