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Originally Posted by CouversMom  At least around here, bybs do dock. They just dock them themselves, and often reallly short. My mom rescued a female from the shelter who has a nub for a tail. It obviously bothers her and she has licked it to the point that she has an infection. The vet has said she might decimate her tail, so they are keeping an eye on it.
I respect that you have a different opinion, and appreciate that we are able to discuss this  |
And I did state that if there is a BYB that docks, you can tell by the dock, since they usually mess it up, and dock too short. Not a vet, haven't seen poor Mia, but it sounds like they may have either banded her, or cut through the bone, which is why it's still bothering her.
I agree with what Gandhi says, in theory, but in reality I prefer to not be judged by my NATION, and instead judged by ME, my actions, my morals, and how I treat my pets. I do not like that docking is being equated with cruelty. I do not believe it to be cruel, though I do believe it should be done like my professor does them, with a shot of local, when they're 3 days old, not 3 years old, under going major surgery, because the dog has a bad case of happy tail.
Gandhi was raised by a Jainist mother, which has in it's beliefs equality between all forms of life, and was a vegetarian, and so his "the way it's animals are treated" probably also included not eating meats. He was a wise man, and I do consider him an Enlightened One. However, in my belief system, his Path to walk is not mine.
And honestly, were we to take his words to heart, there is not one nation in the world that could live up to his ideals with regards to how it cares for all of it's animals.
You feel it would be better if all yorkies had full tails. C'est la vie. But that is not the case here, and what we have in places that have banned tail docking is a standard that describes a tail that doesn't fit most tails I have seen on undocked yorkies. As I said, the image it gives me is that of a setter's tail. And most undocked yorkies I have seen have tails that curl over.
The funny thing is I wonder if that is in part a result of breeding for dogs that have a tail slightly higher than the back. It's not too much of stretch of the imagination to see how a high tail set on a docked breed can cause curled tails in undocked members of that breed.
When did the UK ban go into effect? 2007 I think it was. And yet, it would seem that from the show pictures I have seen that Ukers haven't yet adapted to the change. Most hide their dogs rear ends, some stick the tail straight up, some hold it out, with the tail falling between their fingers. The tails are all over the place.
Last of all, I worry about any laws that mandate anything. I have seen the slippery slope happen in laws far too often. Seatbelt laws are a good example. First it was you didn't have to, then they suggested it, then you could get a ticket for not wearing one, but only if you were stopped for something else, now you can get stopped for not wearing a seat belt and ticketed.
Because animal rights extremists are so active here, because they promote these kinds of things as short term wins in a long term war against animal ownership, I am against ANYTHING that they can use against us by way of government regulation.
They KNOW that if they can get tail docking banned, there will be people that stop breeding. They have seen it happen in Europe already. They think that's a good thing.
Just like when breed bans went through, there were (and are) people that have gone through hell because they have a mix breed that looks like a banned breed, they also know that people will go through hell if they have a docked dog, even if the dog had to have a therapeutic amputation because of happy tail. They are HAPPY if someone would rather either put their dog down, or turn their dog over because of the dog being in pain, or because they can't afford the second or third surgery for the same issue, both outcomes suit their agenda.
There ARE ways to go about it, that are better than just an out right banning. Giving breeders the CHOICE, adding a section in the standard FOR natural tails and ears. That is far better than forcing your viewpoint on people that do not want it. In Europe, it was NOT the breeders that wanted this law, it was forced on them. And that was wrong.
After a few years of having both natural and docked/cropped showing with equal consideration, once the tails of docked breeds start to not look like crap, THEN the breed clubs could say that greater consideration should be given to the natural dog.
Know what that does? That ENCOURAGES breeders to not dock or crop. All forcing people to do something they do not want to do does is breed anger and resentment. Once more people go natural, since that gives them a better chance to win in the ring, after a few years, they can REMOVE the docking from the standard. And once all the old show dogs that were docked way back are past show age, the standard can again be changed to disqualify docked dogs. Sure, it could take say 15-20 years to fully implement, but it would be far better to do it like that than to force people to comply with something they don't want to.
This is the seatbelt thing all over again, but with less feelings of helplessness, because this is coming from within, with the breed club, and the members working on this together.
You get more with honey than vinegar, and you get better results from carrots over sticks. You want to start waving sticks around people, I promise you, they will dig their heels in and fight you every step of the way.
It's ugly, it DIVIDES us, and while we're fighting amongst ourselves, they slip in something like the propose APHIS changes, and mandatory spay/neuter, and other things to restrict and regulate dog ownership.