[gemy]

I'd like to chime in on some of this conversation. On a number of different points.

A standard is a standard, most especially with the dogs of ancient/older lineage, because it has been proven true and beneficial for ALL aspects of the dogs over time. This is the fundamental, truly very important point to me.

Now as science has developed and matured, some aspects such as genetics, and testings have evolved, and have created a broader expanse of knowledge. There are truly very few true "genetic tests for any breed". For sure there is NO GENETIC TEST for Liver Shunt. That is being worked on diligently. There is a genetic test for deafeness in at least one breed, there IS a genetic test for hyperuricosuria, and a couple of other genetic tests, including one that provides the color coding. YT's are not the only breed that needs this, so does my Breed that I breed.
And pardon my difference of opinion, I do like to KNOW, especially if there is a reliable test. I won't count just on history or knowledge of past lines, if the test is there I will do it!. So to say you "know" the lineage, is more accurately you have studied and have word of mouth, some spotty reliable documented health results; and you've done your best to arm yourself with as much knowledge as you can. And just remember Breeders, all those pet dogs you placed in homes, traditionally have had no documented health tests posted!.

Breed enthusiasts DO NOT BREED off color dogs indiscriminately. For some very sound reasons. Most of the health lineage, and DOCUMENTED health testings, are about the purebred IN STANDARD dog, and that includes color. We too have our Silvers, our Browns, our Greys, in a Black Russian Terrier. That Black is the ONLY acceptable color in the ring. Any other color is an automatic disqualification.

In terms of Judging. I'm sorry to disagree with at least one poster here. But there are definitely Face judges and Dog judges. Face judging means the judge is more inclined to award the ribbon to the "handler" he/she knows, often times the professional handler. There are stats and facts to support this... ummm I think it was info dog that posted some illuminating stats. Dog Judges, don't care who handles the dog, and just looks at the dog. And then there are the Judges that "prefer" a certain look or size, and if you have a dog that doesn't meet that criteria there is little point in showing under them. There are Movement Judges, and Coat Judges, and Face Judges (ie disproportionately weigh a good head, and ignore some obvious major flaws). There are judges who judge all over the place. ONe day placing this dog "type" over that etc.
There are also something called Judging Seminars, where judges are trained to "learn about a specific breed". Who teaches these judges? Well the well known respected breeders do, and is organized through the National Clubs of that breed. I am the Chair of the Education Committee for my breed, and I conduct those seminars.
This is a very important influence on How Judges will Judge your dog. This informaton should be available to every member of the Breed Club. Trust me our internal discussions can get quite heated at times.

This does not mean dog judging is a morass of pointlessness. It does mean,as it is conducted by people, with human exhibitors and dogs competing, that there is a complex set of relationships, and opinions set in a very competitive environment. It is not perfect, but it is what we have to work with. As I have written before, the offside ring sharing, mentoring and evaluating is priceless.

I do believe in transparency; which is why I encourage All Breeders, to get the Health Testings done, and to get them posted on the various relevant health sites. If you do the testing, then post it!