*sigh*
I think we are all agreed that mixing two breeds is NOT creating a new breed. Not in F1, not in F2, and not in F3. By the time you get to F4-10, though, I think we can say that you may well be on your way towards a new breed.
The Biewer is showing as a unique genotype after less than 30 years... And other than the rumor that the dogs that produced Schneeflocken might have possibly had a cross somewhere in the background of the founding kennel of his parents lines.. the Biewer is said to be all Yorkie in it's inception..
The fact is a tightly in/linebred line can after a period of time have a genotype distinct from the general parent breed, as well as a distinct phenotype.
We that show have always looked at a dog and said to ourselves, that looks like a <____> bred dog, and sure enough we were right.
The question I have asked, is when does a series of breeding made from crosses in the course of creating a new breed actually becomes a new breed?
At least one rare breed, the Chinook, has a backcross program to increase genetic diversity.
"The breeding method employed during this process is to begin by breeding a non-Chinook (dog zero) with a full Chinook. "Dog zero" must meet the following four criteria: It must have a four generation traceable lineage with no known hereditary health faults. It must be a purebred dog selected from a breed purported to have contributed to the development of the Chinook, be a working breed of dog or be an unregistered working dog with a documented four generation pedigree. If purebred, it must possess a registration number from a recognized registry. It must be a good specimen of its breed and possess no major faults. Acceptable progeny of the first breeding will then mate with a full Chinook. This process is continued until the fourth generation. Fourth generation Crossbred Chinooks are then eligible for consideration as purebred Chinooks."
*A descendant of a C.O.A. CrossBreeding program attains full Chinook status when it conforms to the U.K.C. Chinook Breed Standard, is at least a fourth generation descendant of a "dog zero", statistically carries 93% of more Chinook genes, and qualifies for acceptance through the requirements established for the program."
Are we then to say that those dogs are NOT their own breed, because with today's DNA tests we can see what crosses are being used in the dog, and they do not have their own geno type?
For that matter, have you SEEN these dogs? They look like the horror of a yellow lab/ GSD breeding program gone wrong... and I am sure if I went to the local shelter, I can find at least 3 dogs that look like Chinooks.
So I think they don't have an as yet distinct phenotype either.
Of course this is my opinion only.
But for some people, this is still crossing. Even though it is done with the breed clubs approval, and they have a program, and it's to increase the genetic diversity.. And because of the accepted crossing in the bred, there is no way these dogs have a unique genetic profile or phenotype at this time.
Are they not still a breed?
And SHOULD a group of Chorkie breeders (or Morkie, or Shorkie, or what have you) decide to create a breed and begin multi generational crosses, and even implement a back cross program... How soon before they can be considered their own breed?
When do they stop being a cross, and become their own breed?
The Biewer makes a timeline that shows 25 years is enough to produce that distinct genotype and phenotype, but is that enough to call something a distinct BREED" Any line that is in and linebred over time can also produce a distinct geno and phenotype, and yet still be within the same breed.
The Chinook blurs that line. They have their own registry, they have a standard, they are working towards AKC recognition, but they still have a cross breed program.
I don't know the answers to these questions, and that is why I am opened minded about the possibilities. |