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Old 12-27-2010, 11:49 PM   #120
FlDebra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinehaven View Post
Here are a few links that challenge some of the views posted in this thread and a few new points, to make us all wonder ...

The YTCA's website calls Parti yorkies "Designer dogs" Yorkshire Terrier Club of America (Awards)

A portion of the YTCA's website article (also posted in post #1 of this thread in Gale Thompson's " Parti-Color Yorkshire Terriers" article) states:

A brief history of the development of the Yorkshire Terrier will show that the dog was developed in the 1800’s. In England, the Waterside Terrier was often crossed with the old English terrier, a silky coated black and tan or blue and tan terrier weighing around five pounds. When crafters from Scotland came into England, they brought several “Scotch“terriers, among them the Paisley and the Clydesdale. The Paisley was a small silky coated dog in various shades of blue. The Clydesdale was a blue and tan dog with the exact color pattern as the Yorkie of today. All of these original breeds were grizzle, tan, blue, blue and tan, or black and tan. No white dog or dogs with white markings were involved in the process of developing the breed. The first Yorkshire Terriers were entered at shows as Broken Haired Scotch and Yorkshire Terriers. In the early days, dog classes were often divided by size, under five pounds and over five pounds; however, there was never a class for colors other than the blue and tan we see today.

The article states that No white dog or dogs with white markings were involved in the process of developing the breed ... BUT

The Otter hound was used in the makeup of the Waterside terrier - Waterside terriers were used in the make up of the Yorkie according to the YTCA's Yorkie history page. Color's of the Otter hounds were not only grizzle or blue and tan in color but also piebald, chocolate and tan colored. Otterhound Colors

The YTCA article goes on to state that "The first Yorkshire Terriers were entered at shows as Broken Haired Scotch and Yorkshire Terriers. In the early days, dog classes were often divided by size, under five pounds and over five pounds; however, there was never a class for colors other than the blue and tan we see today" ... below is a link to the "Kennel Club Calendar and Stud book - 1874" showing classes for different colored scotch terriers, white, blue or fawn.

Kennel Club calendar & stud book - Google Books

Scotch terriers or broken haired scotch terriers were used in the make up of the yorkie; there are many early writings of blue, tan or white colored scotch terriers:

British rural sports: comprising ... - Google Books

There are additional links on my website, that direct you to other books mentioning off colored yorkies in early history or other colors of the dogs who were used in the makeup of the yorkshire terrier breed, including white skye terriers : Links - Pine Haven Yorkies

Books also mention white Yorkshire Terriers, here's one link:
A manual of toy dogs: how to breed ... - Google Books

Some of the first prize winning yorkshire terriers were blue and tan born Yorkies.
The American book of the dog: The ... - Google Books

Unlike the YTCA and AKC who feel the Maltese was never used in the foundation stock, the Kennel Club (UK) feels that the Yorkie was a result of crosses between dogs like the black and tan terrier, the maltese and the skye terrier. The Kennel Club

Numerous, numerous, numerous early writings also state that the maltese were used in the make up of the yorkshire terrier and that the Maltese were used to enhance the texture and length of the yorkies coat.

I have a newspaper article written in the 1960's, where a large number of members from the Skye Terrier Club of America, quit the club due to a dispute with AKC while trying to get a DQ rule for the Parti Colored coats showing up in the Skye breed (skyes being one of the dogs used in the early make up of this breed according to the UK kennel club).

Parti and other off colors have appeared in well known old time breeders and in well known show breeders lines, in addition to Nikkos, parti also has been seen in the Wildweir and Parquin kennel.

I appreciate the letter that Breezewood has posted from Joan Gordon but here is a letter from Loryn Bogren of Crownridge Yorkies, written several years ago, where she gave some insight to what she was told by AKC during the late 1990's after the Parti investigation began, as a result of her (Loryn) trying to get her parti colored Nikkos dogs registered.

"Let me know how it goes with your "off-color" club. I will help you any way I can. AKC went back as far as they could with the living dogs. They DNA'd about 42 litters. They also talked to a lot of the "old" breeders and they told them they had always been in the lines but were disposed of. Wildweir told AKC that they had more Partis than Gloria but they got "rid" of them. They didn't know the Parti color was a recessive gene and was really not gone, just not evident to the eyes. I still have their letter to me stating that the Parti color was a naturally occurring color and that they could not exclude them from the breed. Ours are NOT mixed. They are true purebred Yorkies.
Let me know what is going on. Hope you are all well and happy.
Loryn"


Written standards are a wonderful guide for trying to achieve that "perfect" goal but standards should not be taken so literally that it discriminates or casts aside healthy dogs, solely because of their nonstandard coat color due to recessive genes - these being the same non standard colors that have been documented in many early books about the breed and also surprisingly seen in the litter boxes of some of our old time and present day breeders. 125+ years ago when this breed began, coat color genetics was not understood like they are now (and believe me, there is still a lot to learn). There were also many old wives tales and untruths that led people to choose or not choose certain colors. White coats in some equine and canine breeds was thought to be inferior and weak, thus unwanted. Other than the blue born yorkies, golden, parti and chocolate colors are no more prone to health problems than the traditional steel blue and tan yorkie are - in other words, their color has not affected their health
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinehaven View Post
.
Some references really need to be read before accepting as evidence of anything. For example, you wrote, "Books also mention white Yorkshire Terriers, here's one link: A manual of toy dogs: how to breed ... - Google Books
It says:
"The white yorkshires, a new variety some folk have tried to push is, I think, in no way especially desireable -- the Maltese can do all that is necessary in that line; while the attempt to make "silver" Yorkshires popular, too, simply means that bad-coloured dogs without any tan (paleness of tan is the stumbling-block in many a Yorkshire's career), are classed by themselves and offered prizes." So, what is this author actually saying? Sounds to me like he is saying in some of the yorkshires the tan is appearing so pale as to almost be white. It is not really a reference of substance as it does not refer to any particular dog or breeder. It does not mention the markings in any detail other than to explain the paleness of the tan. I do not think this refers to the Parti-s as being discussed. But it is taken out of context and difficult to tell exactly what the author meant. It is also only ONE book not plural as you state. Do you have another book?

Another conflicting reference: You also quote a letter from Loryn saying "Wildweir told AKC that they had more Partis than Gloria but they got "rid" of them. " yet Joan Gordon herself, wrote to Breezewood that in ALL the YEARS she and her sister bred yorkies they only ever had on puppy with white on it and they gave the information for its dam and sire -- all of which were spayed/neutered. After typing this I see Breezewood has already addressed this discrepancy.

Several references are listed late in this thread as discussion with a breeder who said she spoke with another breeder who said they saw something. That is pushing "heresay evidence" to the extreme which really cannot be counted as documentary evidence of anything. A good reference is one directly from the breeder involved as Breezewood posted a quote directly from a letter she received from Joan Gordon.
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Last edited by FlDebra; 12-27-2010 at 11:52 PM.
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