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Originally Posted by kjcmsw  I guess it's semantics. "champion bloodlines" or "champion-sired"/"champion grand sire" Just seems a little unreasonable for someone to state that someone who uses the term "champion bloodlines" can't be the real deal. ... So what's the term for champion grand-mothered? My pups are from grandsired champions; great; great, great; great, great, great-grand sired champions as well as on the maternal side Just would seem much easier to say "champion bloodlines" if I was so inclined I would think .... Semantics: While I agree with the poor breeding practices of those that breed exceptionally tiny Yorkies, but it's also just semantics when people say "teacup" Yorkies --- "teacup" "small" Kendra |
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Originally Posted by kjcmsw I will add "champion" doesn't always mean that much either. Someone recently posted their dog/puppy won some championship but noted their dog was the only one in that category...thus a pot-bellied pig may have gave it a run for their money. ...Kendra |
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Originally Posted by kjcmsw My whole point is new buyers should look at the pup they intend to buy and speak with the breeder, not concern themselves so much with all the "marketing wording" because it's really a "toe-may-toe"/ "tah-ma-toe" thing. Depending on one's locale.
Like I said, if someone asks about bloodlines, it just seems "easier" to say "champion bloodlines" and IF they want more details, then one can specify whether the pups are "champion-sired", etc ...
No one can (intelligently) say that a puppy from a breeder is not quality based strictly on a website's brief introductory wording, it's wrong to do so, it is not education, it's misleading...it's just ignorant to make statements about a particular breeder without first hand knowledge.
The other person's post about the price determines the quality is also wrong. I seriously do want my pups to go to a good and loving home first. I've made the decision to sell them for less to help assure they will be sold while young and will more readily bond to their new owner. ...
I guess I just want true and accurate "education" out there, not picking other breeders apart when someone doesn't 'personally' know anything about them or their dogs. It's wrong, it's petty, it's so junior-high school.Kendra |
Well -- now I understand. I actually had the feeling you must be a breeder and were taking some of the things so personally. Now you are getting pretty insulting with your comments. I do not think anyone you are responding to is being "junior high-school" or petty and definately NOT ignorant. They are honestly saying things that can help a novice pup buyer in researching more, asking more questions and not being misled with meaningless words. You may call it just a case of semantics but I call it red flags for further research. If you are calling champion great, great, great, great, great, great grand-sired pups "champion bloodlines," then this is just what I am talking about. That far back in the family tree really is not a sales plus, saying they are champion bloodlines just makes it appear so to unexperienced buyers.
I haven't seen any of the really good breeders actually advertise at all so the terms you are now questioning don't really come up, until contact has been made with a quality breeder. I still believe if you see an ad saying "champion bloodlines" it would make me ask more questions to see if that is any valid plus or not. As to your comments about prices -- I told you the TRUTH about MY experience in MY area. If you can do everything that SHOULD be done and still sell pups for less than $1000 more power to you. Tell me -- what pre-mating testing did you do on sire and dam? Have they had full body xrays? Are they OFA-certified? What about their eyes? CERF? What were the numbers on their BATs pre & post prandial? Who did you have look at them for conformation verification? Where did you get your dam and sire? At what age do you let the pups go to new homes? What vacines have they had? What does your guarantee say? Do you agree to pay vet fees or only exchange for another pet? I feel like guarantees that make you give up a pet you have bonded with are worthless. What do you feed your pups? Where are your adults and pups housed? How much time do you interact with the puppies? All of these questions go into what I consider the quality of a pup. I NEVER said the price has anything to do with the quality of the puppy. I did say that if a breeder is doing everything right, they can't afford to sell their pups for $600! And that is a fact -- unless they are having litters of a dozen or more! I can tell you also that I went
in the hole a bundle with my litter that I sold for $900 each (sold 3 and 2 went to family) -- I sold them for less, not because they were lower in quality than the $1500 parents, but because of my own lack of experience. My breeder/mentor thought I should have been asking $1200-$1500. But I figured I would work up to it and breeder experience and knowlege base was a factor in pricing.
I tell you what though --
I challenge you to show me ONE -- just one -- website where they are using the sells ploys we've discussed in this thread and selling the dogs for $600 or less that is truly a quality breeder. I would love to see one. Because I have not seen it yet and I read on here a LOT. We have to have some identifiers that cautions people against poor breeders. The red flags do not mean for sure that the person does not care -- maybe they are just uneducated or new, or misunderstand what is the right way to breed and sell yorkies. But red flags should alert people to be very careful! People are giving the truth -- true things to be vigilant about!
I do believe some make champion that have not really deserved it -- but that is true of anything in life. Some will always slip through. But if you see a breeder is breeding from a line of champions (current line not umpteen years ago) then you know she is showing. Showing allows for the verification of conformation. It is saying -- yes, this dog is worthy of breeding. One thing I would have done differently in my very brief foray into breeding, would have been to show them first. I could not travel at that time, but I plan to before and if I ever breed again. I did have two experienced breeders take a look and give me their opinions on standard before I decided to breed them. But that was not really the same. Showing also shows a dedication to the breed that often correlates to attention to details and quality care and breeding. There are exceptions to every rule -- but still you need guidelines to help make wise decisions.
Try not to be so argumentative and insulting -- it might help get your point across more effectively. Do not twist what is said. No one has spoke in such absolutes as you accuse. I have read many of your posts where it seems you have fought the ones who want to warn of unscrupulous breeders. If those warnings are hitting too close to home, maybe it is time to do a little re-evaluating of the way you breed.