I've repeatedly said I cannot speak
specifically to orcas, as I have not read any in-depth material on them. I also said that if they have shorter life spans in captivity, that's certainly an indicator that they aren't doing well. It seems reasonable to me to think that some animals could do well and others couldn't.
"It's inherently cruel to keep animals in captivity." Really? Why? This seems to me to be an entirely emotional, anthropormorphic argument. Nature is "perfectly cruel." That's not a fact, it's a philosophy, which is fine, but it's not really something you can speak to either way. Either you feel that way or you don't.
Just curious, has anyone who is so passionately against training actually read any studies on how this works? Because I have read a lot, and honestly, to me, "reducing an orca to begging for scraps" sounds incredibly like spin to me.
"Whales are held captive for amusement and there is no getting around this." I'm sorry, but this is FALSE. OF COURSE the whales are being studied in captivity! We study EVERYTHING. Why would whales be different?
FYI, a lot of the "degrading" tricks animals perform, they came up with themselves. It's a basic concept in training, that even fairly low-intelligence animals can do, which is "show me something I haven't seen before". A lot of tricks that dolphins can do, for instance, hopping around on their back fin, aren't shaped by the trainer's goal. It's something the dolphin thinks is cool, and offers as a behavior.
I have to say, I've found this conversation pretty frustrating, because it doesn't seem like people are taking time to really consider the circumstances and educate themselves on these topics. Does nobody else here train their dogs? Those training techniques you're using were perfected on marine mammals. These arguments are totally emotional. Emotional is fine, but it can't be the entire basis for an opinion (IMO!). I'm okay with people disagreeing, but please, use some real information, not just your gut and a link to an article written by someone who hasn't deeply researched the topic.
If anyone is interested in an actual history of animal training, zoo keeping or marine biology, please feel free to PM me for book recommendations. I don't feel like what I'm saying is getting heard at all, so I'm out. Peace. I still love you guys.
