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Originally Posted by livingdustmops  I am not sure what generation you are talking about but the generation I think you are talking about the woman had no choices...it was expected that their only role in life was to be a stay at home mother. More woman were on prozac in that generation than ever. If a woman didn't have a husband then she had to go to work and support the family but guess what she didn't get paid for the same work or she was only good for entry level work.
I am 60 years old and grew up in the household you are talking about and trust me we all talk about how wonderful it was and I believe this is only because we didn't have everything rushing at us on tv, radio, news, internet etc. My mother was valedictorian of her high school (what did that matter her only role in life was to be a caregiver) and married my father during the war (very romantic as the story goes) and they had 6 kids. My mothers life was cleaning the house, taking care of the kids, and doing whatever her husband decided they should do. My mother loved my father for over 50 years but I can tell you when the last child left for college my mother finally claimed a life for herself. My father had a rude awakening when his wife stopped making his breakfast everyday and doing his laundry...she told him it was time he took care of himself while she read the newspaper...what a hoot.
Since I was a product of the 60's I can tell you my generation paved the way for you to get into industries that never allowed woman. It has allowed you to have choices in your life that our mothers didn’t have. My girls friends had to quit their jobs when they got pregnant as it was not allowed. My girlfriends and myself burned our bras in protest because we knew we were more than just caregivers and we wanted more in life than just be a "Leave It To Beaver" mom.
I think it is wonderful you believe those were wonderful times but you would not have had the backlash in the 60's if they were. I think you would learn a great deal if you read about the woman's movement during this time and why it happened...and no it wasn't because of drugs.  I think each person has to decide what they want into their lives and how simply they want to live. You can't blame society if you are the one that wants all the clothes, cars, vacations etc. When I got out of college I traveled the world with my job as a travel agent. I had to do this alone as my friends could not afford it but it was important to me. As an adult I have worked in a male industry and I was one of the first woman hired for the job I do/did...going to retire in a couple of weeks. I had a great career but a number of years ago I knew it was not fulfilling my soul and I needed to give back. I was lucky and met a wonderful woman who I joined forces with to rescue Yorkies in AZ. We saved over 50 dogs before I was transferred to Colorado and I am not doing rescue here. I can tell you in my experience in AZ there is no way in hell that a dog should be pronged, zapped, hit, flooded etc. I was the one who took the biters that were going to be put down and I have been bitten more than I care because of how frightened these dogs became because of abuse, children, poor dog ownership etc. I still have two of these dogs and they no longer bite but do I trust them a 100% - No because they were beaten and when I raise my hand to close to their heads I can see the fear in their eyes.
In terms of kids getting spanked..yes I was spanked (even at 50 I would duck if my dad swung his arm up and we would laugh )but I also know of a number of kids beat within an inch of their lives. I also know many adults that have never gotten over the beatings they took as children. Kids were property just like dogs are now and maybe children were beaten to death and laws were finally put in place to stop this and I can only hope stronger laws are put in place against cruelty to animals. My sister has her PHD in child psychology and has an active practice. It is known that if people beat their children then they beat their animals (from a little bit to almost killing). My sister never spanked her kids (even if at times I wanted her to because they mouthed off) but her kids turned out fine and are very intelligent, concerned for the world young adults). My nephew who is only 22 years old travels to Nepal to help out the people in a certain village. My niece (28) is an aspiring actor (been on 5 tv series) and now is helping other young people that hit Hollywood and are lost. I think we are a quick fix society and also a throw away society that wants everything now…that is why everyone ran into trouble with the economy because they are using their credit cards to buy, buy, buy. Very few people (including myself) wait until we can pay cash for the house, car, computer, etc. Where I stop at is, throwing away living creatures because people won’t put the time into their animals or even understand the commitment behind buying an animal that will be with you for 10 to 15 years. I will never forget a heated debate here on YT when a person (young) made the comment to me that I bet your Yorkies are ugly and I said “what is your point”? These animals do not live with me because they are pretty or make me pretty or cool but because they were abused and when you look into their eyes and understand where they have come from and where they are now…they are beautiful. Life is a never easy no matter what the time frame you grew up in…When my father died he wanted to be buried in Arlington (which he is) because during WW II he lived life to the fullest because he never knew if he would make it through each day. Each day was very special to him. My father earned the Distinguished Flying Cross as a pilot in the Navy - it really is a miracle that he came home but my point is that many of us would not consider living through a war as the best of times in someone’s life. Right before my father was killed at 75 he was contacted by the Navy to help write a book on one of the worse battles in the Pacific of which he was part of. Sadly he died right after 2 chapters were done.
I am sure all of this is the reason I do not believe in any form of fear training for animals. I know they are animals first but they only want to give back love and total devotion to us and look at what society does to them - 4/5 million pets put down every year.
I am sorry if I am rambling on but you know how we old people do this. |
Hey, no I don't mind you rambling at all! Thank you for sharing your story and I love hearing actual stories of people who grew up in that time, as I did not, so I definitely don't have as clear-picture view that someone like yourself would have. I actually believe it was the '60's when things started going downhill, LOL. I also wanted to point out that I don't believe things were perfect, by any means. I feel like every generation has their weaknesses, as well as their strengths, but lately I've just been disgusted by the human race in general. However, I need to sit back sometimes and remember how grateful I should be to be living in such a place as America. Actually, when I graduated high school, I decided to travel all over the place with a great group of friends and it was the best time of my life. We went all over the US, going from Ohio to Seattle, into venturing into Vancouver, BC and Victoria, BC. It was an absolute blast and I'm extremely grateful I was able to do such a thing.
Everything I
bolded I totally agree with (not that I disagree with your non bolded statements, the bolded ones are just ones that stuck out to me!) I think animal abuse is absolutely horrifying and terrible as well as child abuse. I do NOT agree with it at all. But that's where I differ I guess... spanking does not seem cruel to me. Could I do it to my own child? Probably not! I'm not that kind of person. I'm just saying I don't find Cesar abusive so I guess that's why I can't make a clear argument here. Because I agree with everything you're saying... yet don't. Argh! lol. And here I sit defending Cesar but I've never actually DONE any of these techniques really because I've never had to. I don't own a larger dog currently and I have never trained one. I've grown up with them, but never trained them. I occasionally volunteer at a shelter where we rescued my dad's dog from, but they also don't take aggressive dogs generally.
Basically, I think Cesar is a good person with a big heart, who loves dogs and means well. I don't think he is abusive but I don't think he's "soft" either. I think he's done a lot of good for the dog owners of America and I really enjoy watching his program and learning different methods. Have I ever alpha rolled my own dog? No. Have I ever so called "kicked" my dog? No. But I most definitely portray his calm assertive energy and his exercise, disipline, affection. On the other hand, I do look at Jackson like he's my child, but I still treat him like the dog that he is at the same time. I let him sleep on my bed and he doesn't think he's Alpha. Even Cesar does different things for different dogs, most of the time he teaches that the dog walking in front of you is bad but other times he will allow it depending on the case. He differs his methods every case. So, there's always exceptions to rules and ways and it's just how each invidual decides to go about it. I'm always up to hear others training methods as well.