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Originally Posted by QuickSilver  I think this is sometimes more a values debate than anything else - kind of like, should you spank your kids.
From what I have read, it is true, wolves are NOT pack animals. They live in families. This makes complete sense when you think about it - you always have relatively fewer carnivores, and an ecosystem could not support an enormous band of carnivores.
Most of our research on wolves is done on artificial situations where many unrelated wolves are forced to live together in a pack.
I am thrilled to see someone else mention Temple Grandin here, I love her.
I would like to suggest two other books I've found tremendously helpful on understanding my dog. This goes into canine body language and gives you more information than "be the pack leader" or "use positive reinforcement". I suspect that Cesar knows most of this stuff intuitively, and uses it when working with dogs, perhaps without realizing it. Amazon.com: Canine Body Language: A Photographic Guide Interpreting the Native Language of the Domestic Dog: Brenda Aloff: Books Amazon.com: On Talking Terms With Dogs: Calming Signals: Turid Rugaas: Books I am still learning a lot about training and I go back and forth on the use of force. I DO think that it is someting ONLY an experienced trainer should do, and used improperly, it can cause a lot of damage to the dog, and possibly to you. I would also say that Cesar is very old school, and that most modern trainers do not agree with his methods.
On the other hand, one of these books convinced me that your dog talks dog to you all the time. I really believe that. It's common to recommend you use certain doggy language to calm your dog, like approaching from the side and avoiding direct eye contact. That would indicate to me that dogs recognize rougher signals, such as the alpha roll, as well.
However, I think it's crucially important to make sure you know what the dog is actually saying before you assume there is a dominance problem. If there's aggression, is it dominant aggression, or fear-based? Totally different approaches are called for in that case. |
Well I have read both of those books you recomanded and many more. Also nice to see I am not the only wacko out here saying what I have said for going on 6 years.
Yes fear aggression is differnt than what used to be called dominace aggression and is not called impulse control agg.
Temple is one amazing Lady for what she come up against in her own life. Let alone being one strong women in a all boys club in the cattle industry and making them stand up and take notice.
As for Ceasr watch a show with the volume down and watch the dogs body language what he misses will blow your mind.
So you know wolves do not alpha roll others, the sudmissive dog or wolf rolls over on its own and this dog that rolls will change from day to day and acativity to activity. Alpha or dominace is not stagnet like once though it is a fliud event and changes which dog is in the lead on what and when.
You walk into a wolf pack at the reseach station you can not pat the wolf like you pat a dog it will bite you. Wolf behaviour does not and never has been a great indicatop of dog behaviour dogs are domesticated and wolves can never be.
JL