My two are tough customers too. I've tried almost everything, but I think I'm going to have to schedule them for a real tooth cleaning appt. Even though I try to be conscientious about brushing their teeth, it doesn't seem to make a big difference.
Maybe I'm just expecting too much in too short of a time?
I'm really kicking myself b/c a few months ago I was at a dog show and happened to be talking to a man I ran into with a dog who'd taken an award the day before and one thing I really noticed was his dog's teeth were SPARKLING white! I didn't think to ask him how he got them so white til later on and by then it was too late

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