pros/cons of dentistry (NOT cleaning)for our guys?

[JennaPenny]

I know about anesthetic and the older they get the more dangerous, but Chewie chipped a molar. she has good teeth and I keep them as clean as possible. I don't want her to lose it, and I know that's ridiculous but it's a major molar and if it can be saved, has any one done this? Thank you.

[Lovetodream88]

Anesthesia is not more dangerous as they get older unless they are not healthy. I went to a vet dentist and had one of Callie’s saved that she broke it cost a little over $1000. To be honest I wouldn’t do it again. They do just fine without them and it is just easier on them to pull it that’s just my opinion.

[JennaPenny]

The cost isn't a problem; It's covered at 90%, and it's one of the procedures they do cover. Cleanings aren't included, not that I mind. If it wasn't a molar, I wouldn't care. However, opinions are what I asked for, so I don't mind one that's against, it's what I asked for. Especially about anesthesia, so thank you. I'll keep this in mind.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by JennaPenny

The cost isn't a problem; It's covered at 90%, and it's one of the procedures they do cover. Cleanings aren't included, not that I mind. If it wasn't a molar, I wouldn't care. However, opinions are what I asked for, so I don't mind one that's against, it's what I asked for. Especially about anesthesia, so thank you. I'll keep this in mind.

It wasn’t so much the cost of why I wouldn’t do it. It took several visits and several times of anesthesia with it because they had to re X-ray it to make sure everything was ok it was just part of the whole thing. Callie eventually broke the one on the other side and I opted to just pull it. She chews on bones and stuff fine. Joey funnily is missing a bottom molar on each side (I guess genetics) and he has no issues. They do really well with missing teeth.

[JennaPenny]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

It wasn’t so much the cost of why I wouldn’t do it. It took several visits and several times of anesthesia with it because they had to re X-ray it to make sure everything was ok it was just part of the whole thing. Callie eventually broke the one on the other side and I opted to just pull it. She chews on bones and stuff fine. Joey funnily is missing a bottom molar on each side (I guess genetics) and he has no issues. They do really well with missing teeth.

Interesting about Joey, Chewie lost a baby tooth that never grew back in on her bottom teeth- not molars. I figured it wasn't the cost, was just assuring the the cost of it wasn't an issue for us. Even if no insurance I would still be asking.

I'll seriously consider what you've said. Only thing holding me back is the fact there doesn't appear to be decay any where. I'm also not alright with her going under that much. I'll have to ask. Thanks, I have a list of questions to ask and a few I never thought about asking. It's appreciated.

P.S. funnily enough (sorry to steal your word) my father, the same man who didn't take his FOURTEEN year old small dog (15 pounds) to the vet after the dog ate a pan of brownies, stopped his usual you're stupid for the vet visits lecture and was approving of a dentist. I guess it's all in the POV.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by JennaPenny

I know about anesthetic and the older they get the more dangerous, but Chewie chipped a molar. she has good teeth and I keep them as clean as possible. I don't want her to lose it, and I know that's ridiculous but it's a major molar and if it can be saved, has any one done this? Thank you.

I would go ahead and do it. Even if the tooth is good now, it could go downhill quickly. I posted a thread in the sick and emergencies section about Bella's recent dental. Her teeth went downhill rapidly in a two year period such that she needed to have most of them removed. She still has a couple of molars that need to be removed professionally at the University of Illinois Veterinary Teaching Hospital because they are past saving, and the roots are too long and they hook back upward. Bella is five years old and she recovered from the anesthesia and her extractions incredibly rapidly. If I could save Bella's molars, I would--the vet said that they are important, and to extract them is dangerous--risks breaking the jaw. Alas, they will need to be extracted.

Have you had x-rays done yet, and if so, are they safe to extract if you don't go ahead and have them saved via a root canal? If they are cracked and you don't do anything about it now, things could get worse later...

[JennaPenny]

Unfortunately, the dental visit is on Friday. her vet appointment, though, is first thing this monday morning. Had I been able to get her in today or Saturday, I would have been in. I don't like waiting either. I spoke with the vet dentist earlier today and they are planning on doing it that day. I mean, Look over her x-ray and whisk her in to take care of her tooth. They said they'll see right then and there no matter if it's bonding or a root canal needing to be done. I'll be putting her on antibiotics, though, because I do NOT want her getting an infection. I cannot thank you enough, this is excellent information and I have to say I agree. This place she's going to is against putting her under so much- that's the reason for the procedure done immediately- which I appreciate. I'll give you an update when her vet does her x-ray on Monday morning.

I'm so sorry to hear about Bella. I hope she has a speedy recovery, as well, when she goes in for the rest of the procedure. I'll keep her in my thoughts and sending you guys all of the warm wishes I can.

[airplane]

Just last week Bijou had a dental done at a clinic. He had to have a tooth removed because it was causing issues and even affecting him being able to eat. And then they had to cut some of his gum tissue cause it was reacting and growing over the tooth and they also did a cleaning as well. He is very old and turns 18 this summer. Regarding the comments about old age not being a factor in the dangerousness of anesthesia, I can share my experiences about that.

I've had vets tell me that old age is not a disease in itself and that if they are healthy the risk is no different than a young healthy dog. But I've had other vets tell me that with the older patients they prefer not to do the anesthesia and that they instead do a sedative because otherwise they won't wake up off the table from the anesthesia. So for me its always confusing when I get different advice from different doctors. I don't know the statistics on it and I'm not a veterinarian so I can't speak from experience about that issue. But for Bijou's dental appointment, this time the vet convinced me that doing the sedative option was best. So there was no tube down his throat or anything like that, plus there was a medication that could be given that could take him right out of the sedation. The vet said he had never lost an old age patient using the sedative instead of the general anesthesia. And there was no issues. It went perfectly. I'm still confused about it though because I do know other vets who don't have that opinion and will be willing to do the anesthesia without giving regard to the age of your dog. I think its just one of those things where there isn't a general consensus and it just kinda depends on what your vet thinks.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by airplane

Just last week Bijou had a dental done at a clinic. He had to have a tooth removed because it was causing issues and even affecting him being able to eat. And then they had to cut some of his gum tissue cause it was reacting and growing over the tooth and they also did a cleaning as well. He is very old and turns 18 this summer. Regarding the comments about old age not being a factor in the dangerousness of anesthesia, I can share my experiences about that.

I've had vets tell me that old age is not a disease in itself and that if they are healthy the risk is no different than a young healthy dog. But I've had other vets tell me that with the older patients they prefer not to do the anesthesia and that they instead do a sedative because otherwise they won't wake up off the table from the anesthesia. So for me its always confusing when I get different advice from different doctors. I don't know the statistics on it and I'm not a veterinarian so I can't speak from experience about that issue. But for Bijou's dental appointment, this time the vet convinced me that doing the sedative option was best. So there was no tube down his throat or anything like that, plus there was a medication that could be given that could take him right out of the sedation. The vet said he had never lost an old age patient using the sedative instead of the general anesthesia. And there was no issues. It went perfectly. I'm still confused about it though because I do know other vets who don't have that opinion and will be willing to do the anesthesia without giving regard to the age of your dog. I think its just one of those things where there isn't a general consensus and it just kinda depends on what your vet thinks.

A dental should never be done without intubation. Water is used in dentals and without the tube they will breath water in as well as all the germs being scrapped off the teeth and then you are looking at pneumonia. There are medications that pull dogs right out of anesthesia too. Never would I do just sedation for a dental.

[airplane]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

A dental should never be done without intubation. Water is used in dentals and without the tube they will breath water in as well as all the germs being scrapped off the teeth and then you are looking at pneumonia. There are medications that pull dogs right out of anesthesia too. Never would I do just sedation for a dental.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make and what I'm talking about. You seem very knowledgeable about all this type of stuff, and certainly my veterinarian is too. He's one of the most well-respected vets in the city and runs an amazing clinic and practice of veterinary medicine. His amount of training and experience is very impressive. So it's really hard for me to question his judgement. I totally believe you about the comments about germs and pneumonia, but when I'm in the room talking to the doctor about what's best to do, and he says that in this case it's best to just do sedation, it's really hard for me to say to him that he's wrong. Cause I'm a layperson when it comes to this stuff. But then again, maybe he's right. I don't have the training that he has. But I have to be willing to trust the vet that I choose to see.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by airplane

This is exactly the point I was trying to make and what I'm talking about. You seem very knowledgeable about all this type of stuff, and certainly my veterinarian is too. He's one of the most well-respected vets in the city and runs an amazing clinic and practice of veterinary medicine. His amount of training and experience is very impressive. So it's really hard for me to question his judgement. I totally believe you about the comments about germs and pneumonia, but when I'm in the room talking to the doctor about what's best to do, and he says that in this case it's best to just do sedation, it's really hard for me to say to him that he's wrong. Cause I'm a layperson when it comes to this stuff. But then again, maybe he's right. I don't have the training that he has. But I have to be willing to trust the vet that I choose to see.

Techs/assistants are the ones who actually do the dentals. We went over this extremely well in my classes. Vets can be wrong. Sometimes we have to do our own research. You might even want to ask other vets because they will tell you what I am telling you because I’m telling you the proper protocol. You don’t have to believe me but you are risking pneumonia which can be very dangerous in small breeds especially older ones.

[airplane]

I do believe you that it’s proper protocol. No doubts about that. It was just in this particular case, given Bijou’s age, the doctor deemed it best to deviate from that protocal. Maybe it works a bit different at this clinic than others cause it was actually him who did the dental in this case, not a technician/assistant. At least in regard to removing the bad tooth, he said he did it. I know vets can be wrong. It is hard for me to dive into the research cause I don’t have a subscription to the academic journals of veterinary medicine. Plus I don’t have the training to really be able to evaluate the research. And I have gotten different opinions from different vets, and they do differ. Some disagree and some don’t. This is just a huge problem for all pet parents when it comes to finding a vet that you can trust and knowing the correctness of the advice and recommendations they provide.

[ladyjane]

I just had dentals done on two of my pups...one is 12 and the other 13. They did lose teeth....both always do each year, so it was not unexpected. They both had abscesses, neither of which was know about prior to the dental. The reason they were caught? Because my vet does dental xrays which is VERY important for vets to do! Many do the dentals without, but the best practice is to do the xrays. There is absolutely no way for a vet to know what is going on under the gum line unless they are done.

Unless a dog is terribly ill and not likely to survive another year, I do them because the risk of the infection is worse than the risk of anesthetic issues. If a vet is following recommended protocols, there is no real reason to fear anesthesia. And when I say recommended protocols I am not just referring to the type of anesthesia, I am referring to the proper amount of people in the room during the dental. There should always be a person sitting and doing nothing but monitoring vital signs during the procedure.

Here are some helpful links:

https://www.avdc.org/ownersinfo.html

American College of Veterinary Anesthesia and Analgesia

As to proper protocol here is a link I use as a baseline to check out vets. I personally only use vets who have AAHA accreditation. When they inspect a vet clinic they look for things like what I mentioned above about proper monitoring of pets during anesthesia.

https://www.aaha.org/default.aspx

[airplane]

Thanks ladyjane for sharing that. It definitely makes me think about things. It just seems like it’s one of those things where I just don’t know. This same doctor has done dental work on Bijou before in the past where Bijou was put under general anesthesia before with x rays and everything, as well as other doctors at the same clinic and at other clinics before in the past. Bijou has always done anesthesia before. Maybe one has to fully be aware of Bijou’s file and history. I just don’t know what all the factors were that were considered for Bijou, for this time, to not do general anesthesia or x rays. I do know age was definitely one of the factors and this doctor convinced me that when they are that old that sedation was much better cause they’re far less likely to die. How would a pet parent question a vet with 25 years experience when he says something like that? Me and every other pet parent are faced with the issue of having to put our trust in the vets judgement. Of course I could find a different vet with a different opinion and have Bijou been put under general anesthesia this time, but without the training and experience I can’t critique the correctness of either opinion that different vets might have. At some point in time you just have to put your trust in a particular vet, and trust that they are doing what’s best for your pet.

[yorkiemini]

I know it is a tough decision, but my 10.5 year old, 3.8 pound little girl has really nasty teeth (genetic) and we do a dental every 6 minths because that way it seems she does not lose teeth. Trying to keep the ones she has and I do fear an infection.

We have never had any trouble. She comes home ready to play!
Just be sure to ask if someone is there to constantly monitor your pup during the procedure - that is standard and expected protocol.

Best of luck to you