Bile Acid Test ?
 

i do plan on speaking to my vet about this but
i would like some opinions please...
oscar is almost 9 months old & healthy..
when he was nuetered he had a full blood panel
all results were normal.
my question:

should he have a routine bile acid test ?

thank you.....

There are two types of Liver Shunts, congenital (present at birth) and acquired (shows up anytime in a dog's life). So, yes, a BAT would be wise. My Tinkerbelle has both, and only ever acted sick once since I've had her. If you saw her, you would never in a million years guess anything was wrong with her!

thank you .
he goes in dec for vax so i will get it done then.
i dont want to take any chances with my sweet boy's health

Also while you didn't ask, review vaccination protocols, there is a stickey in the library on this. I do separate out RAzzles vaccines.

I also agree on getting BATS done. I would separate out the BATS from the day you get vaccines. When you book the appointment explain you are booking to get a BATS done. There is a blood draw done after fasting, then wait two hours feed dog, then another blood draw done.

I wouldn't waste my money on it personally.

I have had the BAT's done on Georgie once when he was younger. I agree with Gemy separate out the BAT's from the Vaccines. I am sure Oscar is as healthy as can be but if it puts your mind at ease to know I totally understand;)

thx, so much
good to know.
Oh and i do get his vax done 3 weeks apart...

Personal preference. It is not routine for healthy dogs. Your vet will likely say it is not needed. Regular blood panels are much more important for asymptomatic dogs. I don't think it is something to hurt oneself financially over. I do think it is a good idea for yorkies though.

It is possible for dogs to have liver disease without symptoms and with normal enzymes. This is especially important for yorkies because of the liver problems fairly commonly found in the breed. There are some drugs that are very taxing on the liver.The only thing a bile acid test would hurt is a wallet. If you have the funds to take care of regular vetting, emergencies, etc. then I think it is a good idea.

Well I guess for me that $60 which is what I paid was well worth the information I gleaned from the test.

We are not talking a huge amount of money. Well at least I don't think $60 is huge.

i could deal with that.

Ours was $60 too ~ so was not overwhelming.

I see nothing wrong with doing a BAT if you have the money and want to put your mind at ease - especially with this breed.

It's been awhile but I believe we paid around $80 which I agree is well worth it. I was always so concerned with Georgie since I knew it was something that was more common in Yorkies.

It's not the money - I spend thousands on my dogs - it's wasting it that's the issue. I'd rather see an owner of a healthy pup put that money toward routine things like heart worm prevention etc rather than start with diagnostics for an asymptomatic dog. That's just my opinion. Oh and I pay $80 for BATs and which I have done a number of times now. Results do vary as well, and to really test your dog you need to do it more than one time. Some people test once get a mild elevation and feed low protein when the dog doesn't need it. OP use your money wisely and buy Oscar a nice gift instead. Good luck.

thank you...

I totally agree with you on this one, Cathy. I don't skimp on vetting either and would have no problem paying $80 for BATs IF they were indicated. I have never tested any yorkies in my care...never had reason to do so. I am not going to start testing them just because there is some remote possibility that they have a shunt, no more than I am going to start doing MRIs and spinal taps on every one looking for AAI and/or GME just because yorkies can have those conditions. And the list goes on and on.....should we do hip xrays on all yorkies? I have had pups with hip dysplasia and also Leggs Perthes. I am a believer in doing basics...and then further testing as indicated. I am not about to start going on a fishing expedition to diagnose pups.

thank you so much for all the great advice.
oscar is healthy so i am not going to worry about
this test unless there is a reason to do so...

Op yes you use your money wisely, and find out if there is a silent killer. Silent vs a vis MVD. And yes you do need to do it more than one time.

When there are studies and indications this is prevalent in the breed to about 30% you bet your sweet booty I will be testing for this, and will recommend testing.

All breeding dogs, should be free of this, and their progenitors, gosh isn't it unfortunate we don't have a health registry that documents what dogs have been tested and what the results are.

Gemy, where did you get that number of 30% ?

Linda, I have tested my boy who is in my care. After all he is a breeding dog. Would you recommend no breeding dogs be tested?

And Yes hip Xrays should be done on all Breeding dogs. And especially pet dogs presenting with certain lameness patterns about 6-1 yr old.

Given the prevalence of LS in this breed and also the relative inexpensiveness and innocuness of the test, I do agree with the protocol of 16 wks and 6mths for testing for BATS.

I am NOT talking about breeding dogs. I did not think the OP was planning on breeding? Did I perhaps miss something?

As for the prevalence in this breed, I do not think it is that prevalent that specialized tests are recommended. I consider my vet to be excellent and she has never recommended such testing. Any pups in my care have basic lab testing done and if there are abnormalities then those clues are followed up on...along with physical findings. A blanket testing for liver shunt in all pet yorkies is over kill imho.

Liver disease is not a silent killer in so far as I know. It normally has some pretty clear symptoms.

To each their own.
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer for all owners.

I do know that Ellie had a couple weird things going on, but nothing close to neuro issues and nothing to indicate to her vet that there was a problem. Her enzymes were normal. There was just no reason to run a BAT. After talking to somebody here, I thought what the heck - that UTI that wouldn't clear up quite right and the lepto reaction could mean something. Not exactly symptoms that a vet would run to BAT for... My vet actually said we can do it if you want, but I don't expect a problem. There was in fact a problem and I'm very happy that we did test. Now we know that there are certain drugs that should be avoided to keep her safe.

There can be a problem while the dog has normal liver enzymes.
LS and MVD dogs can be asymptomatic.
And certain drugs can put the pup at significant risk.

I can definitely understand why some think this isn't a good way to spend money. Just from my experience, I think differently. Anesthesia is relatively safe, it is not perfectly safe and sick livers don't like it much... I hope nobody would skimp on routine care, problems that come up, etc. to do this test. It definitely is way down on the list of things to do. All I'm saying is that if I had a normally appearing Yorkie and some money to spend, I would choose to do it.

Yorkies are more likely to get these problems. Just as boxers are more likely to have heart problems.. If I had a boxer with a normal heart on auscultation, I think I'd still want a little bit more done to clear the dog, esp. before anesthesia. And because the BAT is just a blood draw, I don't think pups are at a major risk getting it done. JMHO.

Since we are talking about Dr. Center's protocol, let's get it right. She states that IF a puppy is to be tested, then it should be done at 16 weeks and 6 months. No where does she say it must or should be done in all cases. Just as she does not state that every bitch destined for breeding who is found with an elevation be culled from breeding. The advice around her protocol was given in regards to breeding dogs, not to pet dogs. And to that, I agree, better the breeder bear the cost than the innocent buyer who just wants a nice companion.

Also, it can be argued that every test is inexpensive and innocuous. An xray to rule out LCP is about $100 and takes a few mins and that is prevalent in the breed. An oblique lateral cervical xray is about the same and that can rule out AAI. A spinal tap is $500 and would rule out GME......and the list goes on.

The fact remains that PETS should be tested for things when they need to be because they have clinical signs and symptoms. My money is better off being saved for things that crop up unexpectedly -- like when my 12 year old yorkie jumped off a bed onto a wood floor and had a catastrophic knee injury that required two surgeries to correct and now is going for rehabilitation which is running into the thousands.

I will spend anything on my dogs within my ability but I will not waste my money needlessly, and I wont advocate that healthy dogs be tested just for informational purposes.

I only recommend to others what I do myself. I do not do BAT's on every one of my pups. I never have and have had countless yorkies cross my threshold. None have had LS or MVD. I don't believe that it is as prevalent as some people believe. Until I see clear evidence that it is, I will continue to do what I do.
Yep, to each his own. I only have shared in this thread what I believe and only what I do. As with any other suggestion...up to the OP to take the information and use it as they wish.

i love yorkie talk.
wow there are so many wonderful
experienced yorkie "parents" here .
ok, so oscar is very healthy 9 month old.
bloodwork is normal
he is nuetered, so no breeding for us.
thank you everyone for the valuable advice.
when oscar goes in dec. For his vax
i will talk to her about the bat test
and get her opinion.