Ellie May... - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Maximo · 08-05-2011, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Well, I don't either (anymore), but I guess for those who think soy isn't okay in pup food, they'll have to pass this one up.

I was turned off to holistic food when realizing most companies lack good quality control, they have zero desire to do any research in canine nutrition, some just employ one or two (IMO unqualified) people to create a kibble!, they dodge questions, some don't do feeding trials, they avoid what they consider bad ingredients by using too many "good" ingredients and then there are excessive amounts of certain things in the food. Also, the larger companies tend to not offer all life stages food and there is a reason for that.

So yeah, I've stopped getting my nutrition advice from forums.

Are all life stages foods bad?

Ellie May · 08-05-2011, 12:02 PM

What I have gathered so far is that they are geared to meet the needs of puppies, so some nutrients may be overfed to adults this way. They do meet AAFCO guidelines for both lifestages, but it depends how comfortable an owner is possibly feeding more of a particular nutrient than what is needed (because AAFCO guidelines already have a safety margin, so nutrients are usually 2-10 times more plentiful in foods than what is required).

I think the point is, puppies require higher amounts of things like calcium (and therefore phosphorus) and whether it is good for an adult to get higher doses of these things is the best thing to do is questionable.

I won't say they are bad. I don't have enough information about it yet. I would say I would prefer not to feed it. The companies that actually study canine nutrition don't seem to sell these kinds of foods...

tem_sat · 08-05-2011, 01:56 PM

If I had to feed kibble again, I would only choose from those companies with EU Certification, which is higher than that of the AAFCO. One example being Champion Pet Foods.

Maximo · 08-05-2011, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tem_sat

If I had to feed kibble again, I would only choose from those companies with EU Certification, which is higher than that of the AAFCO. One example being Champion Pet Foods.

Do you have a source comparing and contrasting EU certification vs AAFCO/US standards?

tem_sat · 08-05-2011, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximo

Do you have a source comparing and contrasting EU certification vs AAFCO/US standards?

In summary and without time to research it...

See: USDA - APHIS - Regulations and Assessments

and

What ?kind? of Protein is Your Pet Eating?

One main point is that all meat ingredients must be USDA human grade.

107barney · 08-05-2011, 04:26 PM

Well, I researched it a little.... I could easily spend hours and weeks pouring over these regulations but I just don't have the time unfortunately.

Here's my quick take on it --

All APHIS EU certification really means is that the pet food facility is using animal by-products to make pet food that were derived from some animal that was deemed fit for human consumption at slaughter but are not intended for human consumption because of commercial purposes. These pet food companies make you think you're getting a chicken breast or porterhouse steak but the EU regulation (which governs the APHIS EU Certification process) talks about exactly what it means to have food that is "fit for but not intended for" human consumption. See Article 6
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...0070724:EN:PDF

lil fu fu girl · 08-05-2011, 04:30 PM

All my years in academia have taught me one thing, " Trust no one, question all ".
In 2008 "downed" cow meat was sold by the Westland Meat Co. to the school lunch programs here in the US. The Humane Society videotaped it and Rick Weiss of the Washington post wrote an expose on it. This meat was sold throughout the US for all children on the lunch programs to eat.

Our government is barely handling the management of our food products much less our pets. I believe that educating ourselves in the basics of nutritional science is a necessity in this day and age.
"Small Animal Nutrition" is a great start.
Because in the end, only we as their caregivers, can give them the best of what they need.

Maximo · 08-05-2011, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tem_sat

In summary and without time to research it...

See: USDA - APHIS - Regulations and Assessments

and

What ?kind? of Protein is Your Pet Eating?

One main point is that all meat ingredients must be USDA human grade.

APHIS-EU tells us about US exports to the European Union, but it doesn't cover manufacturing in their home countries. Conceivably, products made in the EU could use EU-produced ingredients of lesser quality.

Standards placed on imports are often the home country's way of controlling trade/propping up their own manufacturing, even if it small compared to imports (especially when you are talking US to EU).

hugz4all4 · 08-06-2011, 11:11 AM

I went and bought a 4 pound bag of the Ideal Balance today at my local feed store that only carries SD products. I asked them if they were going to continue to carry it and she said yes, that it was hit and that everyone who has bought it has had good results and was extremely happy with it. They also had natures best on the self that was 13.99 so if they are the same formula then the ideal balance would be def. cheaper.
I have also notice that SD is about the only company that lists things like ash and prophorus levels right on their products. Ive had to contact other more "premuim" brands to find out what the amount was in thier foods. I wonder why that is?
We will stick with SD from now on!

.... thanks agian everyone who has posted with your help and information..

ladyjane · 08-06-2011, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hugz4all4

I went and bought a 4 pound bag of the Ideal Balance today at my local feed store that only carries SD products. I asked them if they were going to continue to carry it and she said yes, that it was hit and that everyone who has bought it has had good results and was extremely happy with it. They also had natures best on the self that was 13.99 so if they are the same formula then the ideal balance would be def. cheaper.
I have also notice that SD is about the only company that lists things like ash and prophorus levels right on their products. Ive had to contact other more "premuim" brands to find out what the amount was in thier foods. I wonder why that is?
We will stick with SD from now on!

.... thanks agian everyone who has posted with your help and information..

I may go with that one since the Nature's Best is a bit more difficult to find. Petco had some but limited amounts. I can order from my vet, but that is a bit of a pain. I like to go to the store and buy when I need it.

hugz4all4 · 08-06-2011, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I may go with that one since the Nature's Best is a bit more difficult to find. Petco had some but limited amounts. I can order from my vet, but that is a bit of a pain. I like to go to the store and buy when I need it.

ugh, I didnt add that the Ideal balance was 8.99 verus the 13.99 for the natures best. The pieces are small too so little ones should have no problem eating it.

ladyjane · 08-06-2011, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hugz4all4

ugh, I didnt add that the Ideal balance was 8.99 verus the 13.99 for the natures best. The pieces are small too so little ones should have no problem eating it.

I did not compare the prices....they do have more of the Ideal Balance, though. Did you buy the small bites?

hugz4all4 · 08-06-2011, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I did not compare the prices....they do have more of the Ideal Balance, though. Did you buy the small bites?

No, with the Ideal Balance they only carry one formula right now for dogs ages 1 to 6 and that was the chicken and brown rice, the pieces are small. They also carry a senior and a puppy in lamb.
Natures Best carries a small bites and they also carry a lamb flavor.

ladyjane · 08-06-2011, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hugz4all4

No, with the Ideal Balance they only carry one formula right now for dogs ages 1 to 6 and that was the chicken and brown rice, the pieces are small. They also carry a senior and a puppy in lamb.
Natures Best carries a small bites and they also carry a lamb flavor.

How small?

Ellie May · 08-06-2011, 12:18 PM

Ingredients for Nature's Best (they look a little different):

Ingredients:

Chicken, Brewers Rice, Cracked Pearled Barley, Soybean Meal, Brown Rice, Dried Egg Product, Chicken Meal, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Soybean Oil, Powdered Cellulose, Natural Flavor, Whole Grain Oats, Apples, Cranberries, Peas, Carrots, Broccoli, vitamins (L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Iodized Salt, Choline Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, L-Lysine, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.
Guaranteed Analysis:

Protein 21.5 Minimum, Fat 12.5 Minimum, Crude Fiber 3.5 Maximum, Calcium 0.50 Minimum and 0.90 Maximum, Phosphorus 0.40 Minimum and 0.85 Maximum, Omega-3 Fatty Acids Total 0.30 Minimum
Hill's Science Diet Nature's Best Adult Dog Food at PETCO

Might go with the Ideal Balance if I can find it around here if it's cheaper.

08-05-2011, 12:02 PM	#17
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	What I have gathered so far is that they are geared to meet the needs of puppies, so some nutrients may be overfed to adults this way. They do meet AAFCO guidelines for both lifestages, but it depends how comfortable an owner is possibly feeding more of a particular nutrient than what is needed (because AAFCO guidelines already have a safety margin, so nutrients are usually 2-10 times more plentiful in foods than what is required). I think the point is, puppies require higher amounts of things like calcium (and therefore phosphorus) and whether it is good for an adult to get higher doses of these things is the best thing to do is questionable. I won't say they are bad. I don't have enough information about it yet. I would say I would prefer not to feed it. The companies that actually study canine nutrition don't seem to sell these kinds of foods... __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

08-05-2011, 01:56 PM	#18
tem_sat Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 189	If I had to feed kibble again, I would only choose from those companies with EU Certification, which is higher than that of the AAFCO. One example being Champion Pet Foods. __________________ Beanie the 12 lb Mini Dachshund Fed A Prey Model Raw Diet Last edited by tem_sat; 08-05-2011 at 01:59 PM.

08-05-2011, 04:26 PM	#21
107barney T. Bumpkins & Co. Donating YT Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New England Posts: 9,816	Well, I researched it a little.... I could easily spend hours and weeks pouring over these regulations but I just don't have the time unfortunately. Here's my quick take on it -- All APHIS EU certification really means is that the pet food facility is using animal by-products to make pet food that were derived from some animal that was deemed fit for human consumption at slaughter but are not intended for human consumption because of commercial purposes. These pet food companies make you think you're getting a chicken breast or porterhouse steak but the EU regulation (which governs the APHIS EU Certification process) talks about exactly what it means to have food that is "fit for but not intended for" human consumption. See Article 6 http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...0070724:EN:PDF __________________ T. Bumpkins & Co. Washable Doggie Pee Pads (Save 10% Enter YTSAVE10 at checkout) Cathy, Teddy, Winston and Baby Clyde...RIP angels Barney and Daisy

08-06-2011, 11:11 AM	#24
hugz4all4 YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: upstate NY Posts: 2,114 Blog Entries: 1	I went and bought a 4 pound bag of the Ideal Balance today at my local feed store that only carries SD products. I asked them if they were going to continue to carry it and she said yes, that it was hit and that everyone who has bought it has had good results and was extremely happy with it. They also had natures best on the self that was 13.99 so if they are the same formula then the ideal balance would be def. cheaper. I have also notice that SD is about the only company that lists things like ash and prophorus levels right on their products. Ive had to contact other more "premuim" brands to find out what the amount was in thier foods. I wonder why that is? We will stick with SD from now on! .... thanks agian everyone who has posted with your help and information.. __________________ Love all 9 of my furrbutts!

08-06-2011, 12:18 PM	#30
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	Ingredients for Nature's Best (they look a little different): Ingredients: Chicken, Brewers Rice, Cracked Pearled Barley, Soybean Meal, Brown Rice, Dried Egg Product, Chicken Meal, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Soybean Oil, Powdered Cellulose, Natural Flavor, Whole Grain Oats, Apples, Cranberries, Peas, Carrots, Broccoli, vitamins (L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Iodized Salt, Choline Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, L-Lysine, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract. Guaranteed Analysis: Protein 21.5 Minimum, Fat 12.5 Minimum, Crude Fiber 3.5 Maximum, Calcium 0.50 Minimum and 0.90 Maximum, Phosphorus 0.40 Minimum and 0.85 Maximum, Omega-3 Fatty Acids Total 0.30 Minimum Hill's Science Diet Nature's Best Adult Dog Food at PETCO Might go with the Ideal Balance if I can find it around here if it's cheaper. __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

08-05-2011, 04:30 PM	#22
lil fu fu girl No Longer a Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Maryland Posts: 2,410	All my years in academia have taught me one thing, " Trust no one, question all ". In 2008 "downed" cow meat was sold by the Westland Meat Co. to the school lunch programs here in the US. The Humane Society videotaped it and Rick Weiss of the Washington post wrote an expose on it. This meat was sold throughout the US for all children on the lunch programs to eat. Our government is barely handling the management of our food products much less our pets. I believe that educating ourselves in the basics of nutritional science is a necessity in this day and age. "Small Animal Nutrition" is a great start. Because in the end, only we as their caregivers, can give them the best of what they need.