Need tips for a "food trial" for a sensative tummy
 

Well, the feeding Alice wars continue:rolleyes:. Apparently not only is she picky, she has a sensative tummy too. Here's a background and I'll try to keep it as brief as possible while still giving the necessary details;):

Started her on Verus puppy when I got her (chicken based with whole grains) - doesn't like it at ALL.

Started Orijen puppy (chicken based grain-free) she ate if for a while, then stopped, but she had alot of gas on it so I think it upset her tummy and that could be why she stopped eating it- poops were good though.

Started raw - my mistake - I did beef first(pre-made NV)- she LOVED it but got pretty wicked poops. Cleared that up with chicken/rice/pumpkin.

Went to Nature's Variety chicken Prairie (slowly with the rice and chicken mixture) - she was pooping like 5 x a day and they were big and mushy.

Went back to chicken/rice/pumpkin for a few days - poop was great - small, firm, 1 or 2x a day and not smelly at all.

Started adding a tiny amount of NV canned lamb Instinct (grain free), she was good so I added more and more of the canned and less chicken/rice - kept doing fine just like on the chicken and rice but smaller poop.

Tried a bit or NV raw lamb yesterday morning - poop still fine.

Picked up a bag of Nature's Variety Instinct Chicken - gave aprox. 1/4 cup last night mixed with the canned NV Lamb - well, this morning she has just a very small amount of "drippy" poop - so I only gave the chicken/rice/pumpkin this AM with like a half tsp. of the canned lamb.

Ugh, I realize that's alot of different things, but other than the boiled chicken and over cooked rice and canned NV Lamb, she's had a problem so I had to try something else. I really would like to do 1/2 pre-made raw and 1/2 kibble with a bit of canned mixed in. I know she can have lamb and she's fine with plain real chicken (I only know about the cooked so far, haven't tried chicken pre-made raw yet).

I know alot of you have sensative tummy babies - how did you go about finding what worked for them? She handles cooked white rice fine, but other than that grains really bulk up her stool significantly, but the grain free kibbles I've tried give her runny stool or lots of gas.

My next thought for kibble is either NV LID (they didn't have it in the store so that's why I grabbed the regular Instinct) or Nature's Logic (I have a sample and the only grain in it is millet to bind the kibble and it's suposably the easiest digested for dogs). My other thought was to go with Natural Balance, but that honestly would be a last resort. I could just stick with the raw and canned lamb since both are "complete and balanced", but I was hoping to do 1/2 kibble to cut cost down since I have 4 other mouths to feed lol.

Oh - stool clear of parasites and every thing else is perfectly fine with her. I've never had a dog with a tummy like this, so this is a real experimentation for me. The vet is obvioulsy no help here - he'd just tell me to give her some SD garbage.

Any tips, similar experiences, ideas?

It takes 3 weeks of trying a food to know if it's going to help at all. Of course if they get really sick on it, you can't wait that long. Sometimes GI upset around a food change works itself out...

Have you tried mixing the canned lamb with the old food that she didn't like?
Tried a lamb and no grain kibble?

How about feeding the chicken and rice or lamb canned. After a few days and as long as she is doing well, slowly add in the original kibble or a lamb based kibble. Wait a few weeks, make sure she is doing well, and then slowly add raw. Generally, it looks like some of the foods that she doesn't do great on are "high end, holistic". Not all dogs do. Perhaps it's just an ingredient intolerance, but it could also be the make up of these foods. they tend to be a bit higher in protein and/or fat. People could debate all day about how this isn't true or how they are dogs, so they should be able to handle it, but it's very obvious that some Yorkies can't. The last thing you want to do is be so concerned about feeding the best food, that the GI tract is constantly angry, and then other problems will result (including possibly pancreatitis).

Go slow.
Put her on what you know works (as long as she is pretty much done growing, she can probably go a couple-few weeks unbalanced - but the lamb sounds like it will work anyway), then slowly transition to another kibble. But a tiny amount of loose stool isn't that uncommon.

Anytime I've switched to a new food, my dogs get some diarrhea, especially if I start switching to quickly. I just have to stick with it - like someone else said, it takes a couple weeks to get their bodies adjusted to it, so they probably will have some looser stools for a bit. It sounds like she's gone through a lot of food changes recently and her body is probably pretty confused right now. If I were in your shoes, I would maybe stick with the most recent one you tried or the one she had the least amount of issues with and let her get used to it for awhile and give her tummy some time to settle down. Maybe give her a little canned pumpkin/rice with her food and slowly wean her off of that mixture to just the kibble while her stools get better.

I would keep her on whatever "new food" for a while and I actually did use the NV Prairie Chicken (with grains) for about 2 weeks or so - no diarrhea, but the huge really soft poops 4-5x a day did continue the whole time, so that's why I figured she needed grain free, but you're right - most of the grain-free foods are pretty high in protien and especially fat.

The others recently actually gave her liquidy poops to the point of it truely being diarrhea and once there was even a tinge of red in there, so that was obviously severe enough for me to stop immediatly.

The old food that she stopped eat and had pretty normal poops on (they were at least form and somewhat firm) was the Orijen, but that's the one that gave her bad gas (no gas since she stopping eating that and I stopped giving it). I DID try it once though again - after the raw beef diarrhea cleared up with the chicken and rice combo - I had the same thought - go back to the Orijen - well, that was when she had the diarrhea with the one drop of bright red blood in it.

She just had another bout of liquidy diarrhea just a few minutes ago.

I'm not concerened that she has an actuall problem right now that would need the vet (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) only because when this happened before and I gave the chicken and rice, she was perfectly fine in less than 24 hrs. and she doesn't seem effected otherwise (good appetite, playing, happy etc.).

Yes, everything I've tried so far is high end holistic. The original Verus (which she wouldn't eat) is not quite as "high end", but still holistic.

I'm going to go strictly chicken and rice for a few days (she's 7 months old only, so I'm afraid to go too many days without something balanced) then start incorperating the canned grain free lamb back in. Then I'll try a grain-free lamb formula kibble, but only a few pices per day mixed in (the 2 I'm looking at - NV limited ingredient lamb grain-free or nature's logic lamb -only grain is millet). If she does well on the lamb formulas, how do you feel about sticking with only lamb as her protien source? I could add some boiled chicken in there every few days too since that goes over fine.

Well, if she still doesn't do well on lower fat/protien lamb kibble I'll just have to stick with the canned and raw lamb and ax kibble all together?, Especially the limited ingredient one (I believe that one is 22% protien and 16% fat - the other lamb one I didn't try yet is 30% protien and 15% fat) - the others I've tried are definatly higher - about 40% protien and 20-22% fat - hmmmm maybe that is the problem?

*sigh* I'm sorry Crystal, I probably just confused the heck out of you LOL. I wish vets were more help in this area - I suppose I can look into seeing if I can afford a consult with a nutritionist over the phone or web (there's none local).

Thanks for the advise, that helped get me thinking in the right direction.:)

:) Thanks - the diarrhea gets pretty intense though, so that's why I've been too afraid to keep going and give the new food time. I agree there's alot of changes. i have been giving only boiled chicken with white rice slurry and canned pumkin for about 4 or 5 days straight and she was 100% back to normal. Only then I tried incorperating the new food slowly, but even that little bit, one time gave her diarrhea today - perrty good too, not just soft stool. Back to chicken/rice and pumpkin we go and start over:rolleyes:

Wasn't she just fine on the lamb canned alone? I agree. She is very young to keep having an unbalanced diet like this.

She did well on raw lamb?

Well, I'm (of course) not going to say that a vet isn't needed. All puppies with diarrhea for whatever reason should technically be seen. Since this keeps happening, and it has been pretty liquidy, I'd start to be quite concerned about her hydration status even if she looks normal. So I'd say if she starts to look at all dehydrated (even if that is at midnight and you have to go to the ER), then she has to go in. And if she isn't better by morning, then she has to go in. And if she has maybe like more more one bout of this again today, then she has to go in... It's not that I'd be worried about the underlying cause nearly as much as what it is doing to her.

Also, I'm guessing it's just because things keep getting switched, but if the GI problems continue around food, then some testing should be done.

I don't believe a nutritionist would be of help right now. The non board certified won't balance it according to AAFCO and that is way too risky. The board certified are going to stronlgy discourage feeding a pup homecooked food because it's also risky for development. And as far as recommending foods, they will be foods that you don't like...

Lamb as the sole protein source is perfectly fine. You will hear about mixing and rotating and and and. But remember that not all dogs can handle all protein sources. I'd be much more concerned about getting her on something that her stomach agrees with than trying to get several kinds of meats in her diet (which is very debatable anyway).

Hey, my dog does absolutely terrible with meat and even most fish. Right now she eats soy as her protein. Yup, I have a vegan dog. So what... At least it keeps her alive. :)

Oh wow....sounds like you've tried everything. Sounds like a good plan that you're about to implement but I would recommend if you're doing raw---do only raw. If you eventually want to do raw+kibble, incorporate the kibble later once she is good and used to the raw. Raw and kibble digest differently and one or the other in combination can cause tummy troubles and diarrhea. If she likes the raw and eats it and her stool is ok--use it;) If you're going the kibble route--don't incorporate raw. Just my opinion:)

Viv

I am in the same boat as you with my "parti" girl, Lena. I've been down the long road experimenting with different foods...feeding chicken and rice etc etc etc. She gets gas from most foods, then doesn't eat. It takes almost an entire day before she will even touch the chicken and rice, which we all know is NOT healthy and balanced for a growing puppy, but we do what we have to do. I even tried the EN rx by Purina...GAS. Couldn't figure that one out since it's a gastro rx. Anyway, I started her on Z/D ultra allergen rx...with the permission of nutritionist and she's been good for 2 days now. This is a first! I've been adding a little cottage cheese with a few meals and chicken with one meal. This little girl needs some weight....she's 2.12 lbs...has gained 7 ozs. since we got her which was 3/28. It's very frustrating so say the least. I know this is probably not a "forever" diet, but I need vaccs completed and I couldn't do them when she was having these probs.
Where did you get Alice? Lena came from a breeder in Pa.

Michele

Attachment 345048

Did you check her stool for bacterial overgrowth? (send to a lab)

Colitis (inflammed colon) will cause small amout of blood in the stool. If you can't find a food that suits her you may need to have her scoped and biopsies taken to get to the cause.

Also, no plastic food or water bowls... is she getting filtered water?

If she's bulking up too much on grains, you could add 5-6 green beans or 1 tsp pumpin to help keep her 'going'. Sounds better than the big 'D' to me...lol.

Awww, she looks just like Alice in that pic:)
I got her from my aunt's co-worker who had a litter (in the Wilkes-Barre area). I know, I know BYB, but she was free and honestly , that's how I usually end up with whatever pets I've ever had. They usually just kind of "come to me" vs. me seeking them out lol. The only pet I've ever paid for and actually looked for a breeder for was my Akita since I knew I wanted that breed and they tend to be on the rare side.

Well, she's going to the vet for testing (starting with a BAT and comp/CBC) sometime in the next few weeks. In the mean time I know she does fine on Nature's Variety's canned lamb and raw lamb and the current loose stools already cleared up by having only chicken/rice/pumkpin today. If her tests come back normal I may just stick with the canned and raw lamb since it works for her and it is balanced to feed exclusively. We'll see, maybe she just has a hard time digesting kibble, it's frustrating, that's for sure.

:) Yep, she did fine on the canned and raw lamb alone. Both of those by NV are complete and balanced to use exclusively, so she can have ONLY that, why I decided I needed to add kibble, idk. I guess I was more worried about sticking exclusively with lamb because I've seen it said numerous times that it tends to cause pancreatitis in Yorkies? Maybe that was not something I should have worried about if she did well on it? I thought I knew about nutrition pretty well, but this is really making me feel dumb lol information overload:p

She's definatly not dehydrated, I know what to look for and I'd for sure take her right in if that happened. No vomiting at all and she's drinking and urinating like normal, nice pink gums, no stickyness, CRT less than 2 seconds etc.

Well, this is for sure a lesson to anyone with a picky eater - don't switch around too much. Once she's on what works - from now on forget it - she can eat it or wait till the next meal when she's starving and then she'll eat it for sure lol. I figured going to the Nature's Variety was great because I could switch within the brand without issues, but nope, something's bothering her other than the lamb. *sigh*

I am going to get bloodwork done soon regardless.

Oh- she had no more diarrhea today, just one tiny poop but it was formed, just soft about 5 hours ago (it's 7PM here now and she had her dinner of the chicken/rice/pumpkin about 2 hours ago). That's the thing too, it never continues, it's only a once or twice thing then she goes back to normal by the next day after the bland diet. It's like once she gets the food out that bothered her, she's fine, it's not chronic as long as I stop that particular food.

Alice is doing fine today:). No more poop at all yersterday and this morning it was perfectly normal. She had the rice/pumpkin/chicken mixed with some of the lamb canned for breakfast, fine so far. Looks like I'll be sticking with that and the raw, at least for quite a while. Once she's done growing I may try to incorperate a kibble, but EXTREMELY slow and we'll see how it goes.
For now, I'm just sticking with what works and since she sems to really love it, that should work out.
I've never fed a dog NO kibble at all so for some reason I can't wrap my brain around the fact that she won't be too hungry without it:rolleyes:. Lol, we're brainwashed:p
I looked up puppy feeding amounts on the NV web site for 50% raw and 50% canned, so she'll be getting the right amounts:)
Ugh - stress! LOL:p

Oh no poor Kinder:( I'm still stumped for now, although she does do really great on chicken and rice, so I don't think it's chicken in general. I think for Alice it's more something either in most holistic kibble, or in the processing/preserving even though it's "natural". Or could be it's just too "rich" as far as protien and fat content? Luckily with her though - no vomiting at all, never has been other than the ocassional bile in the AM back when I had a hard time getting her to eat really anything when I first got her. Now, I'm thinking the Verus and Orijen that I WAS managing to get in her was maybe bothering her tummy even though poops were fine because she did have gas (on the Orijen anyway) and didn't want to eat it. Now with the chicken and rice and canned lamb that she does do really well on - she's a chow hound lol. I feel terrible if her tummy was upset that whole time and I just thought she was mearly being picky.
What test did the vet do on Kinder to diagnose the campylobacter? Was it just a fecal smear (different than a parasite check), was it sent to a lab? What other test did they run and were they all normal? I don't think she's actually sick since no vomit and everything else normal and she's fine as long as she's not eating kibble. WHY she doesn't seem able to tolerate kibble I hope I can find out, just to make sure there's nothing underlieing. Idk, it really really just seems like a sensativity to something though since she bounces right back so easily.
I'll keep your Kinder in my thoughts and pray that she recovers quickly and they find out what's going on. How's she been doing on the Fromms since she's been there and back on it? Any improvement?

I hope Alice is feeling better today and I surely will keep her in my prayers and thoughts. Yesterday we were able to take Kinder home because she seemed to be eating better and drinking water. My vet did not send her vomit or poop out he checked it in his office probably under the microscope. This diarrea all started four days after the groomer and our groomer gives them raw hotdogs for a treat. I wonder if the hotdogs gave her camplobacter but my vet still says the bullysticks from U.S and S. America. Well I stopped the Fromms Chicken and just put her on the Fromms Whitefish Potatoe. The vet said to give her boiled chicken breast with rice and she did good for three days then the vomiting she couldn't hold her food down. I was just introducing her dry whitefish so our vet kept her Wed.Thurs. and Friday. So far no campylobacter and he said just give her water and Fromms Whitefish he said she did very well. She can't have any treats and no canned food. Now when I think of it I was giving her the Innova Lowfat canned just a teaspoon with her dry; well that has chicken and turkey so no more that.So basically it is down to water and Fromms whitefish nothing else and we will see how this works. I was thinking like you maybe the dry is too rich but keep me posted on Alice and I will keep her in my prayers, she is a little doll. Too bad they can not talk.I wished you lived by me and I would give you some Fromms white fish to try. The dealers that sell it give samples. My vet just thinks chicken and other poutry is making her sick. He also said one food and that will help us greatly. Take care of and give Alice a hug from Kinder. Susan

Aww, thanks:) I'm glad Kinder is back home with you doing well:). Alice has actually been great the past two days on the canned NV lamb and still just a bit of the rice with a tad of pumpkin and tiny bit of boiled chicken. As of last night and this morning the majority of her meals were the canned and she's fine:D, I'm just trying to go slowly so I keep adding a bit of the rice mixture - fingers crossed though she's fine now. i'm going to wait it out a bit so I don't stress her system anymore by trying anything new and just stick with the canned lamb, but she needs alot of it and it's like $2.50 a can:eek:. Of course, I'll do what I have to though:) I'm just happy right now that's she's fine and I know she's getting all the nutrients she needs. I may try a limited ingredient lamb based kibble or something like the Fromms Whitefish you're using down the road a bit, but for now she's doing perfect and loving her meals too:D. Thanks for the well wishes and the info, ya it is too bad we don't live close, Alice and Kinder could be buddies. I hope they both continue to do well with no more issues. ttys:)

Well so far Kinder is doing good. Her poops are formed,dry alittle and soft but she is eating her Whitefish Fromms and drinking her water. My vet said he isn't too worried so we took her with us in our fifth wheel. We will wait awhile before she gets anything else. I felt bad because I gave my parrot some shredded cheese and poor baby she knew she was left out. I hope this phase clears up for her and she can have a treat. Well keep me posted on Alice hope all goes well.Susan

when i first fed my dog NV Prairie he poop 8x daily,then i went to Petco and bought some probitoics to aid the digestive problem and after a week he went back to normal (1-2x) again.

this is wt i am using
In Clover Fresh Digest Daily Intestinal Aid for Dogs at PETCO

Thanks this sounds like a good product. I was giving Kinder Forti- Flora but my vet said just keep her on the Fromms Whitefish and Potatoe. She used to poop three times a day and they were hard tootsie roll poops. After we cleared her campylobacter infection now she has two big formed kind of sticky poops a day.I wished her poops would go back to the real firm ones. She is playful not sick and eats good so my vet said to leave as is to see if see was allergic to chicken. She had vomiting and diarrea eating anything with chicken.I am hoping her poops firm up so maybe if I tried this it could help.

I'd say she has you very well trained. Find a food (as healthy as possible, one that doesn't upset her stomach and she'll initially eat) then that's it. Put the food down she'll eat when she gets hungry. It's amazing their desire for survival will kick in after a day or two.
Repeat: always told my kids: you have two choices for dinner: take it or leave it...applies well to dogs too.

While I did agree with the post below, that was before I had a baby with a sensitive tummy. I used to just choose a good quality kibble & take a "take it or leave it" attitude. All my babys did fine! Now my little rescue Tink is having such a hard time with her tummy. Vet has ruled out parasites, bacteria & structrual issues.She says its food related. I'm searching for a good kibble that doesn't give her gas or soft mushy poop. Suggestions are welcome!

Oh I agree, at first she literaly wouldn't touch the food after a few days even if she did skip a meal and at one point she wouldn't even eat boiled chicken so I actually think pretty much every kibble I've tried so far gave her a tummy ache. Orijen was the one she ate for the longest and she did have alot of gas on it, so I think it bothered her and I didn't realize it and that's why she eventually refused it. No pickyness at all now though since I found the canned food that her tummy is fine with (she would refuse the other canned food I tried after a few days too)- she gobbles up every meal:). So, although I do agree with you, sometimes you do have to trust what the dog is trying to tell you:). Once I do find a kibble that she can eat without a tummy issue, I'll be sticking with it and I doubt that if it doesn't bother her she would be picky about it, I honestly think that was the problem all along.

It's great too if you only have 1 dog and can just leave food down for a picky eater and they'll eat when hungry, but I have 2 other dogs here who would gobble it up as soon as I walked away lol.

Thanks! I'll give that a try, I clicked the link and it got great reviews plus it said it has a good taste so that's important lol. I've been planning on giving a digestive suppliment a try but there's sooo many out there I didn't know where to start and I'm glad I can pick it up at Petco instead of ordering online.

Glad to know my dog wasn't the only one pooping out more of the Prairie than it seemed like she was even eating LOL.

Look up Canisource. It is new and made in Canada of human grade ingredients. It is supposed to be as close to raw as you can get. I searched for reviews on it and comes recommended even for the pickest eaters. I am going to try it this weekend.

Our Magic has a very sensative tummy and we spent over a year with stomach issues, trying different foods (very slow switches - over a 10-15 day period) and she would do ok for awhile and then the tummy issues would return. The vet finally put her on a Purina colitis food and that finally stablized her.....but was not something I wanted to use long term - but did for about 4-5 months.
Then we spoke with someone that had been through something silimar and she recommended Natural Balance Sweet Potatoe & Fish......we hesitantly tried and and over 3 years later she is doing great!! May not be everyone's first choice of foods.....but it has worked great for her and she is not at the vet every week or two anymore and is healthy!

Good luck finding something that works!

Thanks for the tips :). Ya, NB was one of the foods I was considering, I ordered some samples of Wellness CORE oceans, but just hanging on to those for now. I just started adding a bit of a kibble recommended by the owner of the holistic per store I use - it's called Annamaet and I'm using their grain-free fish formula. She recommended it because it's not as "rich" (the protien and fat is lower than most other grain-free foods for this exact reason, similar to the Wellness or NB) plus there are extra probiotics in it to aid digestion. So far so good and she really likes it next to the NV canned food she does well on (although she hasn't acted picky at all for a while now, still not holding my breath though lol).

Well I thought I would give you an update with Kinder's tummy problems. Our vet figured she was allergic to any food with chicken in it. We put her on the Fromms Whitefish and Potatoe and her water and she has been doing wonderful. I did write to Natural Balance and told them my problem and they are sending me some poultry free samples. Kinder can not have any treats so I thought I would get her a food for treats. I hope Alice is doing much better. When Kinder was on one food only we could tell if it made her sick. It took a week and a half on the fish to have tootsie roll poops. I am keeping my fingers crossed and doing what the vet said.I did not know her canned Lowfat Innova had chicken and turkey in it. It took awhile for her to eat her dry but every morning we let her in bed to eat her dry fishfood. Talk about spoiling her but it works. Hope all goes well for Alice.

Glad Kinder is still doing well and you figured out the problem :). Alice is doing great now, she's on the Nature's Variety canned Instinct lamb and Annamaet grain-free fish based kibble. She also gets NV raw lamb medallions for breakfast every other day and so far nothing but those perfect little "tootsie role" poops :) She's also fine having Nature's Logic lamb treats and she LOVES them and since I also know she likes and is fine with boiled chicken breast, I can add that once in a while too so I think I found a good amount of things she likes and does really well on, so yay! Still not sure what exactly it is that bothers her, but I'm basically just avoiding any chicken (other than real breast) and beef or anything high in fat and I think we're good :)