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Old 06-09-2010, 05:33 PM   #1
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Plane Seborrhea or not?

Hi everyone -

I need some advice from knowledgeable yorkie/doggie owners!
About a week ago, Pilot developed scab like things on his neck under his ear. We took him to the vet and she stated she wasn't sure what it was and she wanted to run a few tests. (She checked for ringworm's and parasites -both tests were negative.)

Two days later his scabs have spread to the top of his head, on his foreleg, and in his beard area. He has started scratching his entire body and more specifically the scabs. We took Pilot back to the vet this morning and she stated that she thinks its seborrhea.
I'm not too positive that it is seborrhea since I'm not sure if its common in yorkies, as I have never heard it being common, nor do I know/seen any dogs with this disorder.

Do any yorkies out there have seborrhea? What are their symptoms? How did your vet/you diagnose this disorder?

Please, any advice would help-

Thanks for your time reading,

.amy.
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Old 06-09-2010, 05:48 PM   #2
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Hi Amy here is a link from the Merck Vet Manual it may help explain the issue. Hope it helps

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/73200.htm

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Old 06-09-2010, 05:59 PM   #3
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I personally would take mine to a dermatologist as what you are describing sounds more like demodex mange to me. Can you send a pic? Did they rule out demodex?

Seborrhea is tied to sebaceous gland excretion which is tied to hypothyroid so i am familiar with that and the dog will have a certain odor with this.

There are seborrhea shampoos etc but I really think you need to have a derm check your baby out before it gets worse They will know exactly what it is as they deal with skin issues only.
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Old 06-09-2010, 05:59 PM   #4
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http://http://www.merckvetmanual.com...m/bc/73200.htm
Seborrhea is a skin disease in dogs that is characterized by a defect in keratinization or cornification. Clinically, it results in increased scale formation, occasionally excessive greasiness of the skin and hair coat, and often secondary inflammation and infection.
Primary seborrhea is an inherited skin disorder characterized by faulty keratinization or cornification of the epidermis, hair follicle epithelium, or claws. There is usually a familial history of seborrhea, suggesting genetic factors are involved. The disease begins at a young age (usually <18-24 mo) and progresses throughout the dog’s life. A diagnosis of generalized primary idiopathic seborrhea should be reserved for dogs in which all possible underlying causes of seborrhea have been ruled out.
Most seborrheic dogs have secondary seborrhea, in which a primary underlying disease predisposes to excessive scale, crusting, or oiliness, often accompanied by superficial pyoderma, Malassezia infection, and alopecia. The most common underlying causes are endocrinopathies and allergies. The goal is to identify and treat any underlying cause of the seborrhea. Palliative therapies that do not compromise the diagnostic evaluation should be instituted concurrently to provide as much immediate relief as possible for the dog.
Underlying diseases may present with seborrhea as the primary clinical problem. The signalment (age, breed, sex) and history may provide clues in diagnosing the underlying cause. Allergies are more likely to be the underlying cause if the age of onset is <5 yr, whereas an endocrinopathy or neoplasia is more likely if the seborrhea begins in middle-aged or older dogs.
The degree of pruritus should also be noted. If pruritus is minimal, endocrinopathies, other internal diseases, neoplasia, or certain diseases limited to the skin (eg, demodicosis or sebaceous adenitis) should be ruled out. If pruritus is significant, allergies and pruritic ectoparasitic diseases (eg, scabies, fleas) should be considered. The presence of pruritus does not rule out nonpruritic disease as the underlying cause, because the presence of a pyoderma or the inflammation from the excess scale can cause significant pruritus. However, a lack of pruritus helps to rule out allergies, scabies, and other pruritic diseases as the underlying etiology.
Other important considerations include the presence of polyuria, polydipsia, or polyphagia; heat-seeking behavior; abnormal estrous cycles; occurrence of pyoderma; the influence of seasonality; diet; response to previous medications (including corticosteroids, antibiotics, antihistamines, or topical treatments); zoonosis or contagion; and the environment. The duration and severity of disease as well as level of owner frustration are important factors in determining the aggressiveness of the diagnostic plan.
A thorough physical examination, including internal organ systems and a comprehensive dermatologic examination, is the first step in identifying the underlying cause. The dermatologic examination should document the type and distribution of the lesions; the presence of alopecia; and the degree of odor, scale, oiliness, and texture of the skin and hair coat. The presence of follicular papules, pustules, crusts, and epidermal collarettes usually indicates the existence of a superficial pyoderma. Hyperpigmentation indicates a chronic skin irritation (such as pruritus, infection, or inflammation), and lichenification indicates chronic pruritus. Yeast ( Malassezia spp ) infection should always be considered when evaluating a seborrheic dog.
Secondary infection plays a significant role in most seborrheic dogs. The sebum and keratinization abnormalities that are common in seborrheic dogs frequently provide ideal conditions for bacterial and yeast infections. The self-trauma that occurs in pruritic animals increases the likelihood of a secondary infection. Often, coagulase-positive Staphylococcus spp or Malassezia spp are present. The infections add to the pruritus and are usually responsible for a significant amount of the inflammation, papules, crusts, alopecia, and scales.
One of the first diagnostic steps is to obtain superficial cytology of the affected areas to identify the quantity and type of bacteria or yeast present. If numerous cocci and neutrophils are present, pyoderma is likely. In addition to systemic therapy, topical shampoos will aid in the treatment of secondary infections. In a seborrheic dog with pruritus, the infection may cause all or most of the pruritus. Instead of considering allergies as the underlying disease in these dogs, nonpruritic diseases (eg, endocrinopathies) may be uncovered by addressing the infections.
After the infections have been addressed, other diagnostic tests that should be considered include multiple deep skin scrapings, dermatophyte culture, impression smears, trichograms, and flea combing. If these are negative or normal, a CBC, serum biochemical profile, and complete urinalysis will complete the minimum database. Examples of diagnostic clues include increased serum alkaline phosphatase (which may suggest hyperadrenocorticism or previous steroid therapy), cholesterol (which may suggest hypothyroidism), blood glucose (which suggests diabetes mellitus), and BUN or creatinine (which may suggest renal disease).

Palliative is needed to keep the dog comfortable while the underlying cause is identified and secondary skin diseases are corrected. For treatment of pyoderma, an antibiotic with known sensitivity against Staphylococcus intermedius should be appropriate. Malassezia may be treated systemically with ketoconazole. In addition to addressing any secondary infections, antipruritic therapy and shampoo therapy are usually needed to help control the seborrhea and speed the return of the skin to a normal state. Shampoo therapy can decrease the number of bacteria and yeast on the skin surface, the amount of scale and sebum present, and the level of pruritus; it also helps normalize the epidermal turnover rate.
In the past, seborrhea has been classified as seborrhea sicca (dry seborrhea), seborrhea oleosa (oily seborrhea), or seborrheic dermatitis (inflammatory seborrhea). This scheme can still be used in determining the type of shampoo needed; however, most seborrheic animals have varying degrees of all 3 of these classifications of seborrhea.
Most products contained in shampoos can be classified based on their effects as keratolytic, keratoplastic, emollient, antipruritic, or antimicrobial. Keratolytic products include sulfur, salicylic acid, tar, selenium sulfide, propylene glycol, fatty acids, and benzoyl peroxide. They remove stratum corneum cells by causing cellular damage that results in ballooning and sloughing of the surface keratinocytes. This reduces the scale and makes the skin feel softer. Shampoos containing keratolytic products frequently exacerbate scaling during the first 14 days of treatment, due to the sloughed scales getting caught in the hair coat. The scales will be removed by continued bathing, but owners should be warned that the scaling often worsens initially. Keratoplastic products help normalize keratinization and reduce scale formation by slowing down epidermal basal cell mitosis. Tar, sulfur, salicylic acid, and selenium sulfide are examples of keratoplastic agents. Emollients (eg, lactic acid, sodium lactate, lanolin, and numerous oils, such as corn, coconut, peanut, and cottonseed) are indicated for any scaling dermatosis because they reduce transepidermal water loss. They work best after the skin has been rehydrated and are excellent adjunct products after shampooing. Antibacterial agents include benzoyl peroxide, chlorhexidine, iodine, ethyl lactate, and triclosan. Antifungal ingredients include chlorhexidine, sulfur, iodine, ketoconazole, and miconazole. Boric and acetic acids are also used as topical antimicrobials.
It is important to know how individual shampoo ingredients act, as well as any additive or synergistic effects they have, because most shampoos are a combination of products. The selection of appropriate antiseborrheic shampoo therapy is based on hair coat and skin scaling and oiliness, of which there are 4 general presentations: 1) mild scaling and no oiliness, 2) moderate to marked scaling and mild oiliness (the most common), 3) moderate to marked scaling and moderate oiliness, 4) mild scaling and marked oiliness. These categories are intended to guide the type of shampoo therapy necessary; however, all factors for each individual dog should be considered.
Dogs with mild scaling and no oiliness need mild shampoos that are gentle, cleansing, hypoallergenic, or moisturizing. These shampoos are indicated for dogs that have mild seborrheic changes or that are irritated by medicated shampoos, or for owners that tend to bathe the dog too often. These products often contain emollient oils, lanolin, lactic acid, urea, glycerin, or fatty acids. Emollient sprays or rinses are often used in conjunction with these shampoos.
Dogs with moderate to marked scaling and mild oiliness should be bathed with shampoos that contain sulfur and salicylic acid. Both agents are keratolytic, keratoplastic, antibacterial, and antipruritic. In addition, sulfur is antiparasitic and antifungal. Some of these shampoos also contain ingredients that are antibacterial, antifungal, and moisturizing, which can help control secondary pyoderma, Malassezia spp , and excessive scaling. Shampoos that contain ethyl lactate lower the cutaneous pH (which has a bacteriostatic or bactericidal action by inhibiting bacterial lipases), normalize keratinization, solubilize fats, and decrease sebaceous secretions. These actions also result in potent antibacterial activity.
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Old 06-09-2010, 05:59 PM   #5
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Hi Amy here is a link from the Merck Vet Manual it may help explain the issue. Hope it helps

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/73200.htm

Hi! Thanks for the link! I'm just trying to rule out other skin problems like mites, bacterial infections, any other form of skin disorders, etc. I know I do have the option to take him to a doggie dermatologist but I trying to rule out any other problems before we get to that point. Any other advice would be helpful!

.amy.
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Old 06-09-2010, 06:01 PM   #6
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I personally would take mine to a dermatologist as what you are describing sounds more like demodex mange to me. Can you send a pic? Did they rule out demodex?

Seborrhea is tied to sebaceous gland excretion which is tied to hypothyroid so i am familiar with that and the dog will have a certain odor with this.

There are seborrhea shampoos etc but I really think you need to have a derm check your baby out before it gets worse They will know exactly what it is as they deal with skin issues only.
Hi! Im going to take a picture of it right now and post! I've never heard of demodex...Just googled it tho! hmm...Skin allergies are so annoying!

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Old 06-09-2010, 06:10 PM   #7
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yep been dealing with skin allergies for 5 1/2 years now
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Old 06-09-2010, 06:24 PM   #8
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Here is a picture - Sorry if its not clear but he is very playful and didnt want to hold still!

These are the sores that keep spreading and there is no odor just itchy!

.amy.
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Old 06-09-2010, 07:06 PM   #9
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Here is a picture - Sorry if its not clear but he is very playful and didnt want to hold still!

These are the sores that keep spreading and there is no odor just itchy!

.amy.
yeah that does not look good and I would go to a dermatologist asap - I can look in a couple dermatology books I have tonight when i get home from work but that does not look like seborrhea though as dd has hypothyroid and has sebaceous gland excretion and it looks different. i think I have a pic of it too so hang tight shutting down at work now and if you can get some other pics too close up with the macro on camera that would help but i think i get the idea. Almost looks fungal to me. Did they do a skin culture and send to lab on this ? I will post pic on my allerdog group and vet group to see if anyone has seen this before as well
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Old 06-10-2010, 02:23 AM   #10
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Our vet did a skin culture and scraping. The lab results so far have been negative and the vet could not find any signs of bugs or mites under the microscope. She prescribed him a shampoo called Sebolux and Pyoben gel for the sores. I'm suppose to give a bath 2-3 times a week and use another spray he gave us for moisturizing after the bath.
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Old 06-10-2010, 07:57 AM   #11
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Our vet did a skin culture and scraping. The lab results so far have been negative and the vet could not find any signs of bugs or mites under the microscope. She prescribed him a shampoo called Sebolux and Pyoben gel for the sores. I'm suppose to give a bath 2-3 times a week and use another spray he gave us for moisturizing after the bath.
It looks to me more like ringworm but I would not mess with a vet at this point as sounds like they are guessing. I would go to a dermatologist asap so it does not get worse. Do the sores look like this dog's nose?

Ringworm in Dogs

looks like you have a couple in virginia

https://www.acvd.org/

the first consult is usually $160 and follow ups are usually $80 in california. They may be cheaper where you live.

Also shampoos and sprays are returnable so call manufacturer and ask if it is not seborhea so you did not waste your money on those things. If you tell vet that you called manufacturer and they said it is returnable they will refund you so be prepared as usually they will say it is non-returnable. I learned about this after vets guessing on dd selling me tons of different shampoos and sprays. I finally just went to dermatologist as if you have dogs with skin and allergy issues you really should be dealing with a dermatologist. It was the best decision I ever made for her.

Last edited by dwerten; 06-10-2010 at 07:59 AM.
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:35 PM   #12
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My Trouble has been diagnoised with Seborreah too. He will be three in December and started having skin issues last October. He has the oily type. He has itchy skin, but it is oily. He does get an odor too. We have tried special shampoos and there were no other issues that the vet could find, so we had him tested for allergies. His tests came back yesterday. I am still reading through this book and trying to understand it all. He is allergic almost everything. The vet thinks that his Seborreah is linked to his food allergies. I don't know for sure if changing his food will clear it up, but I will keep ya posted. You may want to get your baby tested too.
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:43 PM   #13
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My Trouble has been diagnoised with Seborreah too. He will be three in December and started having skin issues last October. He has the oily type. He has itchy skin, but it is oily. He does get an odor too. We have tried special shampoos and there were no other issues that the vet could find, so we had him tested for allergies. His tests came back yesterday. I am still reading through this book and trying to understand it all. He is allergic almost everything. The vet thinks that his Seborreah is linked to his food allergies. I don't know for sure if changing his food will clear it up, but I will keep ya posted. You may want to get your baby tested too.
Did you have a 6 panel thyroid done to rule out hypothyroidism?

skin issues and odor can be tied to thyroid-- the thyroid is the bodies thermometer
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:49 PM   #14
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Yes we have had two thyroid tests ran. He had a full panel of tests when he started having skin problems, then they ran another lists of tests at UT along with the allergy tests. Everything else came back within normal limits.
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:51 PM   #15
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Yes we have had two thyroid tests ran. He had a full panel of tests when he started having skin problems, then they ran another lists of tests at UT along with the allergy tests. Everything else came back within normal limits.
So glad you already ruled that one out

what are you feeding?
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