Does a Raw food diet have too much protein? - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Justinka13 · 12-09-2009, 07:08 AM

Hi everyone,

I have a 5 yr old, 5 lb yorkie who was diagnosed with slightly elevated bile acid at about 30 and has a bladder stone.

He needs an operation to get this stone out but first we have to get his weight up.

I was told to put him on the Hills Medical preventative, but he lost interest and i noticed he also lost muscle mass and weight of course.

I have been feeding him raw for 2 weeks now. His energy levels are much different, hes more excited to eat etc.

BUT here is my question if he has a liver problem (not shunts already ruled out with diagnosis) but possibly maybe have a liver defect since bile acids are elevated.

I want to know is RAW food to high in protein causing stress on the kidneys, liver, bladdder, which i understand are all related together??

Please help!

tjdmom · 12-09-2009, 08:37 AM

Actually a raw diet has the perfect blend of protein for a carnivore....
Here's an interesting article about protein, not sure if you are wanting a low protein diet for some health issue?...
Kidney Disease

Justinka13 · 12-09-2009, 08:53 AM

I just love the whole concept of raw, it not only looks healthy but the ingredient list you can go wrnog. Its all natural although i would think if you are feeding a balanced, which would be raw meat, bones and veggies with an omega suppliment should be a create balance.

Thank you. I will read this article

PrincessDiana · 12-09-2009, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justinka13

I just love the whole concept of raw, it not only looks healthy but the ingredient list you can go wrnog. Its all natural although i would think if you are feeding a balanced, which would be raw meat, bones and veggies with an omega suppliment should be a create balance.

Thank you. I will read this article

Acutally, you need to also add organs (particularly secreting organs and liver) and take out the vegetables to be balanced.

Let us know if you have any questions! There are a ton of raw feeders on YT!

sushidoodidoo · 12-09-2009, 10:47 AM

I am very intrigued by the raw diet, but a friend of mine that put her little pom on raw food diet started having major problems, including bloody diarrhea, and they thought it was probably salmonella.

Any safety tips that should be considered to avoid such problems? I think the idea and logic behind raw diet is great, but in reality and today's lifestyles (you can't always get everything fresh) it might be a bit tricky to pull off. What do yoou guys think?

Justinka13 · 12-09-2009, 11:31 AM

That article was amazing! Thank you for recomending it. Wow a ton of information and a whole different outlook on Science Diet/Hill's diets. I am convinced that because my poor Teddy was put on the preventative/medical diet that was lower in protein developed metabloic acidosis, which causes dogs to lose weight and muscle mass.

Now that i am feeding raw i can already see the difference in behaviour, more energetic and hopefully he will gain more weight.

Also to answer the question above regarding putting in organs..i am currently feeding teddy Healthy paws and it has meat, organs, veggies, bones in the proper portions to make it nutritionally balanced.

Can anyone give me advice, i read that adding salt will help a dog drink more water esp those dogs with bladder problems or stones in my case.

Please any feed back raw food feeders? Do you add a sprinkle of salt? since salt is also needed in every diet???

Justinka13 · 12-09-2009, 11:34 AM

Also i read in the article that salmon oil is the best source of omega 3 to give a dog esp those with kidney/bladder problems. Flaxseed oil has omega 6 and can be harmful according to the above kindey article posted by tjdmom btw thanks again.

I recommend you read overall it gives you an understanding about a dogs body, nutrition and an outlook on commercial foods.

sushidoodidoo · 12-09-2009, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justinka13

Also i read in the article that salmon oil is the best source of omega 3 to give a dog esp those with kidney/bladder problems. Flaxseed oil has omega 6 and can be harmful according to the above kindey article posted by tjdmom btw thanks again.

I recommend you read overall it gives you an understanding about a dogs body, nutrition and an outlook on commercial foods.

Cod liver oil is also a no no for dogs with kidney problems.

WinstonMom · 12-09-2009, 12:18 PM

A friend of mine has a large raw dog food company here in Canada. Her website is a wealth of info on raw feeding and raw food. The information center on her website has a lot of info about feeding dogs with certain diseases. Website is Carnivora.

Justinka13 · 12-09-2009, 12:40 PM

Great. Thank you

silverjoy · 12-09-2009, 12:59 PM

I have been feeding raw now for 5 months. My 2 are thriving on it. No problems to report

tjdmom · 12-09-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sushidoodidoo

I am very intrigued by the raw diet, but a friend of mine that put her little pom on raw food diet started having major problems, including bloody diarrhea, and they thought it was probably salmonella.

Any safety tips that should be considered to avoid such problems? I think the idea and logic behind raw diet is great, but in reality and today's lifestyles (you can't always get everything fresh) it might be a bit tricky to pull off. What do yoou guys think?

Don't worry about how fresh things are, believe me.... Here is another really good link that talks about bacteria:
Myths About Raw: Will the bacteria in raw meat hurt my dog?

Ellie May · 12-09-2009, 07:26 PM

While there are different opinions on this, it is generally recommended not to feed a liver compromised dog raw food. Their immune systems are more likely to be compromised than others and there are better dietary choices. Feeding certain types of meat is just not good for dogs who have some liver problems. While your Yorkie may not have a shunt, MVD is still possible. If the rx diet wasn't working out, then I wouldn't hesitate to go to something else. There are lots of other choices though...

lukes · 12-09-2009, 08:22 PM

I sat down a holistic vet before with friends who dogs had calcium oxalate bladder stones. The holistic vet said first thing first, get rid of the bags and cans of "Purina NF" their other vet prescribed. That just masks the problem and doesn't address the root cause of the issue.

Then instructed them to put the dogs on pre-packaged "Raw" (Saying it's not the level of protein that's causes the issues, it's the digestibility of the protein). Meat proteins are way more digestible then proteins derived from corn. He said, I'm not going to say your dog will never develop stones again, but I will say, that I seen dogs develop stones while eating those special diet.

If you have the ability, the only additional thing I will suggest is don't feed your dog one time a day, break it up, in case he does have a liver/kidney issue, you don't want to overwork it.

There's a lot of different opinions out their, but keep in mind many paths can lead to the same endpoint.

Justinka13 · 12-10-2009, 05:55 AM

WOW! You dont understand how releived i am. First of all as soon as the vet prescribed the hills medical preventative, i just knew it was not good, especially when i researched the ingredients i.e. BHA causes cancer? why feed my little guy this stuff. anyway i did try it but i did not see any improvement.

i did feed 3 times a day small portions of this perscription diet with a vitamin (milk thistle and B vitamin liquid) supplement. Teddy ate the food at the beginning 3 times a day and then less.

I noticed his muscles getting smaller and now hes super skinny with nothing but bones. maybe i am exaggerating but i know my dog right?

so after hours and hours of research buying books including the one i bought yesterday "The Nature of Animal Healing" by Dr. Martin Goldstein (holistic vet/was on oprah). I cant put this book down.

Thanks for making me realize that i am most likely doing the right thing. Upon researching i read that liver/kidney probs in dogs, feed high quality but low density proteins, meaning easily digested. And feed more frequently.

So as i have been doing with the HILLS food i am feeding teddy lamb, turkey, chicken raw food pre-packaged medalitons (with raw meat, bones, veggies, and omega oils) from healthy paws with probiotic/enzyme sprinkled on top 3 times a day and hes doing AMAZING so far. He wakes up and waits for me to feed him. Although he did have slight soft stool, i added a little bit of natural pumpkin with his food and will feed it prob today until i see his stool getting more firm.

not only is his energy up, hes more playful and is starting to look like hes gaining weight.

His bladdder stone is tiny i spoke to my vet yesterday and again they warned raw food and slamonella, however the article i read recommened but tjbmom (see above) talking about the kidneys changed my perspective.

I LOVE RAW food.

Sorry for the long post, i am just so relieved. I will continue to let you knwo how teddy is doing before and after he gets his bladder stone operation. But first we gotta get his weight up.

Also i am going to see a holistic vet next week, very excited!

12-09-2009, 07:08 AM	#1
Justinka13 Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: toronto, Ontario Posts: 25	Does a Raw food diet have too much protein? Hi everyone, I have a 5 yr old, 5 lb yorkie who was diagnosed with slightly elevated bile acid at about 30 and has a bladder stone. He needs an operation to get this stone out but first we have to get his weight up. I was told to put him on the Hills Medical preventative, but he lost interest and i noticed he also lost muscle mass and weight of course. I have been feeding him raw for 2 weeks now. His energy levels are much different, hes more excited to eat etc. BUT here is my question if he has a liver problem (not shunts already ruled out with diagnosis) but possibly maybe have a liver defect since bile acids are elevated. I want to know is RAW food to high in protein causing stress on the kidneys, liver, bladdder, which i understand are all related together?? Please help!

12-09-2009, 10:47 AM	#5
sushidoodidoo YT Addict Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 298	I am very intrigued by the raw diet, but a friend of mine that put her little pom on raw food diet started having major problems, including bloody diarrhea, and they thought it was probably salmonella. Any safety tips that should be considered to avoid such problems? I think the idea and logic behind raw diet is great, but in reality and today's lifestyles (you can't always get everything fresh) it might be a bit tricky to pull off. What do yoou guys think? __________________ Proud mommy to: Sushi(Yorkie)Mr. Big(Maltese)Missy(ShihTzu)Zero (Chihuahua)KitCat(Himmy)Casper(Tabby)

12-09-2009, 07:26 PM	#13
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	While there are different opinions on this, it is generally recommended not to feed a liver compromised dog raw food. Their immune systems are more likely to be compromised than others and there are better dietary choices. Feeding certain types of meat is just not good for dogs who have some liver problems. While your Yorkie may not have a shunt, MVD is still possible. If the rx diet wasn't working out, then I wouldn't hesitate to go to something else. There are lots of other choices though... __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

12-10-2009, 05:55 AM	#15
Justinka13 Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: toronto, Ontario Posts: 25	WOW! You dont understand how releived i am. First of all as soon as the vet prescribed the hills medical preventative, i just knew it was not good, especially when i researched the ingredients i.e. BHA causes cancer? why feed my little guy this stuff. anyway i did try it but i did not see any improvement. i did feed 3 times a day small portions of this perscription diet with a vitamin (milk thistle and B vitamin liquid) supplement. Teddy ate the food at the beginning 3 times a day and then less. I noticed his muscles getting smaller and now hes super skinny with nothing but bones. maybe i am exaggerating but i know my dog right? so after hours and hours of research buying books including the one i bought yesterday "The Nature of Animal Healing" by Dr. Martin Goldstein (holistic vet/was on oprah). I cant put this book down. Thanks for making me realize that i am most likely doing the right thing. Upon researching i read that liver/kidney probs in dogs, feed high quality but low density proteins, meaning easily digested. And feed more frequently. So as i have been doing with the HILLS food i am feeding teddy lamb, turkey, chicken raw food pre-packaged medalitons (with raw meat, bones, veggies, and omega oils) from healthy paws with probiotic/enzyme sprinkled on top 3 times a day and hes doing AMAZING so far. He wakes up and waits for me to feed him. Although he did have slight soft stool, i added a little bit of natural pumpkin with his food and will feed it prob today until i see his stool getting more firm. not only is his energy up, hes more playful and is starting to look like hes gaining weight. His bladdder stone is tiny i spoke to my vet yesterday and again they warned raw food and slamonella, however the article i read recommened but tjbmom (see above) talking about the kidneys changed my perspective. I LOVE RAW food. Sorry for the long post, i am just so relieved. I will continue to let you knwo how teddy is doing before and after he gets his bladder stone operation. But first we gotta get his weight up. Also i am going to see a holistic vet next week, very excited! Last edited by Justinka13; 12-10-2009 at 05:58 AM.

12-09-2009, 08:37 AM	#2
tjdmom Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: upstate ny Posts: 5,847	Actually a raw diet has the perfect blend of protein for a carnivore.... Here's an interesting article about protein, not sure if you are wanting a low protein diet for some health issue?... Kidney Disease

12-09-2009, 08:53 AM	#3
Justinka13 Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: toronto, Ontario Posts: 25	I just love the whole concept of raw, it not only looks healthy but the ingredient list you can go wrnog. Its all natural although i would think if you are feeding a balanced, which would be raw meat, bones and veggies with an omega suppliment should be a create balance. Thank you. I will read this article

12-09-2009, 11:31 AM	#6
Justinka13 Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: toronto, Ontario Posts: 25	That article was amazing! Thank you for recomending it. Wow a ton of information and a whole different outlook on Science Diet/Hill's diets. I am convinced that because my poor Teddy was put on the preventative/medical diet that was lower in protein developed metabloic acidosis, which causes dogs to lose weight and muscle mass. Now that i am feeding raw i can already see the difference in behaviour, more energetic and hopefully he will gain more weight. Also to answer the question above regarding putting in organs..i am currently feeding teddy Healthy paws and it has meat, organs, veggies, bones in the proper portions to make it nutritionally balanced. Can anyone give me advice, i read that adding salt will help a dog drink more water esp those dogs with bladder problems or stones in my case. Please any feed back raw food feeders? Do you add a sprinkle of salt? since salt is also needed in every diet???

12-09-2009, 11:34 AM	#7
Justinka13 Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: toronto, Ontario Posts: 25	Also i read in the article that salmon oil is the best source of omega 3 to give a dog esp those with kidney/bladder problems. Flaxseed oil has omega 6 and can be harmful according to the above kindey article posted by tjdmom btw thanks again. I recommend you read overall it gives you an understanding about a dogs body, nutrition and an outlook on commercial foods.

12-09-2009, 12:18 PM	#9
WinstonMom YT Addict Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 384	A friend of mine has a large raw dog food company here in Canada. Her website is a wealth of info on raw feeding and raw food. The information center on her website has a lot of info about feeding dogs with certain diseases. Website is Carnivora.

12-09-2009, 12:40 PM	#10
Justinka13 Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: toronto, Ontario Posts: 25	Great. Thank you

12-09-2009, 12:59 PM	#11
silverjoy YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: sunny california Posts: 968	I have been feeding raw now for 5 months. My 2 are thriving on it. No problems to report

12-09-2009, 08:22 PM	#14
lukes Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Coral Springs, FL Posts: 142	I sat down a holistic vet before with friends who dogs had calcium oxalate bladder stones. The holistic vet said first thing first, get rid of the bags and cans of "Purina NF" their other vet prescribed. That just masks the problem and doesn't address the root cause of the issue. Then instructed them to put the dogs on pre-packaged "Raw" (Saying it's not the level of protein that's causes the issues, it's the digestibility of the protein). Meat proteins are way more digestible then proteins derived from corn. He said, I'm not going to say your dog will never develop stones again, but I will say, that I seen dogs develop stones while eating those special diet. If you have the ability, the only additional thing I will suggest is don't feed your dog one time a day, break it up, in case he does have a liver/kidney issue, you don't want to overwork it. There's a lot of different opinions out their, but keep in mind many paths can lead to the same endpoint.