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Old 05-01-2019, 08:22 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 View Post
No the amount for our size was taken. My dad has continued to use it because he has blood pressure issues and is hopping he can get his blood pressure down. He is currently on 3 blood pressure meds and lots like 150 pounds and itís still high. My mom tried it for pain. It is very very good for joint pain and showing well in dog studies for joint pain but like everything it doesnít work for everyone.
you missed the point
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Old 05-01-2019, 11:31 PM   #32
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I've thought about this so much since you posted this thread, Taylor. Like Linda implied, CBD oil's many claims does remind me of the snake oil or wonder tonics of old, said to cure everything from toothache, arthritis, liverishness, cancer, malaise and migraines et al. Still, when a dog is old, hurting from arthritis and thus more inactive, getting fat, not living its best life at all, Yorkie tail carried down instead of up, not that many years left, could a trial of CBD oil do more good than harm?

I'm scared to death of black-market drugs and with OTC drugs, there is every chance you could have a run of straight black-market product introduced into the line, the drug preparation cut with China-manufactured, cheap fentanyl or asbestos-laced talcum powder or other harmful products.

But say you use a brand of CBD oil known to several others who've used it on their dog(s) so far safely for over a year, their dogs apparently thriving and living the life again, would it be worth it to try it on an old dog just to see if it helped the way it has Callie? I've read that CBD oil often does test to having minute amounts of THC in it - trace to .03% or so - could that be toxic to a 7 lb. Yorkie over time? But if it offers an old dog 2-3 years of a better life before any side effects kick in, would it be worth it to the dog? I mean if a dog cannot live a fun, full, free dog's life without activity-altering pain, I don't want to be responsible for keeping that dog alive to suffer and live a less than carefree life as it watches from its bed as others go about living it up, the suffering dog feeling left out, acting sad and deprived. So wouldn't it be worth it to offer that dog 2 - 3 years of a better life than it would have without it - if indeed it works as Taylor and others say? Or is the alternative arthritis drugs and pain medications with all their side effects and problems of constipation, etc.
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Last edited by yorkietalkjilly; 05-01-2019 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 05-02-2019, 06:33 AM   #33
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First of all, Taylor didn't start the thread. The OP asked if anyone had experience using CBD and asked if it was safe. I don't have experience, but did decide to share because I don't believe the safety of this use in domestic pets has been properly researched.

What the OP wants to use it for is not something I have seen claims about, but who knows ...someone, somewhere might swear it makes growths go away and/or shrink. The OP needs to consult with his/her vet.

Taylor mentioned an AKC study so I looked at their website and they clearly state the following:

Currently, there has been no formal study on how CBD affects dogs.

and....

While there’s no definitive scientific data on using CBD to treat dogs, there’s anecdotal evidence from dog owners suggesting it can treat pain, especially neuropathic pain, as well as helping to control seizures.

According to Dr. Klein, CBD is also used because of its anti-inflammatory properties, cardiac benefits, anti-nausea effects, appetite stimulation, anti-anxiety impact, and for possible anti-cancer benefits, although there’s no conclusive data on this use.


-----

If Taylor wants to continue to take this personally, there isn't much more I can say. My reason for posting was to share my concerns .... that is ALL.

Right now it seems to be like the Wild Wild West in terms of who is selling this stuff and where they are selling it. As to the amount of THC in the oils, all I am saying is it is NOT REGULATED and there is always THC .. could be trace amount, could be more. I don't trust things like that. I believe it is a matter of time before something will happen and the FDA will be involved.

Anyway....will I use this for my pups? Again, I say NO. In my opinion, the jury is still out. I don't use myself or my pups as guinea pigs. If that comment offends anyone, just realize that when something isn't properly researched and you are going by anecdotal evidence, essentially you are a guinea pig.

Last edited by ladyjane; 05-02-2019 at 06:35 AM.
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Old 05-02-2019, 09:24 AM   #34
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There is THC in it Taylor. It may be a small amount, but it IS there. It isn't regulated which is a major concern to me.

From the AKC website:
Risks of Using CBD
The safety and risks of using CBD for dogs have not yet been researched. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has not approved CBD and has not issued a dosing chart. Therefore, we do not know what size dosage would be toxic. Any medication or supplement carries the risk of a reaction. It is always advisable, when giving your dog something new, to start out with small amounts and then closely monitor the effects. And always check with your veterinarian first.
Because we know all the meds the FDA approves are all safe.......
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Old 05-02-2019, 09:36 AM   #35
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This is my last post on the subject unless someone else has questions. I can take a picture of the article in the AKC magazine that comes out stating they are funding a study if necessary. I have done my research massively. Like I have said before Callie is almost 12 any lasting future issues would be a mute point. I use a human grade product that is not a black market product or from China or anything else. Personally I have had this issue with my grandmother there are old school beliefs some people just canít get over. Thatís fine whatever. The FDA is a joke and I think deep down we all know that so many of the things they approve have been extremely dangerous and caused big issues. Callie has a lot of life in her but her liver couldnít take more pain medicine and I didnít want to put her to sleep just because she has joint issues. I donít think that many people could believe the change unless they saw it themselves. I am NOT using my dog as a guinea pig never have and never would. I am an amazing dog owner that stands strong by my choice at make Callieís life better.
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Old 05-02-2019, 12:56 PM   #36
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There have been studies done and even one that the AKC is funding. This isnít a new thing itís been around for hundreds of years. CBD oil without THC is hemp oil.
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Because we know all the meds the FDA approves are all safe.......
I quoted it from akc.org because you said there were studies and that the AKC funded one.

My point wasn't to debate FDA approvals....but, I can tell you we would be in a lot of trouble if not for the FDA. Maybe not perfect, but beats letting people just put anything out there.
That is actually my concern with all the CBD stuff going on.
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Old 05-02-2019, 01:02 PM   #37
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This is my last post on the subject unless someone else has questions. I can take a picture of the article in the AKC magazine that comes out stating they are funding a study if necessary. I have done my research massively. Like I have said before Callie is almost 12 any lasting future issues would be a mute point. I use a human grade product that is not a black market product or from China or anything else. Personally I have had this issue with my grandmother there are old school beliefs some people just canít get over. Thatís fine whatever. The FDA is a joke and I think deep down we all know that so many of the things they approve have been extremely dangerous and caused big issues. Callie has a lot of life in her but her liver couldnít take more pain medicine and I didnít want to put her to sleep just because she has joint issues. I donít think that many people could believe the change unless they saw it themselves. I am NOT using my dog as a guinea pig never have and never would. I am an amazing dog owner that stands strong by my choice at make Callieís life better.
No one said you are a bad pet owner. I know how good you are to your pups. You are taking something personal here and it has nothing to do with me.

You talk about massive research and yet there is NO valid study I have seen regarding the safety of CBD oil in pets. Perhaps you could just share one instead of getting mad?

The guinea pig comment was simply saying that if something isn't approved for use in small dogs I won't use it. I stand by my comment...there are SO many products that people swear by and then find out LATER were a problem. I have for YEARS commented on this forum about the hoopla about grains in food saying I fed my dogs grains only to hear how bad they are because people believed the human dentist who ranks foods. NOW there are dogs suffering from cardiac issues due to grain free foods.

Reading anecdotal evidence online is NOT research. I am sorry you taking this personal. I am not going to ignore what I feel is important to say just to make you or anyone else I know and/or like happy.
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Old 05-03-2019, 03:43 PM   #38
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Point taken about the OP, Linda, and I feel like a ninny now. Guess I'd forgotten that as the thread progressed and should have said "posted in this thread" but worry has taken hold, not thinking so clearly.

Tibbe was diagnosed as having MVD when he was 5 or 6 after testing which stopped just short of a liver biopsy(not done because the veterinary nuclear radiologists who did his nuclear scan - forgot what it was called - very familiar with liver shunt didn't think his symptoms severe enough to warrant the testing procedure and his vet ER internal medicine consultant with her own vet practice in Dallas and his regular vet agreed), was treated with diet to see how he did and he favorably responded almost immediately. Probiotics also seemed to help him more than anything and now I think he might be able to eat non-prescription food though I'm too scared to try, just in case he gets very sick again.

Thing is, he began favoring his left shoulder/foreleg about 2 1/2 months ago, putting little weight on it, holding his left forepaw up and the same day his began carrying his little tail down. With a vet diagnosis of arthritis in the left shoulder, he is now being treated with chewable Rimadyl 25 mg. Even after being on it a month, off 2 weeks, re-favored his right foreleg again and is back on it x2 daily. He no longer favors the left leg but his little tail is still carried down so I'm looking for ways to progress. As long as I've known Tibbe, he's always had his tail up unless he's fearful so I'm very worried about what his future holds.

I worry his liver might not be able to tolerate much of the Rimadyl and think it might be worth trying CBD oil for him - but how do I know that drug won't damage his liver just as badly as Rimadyl? I don't as there are no studies that I know of to show one way or another what blood/urine values or scans show after using CBD oil for a certain time period. Wondering how to proceed after current 2 mos. supply of Rimadyl runs out.
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Old 05-03-2019, 07:50 PM   #39
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Point taken about the OP, Linda, and I feel like a ninny now. Guess I'd forgotten that as the thread progressed and should have said "posted in this thread" but worry has taken hold, not thinking so clearly.

Tibbe was diagnosed as having MVD when he was 5 or 6 after testing which stopped just short of a liver biopsy(not done because the veterinary nuclear radiologists who did his nuclear scan - forgot what it was called - very familiar with liver shunt didn't think his symptoms severe enough to warrant the testing procedure and his vet ER internal medicine consultant with her own vet practice in Dallas and his regular vet agreed), was treated with diet to see how he did and he favorably responded almost immediately. Probiotics also seemed to help him more than anything and now I think he might be able to eat non-prescription food though I'm too scared to try, just in case he gets very sick again.

Thing is, he began favoring his left shoulder/foreleg about 2 1/2 months ago, putting little weight on it, holding his left forepaw up and the same day his began carrying his little tail down. With a vet diagnosis of arthritis in the left shoulder, he is now being treated with chewable Rimadyl 25 mg. Even after being on it a month, off 2 weeks, re-favored his right foreleg again and is back on it x2 daily. He no longer favors the left leg but his little tail is still carried down so I'm looking for ways to progress. As long as I've known Tibbe, he's always had his tail up unless he's fearful so I'm very worried about what his future holds.

I worry his liver might not be able to tolerate much of the Rimadyl and think it might be worth trying CBD oil for him - but how do I know that drug won't damage his liver just as badly as Rimadyl? I don't as there are no studies that I know of to show one way or another what blood/urine values or scans show after using CBD oil for a certain time period. Wondering how to proceed after current 2 mos. supply of Rimadyl runs out.
You could always try it for a month and then do blood test to see how the liver numbers do. They did that to see how Callieís pain meds effect her liver so I figure you can do that with anything. I personally never came across liver issues on any of the stuff I read. I have heard the Rimadyl can be hard on the liver.
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Old 05-04-2019, 04:40 AM   #40
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Point taken about the OP, Linda, and I feel like a ninny now. Guess I'd forgotten that as the thread progressed and should have said "posted in this thread" but worry has taken hold, not thinking so clearly.

Tibbe was diagnosed as having MVD when he was 5 or 6 after testing which stopped just short of a liver biopsy(not done because the veterinary nuclear radiologists who did his nuclear scan - forgot what it was called - very familiar with liver shunt didn't think his symptoms severe enough to warrant the testing procedure and his vet ER internal medicine consultant with her own vet practice in Dallas and his regular vet agreed), was treated with diet to see how he did and he favorably responded almost immediately. Probiotics also seemed to help him more than anything and now I think he might be able to eat non-prescription food though I'm too scared to try, just in case he gets very sick again.

Thing is, he began favoring his left shoulder/foreleg about 2 1/2 months ago, putting little weight on it, holding his left forepaw up and the same day his began carrying his little tail down. With a vet diagnosis of arthritis in the left shoulder, he is now being treated with chewable Rimadyl 25 mg. Even after being on it a month, off 2 weeks, re-favored his right foreleg again and is back on it x2 daily. He no longer favors the left leg but his little tail is still carried down so I'm looking for ways to progress. As long as I've known Tibbe, he's always had his tail up unless he's fearful so I'm very worried about what his future holds.

I worry his liver might not be able to tolerate much of the Rimadyl and think it might be worth trying CBD oil for him - but how do I know that drug won't damage his liver just as badly as Rimadyl? I don't as there are no studies that I know of to show one way or another what blood/urine values or scans show after using CBD oil for a certain time period. Wondering how to proceed after current 2 mos. supply of Rimadyl runs out.
Most of the time, if the liver is going to be affected it is not immediate. I suggest speaking with your vet .... there are other meds you could try. They are using a lot of gabapentin lately and getting good results. I personally would not go with something where there is only anecdotal evidence out there...until scientific based research is done, I would not use CBD oil. As I posted earlier....the jury is still out. I don't know how any one drug could possibly help all of the things people claim....the list is endless. I would want proof first...Taylor was offended by my guinea pig remark but it basically is what we do when we give things based on anecdotal evidence. Trial and error...I am afraid of errors.
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Old 05-04-2019, 05:58 PM   #41
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There have been limited studies. I'd found this info on Google Scholar a while back when I first started hearing about CBD oil being used for almost everything and I'd wondered if any kind of studies had been done on canines and found these when I searched "CBD oil pain relief study in canines":

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?h...dy+in+dogs&oq=

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...018.00165/full

Still not enough long-term, wide-ranging, large studies for me to go with it yet.
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Old 06-17-2019, 07:12 AM   #42
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lovestodream88, Taylor, Tibbe's still carrying his tail down, since February now and he's frightfully inactive, even feeble-acting at times. Terrier 'fight' seems to have left him. Vet still says basic dx. is arthritis from all the joint wear/tear from repetitive jumping up, down doggie stairs for 10 years to get on bed, couches and just changed him to Galliprant and Gabapentin(hated the way the stuff made me feel when I was on it for a while).

Texas gov just signed bill allowing sales of THP-free CBD oil in Texas so might try trial of it as long as I know there's a brand someone's successfully used for a while. Right now, Tibbe's not living a happy dog's life and his quality of life is about 50-60% what it was. Seems to be just largely existing, not happy-acting like he's always been. Might be time to take a chance to see if anything could help, even if it should cut time off his lifespan. No dog in right mind would want to live like he does lately. I would be willing to take a chance like that if it were me.

Taylor, would you share the brand name of CBD oil are you using for Callie?
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