Just a rant about vaccine reactions...
 

I'm angry, frustrated, sad, scared and just at a loss. My Bells had a rabies shot last Wednesday-8 days ago. I took her to the ER vet that night around midnight-- breathing heavy and panting with a bit of whimpering. They checked her and advised Tramadol. $350.00 - I'd pay anything to fix her- it didn't.

She took three doses and then I quit- they said if she looked better don't give. She has been spitting up yellow vomit- like egg yolk and once her food. She's eating and drinking, voiding normally. She is just panting at night and seems lethargic. Took her to vet today after waking up and vomiting yellow goo. Five incidents of this.

They gave her a shot of Cerania (?) anti nausea and anti inflam for gastro issue and sub Q fluid- that was at 2p today and now she's still laying around blah. Likely she's reacting negatively to the Cerania? Who knows? Who can you ask as they never tell you the truth anyway.

She's NEVER getting another vaccine. I just don't trust them or the doctors. They said she's vomiting because she has a sensitive stomach from the Tramadol or Rabies shot ( last Friday was her last dose) Who really knows what's wrong. We used to have dogs that ate crap food ( Purina or Gains Burger! ) never were vaccinated, never heartworm and they lived 17-20 years. EVERY pet I've ever taken to vet for treatments - winds up sick and dying. SOMETHING is wrong with this picture...

It's against the law not to do rabies. If your dog bites anyone or is suspected of biting anyone they will take your dog away if it is not up to date on rabies. Throwing up yellow is bile which means her stomach is empty normally. I really don't think that has anything to do with the rabies. Before vaccines you could give bendaryl and then ask about a pain medicine for a few days after. That is what we do with my mine who is sensitive to vaccines. I understand you are frustrated but vaccines are very important as well has heartworm medication and you don't really want to go without.

Titers
 

Vets, responsible vets, like Dr Dobias and many others, say that ONE vaccination if protective for life. I will do titers. This is ridiculous.

My dog has been sick since the vaccine- she won't play, is vomiting YELLOW EGG YOLK substance and a lot of it, not foamy bile and her food.

It's just too much. https://vaxxter.com/vet-explodes-over-pet-vaccines/

That doesn’t count for rabies and titers at this point are still useless and not excepted for rabies. They are still doing studies on rabies for how long it last. That yellow throw up is bile. Is she eating small meals through the day?

Well last September my kid had the flu vaccine and that cost over 300 dollars. She got so sick on the first shot and my vet wanted to give the second after a month. No way! When we were in Arizona I brought her to a new vet and that vet told me thank God you did not give her the second flu vaccine. I know rabies is a must but I surely believe you on what you are going through. I hope your baby starts feeling better. Susan

Titers are pretty much clinically useless - they can only show humoral immunity; they cannot show cellular immunity AT ALL.

The DOI (duration of immunity) for Distemper and Parvo can be 7yrs to life - those are the studies done by Dr. Dodd etc who has done all the challenge studies.

For kiddos who have a reaction to *any* vaccine - give Benadryl about 45mins prior to giving vaccine (you can do this at home). My vet has been a vet for over 30yrs and in that time - she has NEVER seen a vaccine reaction in an animal who was given Benadryl prior to the vaccine.

Bellymonster, I sure hope your little one has a good outcome to all of this. Sending hugs and hopes your way.

My so sweet Katy had a reaction to her last vaccine. She was 12/13 yrs at the time; had been given a Bordetella and a DAPP booster.

We spent several hours that night at a 24-hour clinic. She was diagnosed with an allergic reaction. While she had respiratory symptoms, discharge papers note she exhibited both a swollen face and redness of the skin.

Perhaps I'm not knowledgeable enough to understand some of this, but Katy's treatment by ER (snippets below) and the follow-up seem quite different than that which the BellymonsterMom described.

Katy's treatment and instruction:

**Clinic administered a shot of "Diphentydramine [Benadryl] and a steroid injection" (separately, DexamethasoneSP).

**At discharged told she should have 20 hours of non-stop observation and 72 hours of "strict rest and close observation."

**Instructed to administer oral Benadryl (6 mg) every "8 to 12 hours" for "2-3 days."

**Sent home with Rimadyl, described as a "non-steroidal anti-inflammatory," but told to WAIT seven days before administering that drug. Instruction re Rimadyl are further in bold typeface and highlighted include statement, "...since side effects, mainly gastric ulceration, can occur with concurrent use of NSAIDS and steroids."

Pardon typos.

Our vet only gives the rabies and the bordetella vaccines and we are fine with that. We can't take them to the local dog park because we don't have proof of the distemper shot but I can live with that. There is no doubt that some vaccines cause reactions with dogs, especially the smaller ones. I really appreciate that our vet reduces the dose for the vaccines as studies have shown that smaller dogs have more adverse events than larger dogs to vaccines. The pharmaceutical companies have a "one size fits all" approach to the dosage. One dosage may be for a 5-25 pound dog. So Sasha, who weighs 5.5 pounds, will get the same dose as a 25 pound dog? I am not a scientist but that is not right. Talk to your vet about the dosage especially for the smaller dogs.

So, I'm still trying to figure out why the ER response for Katy was so different than it was for Bells.

(1) Tramadol. From what I have read, Tramadol is a pain med. One article, "...Tramadol to hel Dogs with Pain and Anxiety" indicates this drug "can often be helpful with older canines suffering from joint pain ...can also help when an acute injury has occurred and short-term pain relief is needed for extreme pain." As to treatment for anxiety, article says, "there are typically safer options your vet will want to try first." Article goes on to report the drug has some serious side effect.

I wonder what dosage of Tramadol the vet prescribed for BellymonsterMom's Bells. Here's 2016 post by Joszacs, whose pup was 'scribed a far too high does of Tramadol, "...Tramadol for 5 pound Yorkie??"

(2) Cerenia. Hoping as well someone can tell me more about Cerenia. I read a couple of things about this drug, but those article talked about it helping prevent nausea and vomiting. Here's an article, "Cerenia" by Veterinary Place. Article includes a dosage/dog weight chart.

That sounds right for an allergic reaction. Pretty much what we went through with Joey just a different pain medicine.

Tramadol is actually very common to be given for pain. Callie has been giving it multiple times during her life. I’m guessing the ER did not think it was a actual vaccine reaction and just pain from the injection or they definitely would have given Benadryl because that is normal procedure and if the reaction is very severe they give a steroid as well. The Cerenia was given at a different time because her dog kept throwing up. Both Joey and Callie have been given an injection of that for nausea and vomiting.

Hi BellymonsterMom,

I'm not a vet (no surprise there), but did read this thread and other 'net items regarding Tramadol.

If I were in your shoes (I'm not), would probably headed down to see that ER vet/ER office. I'd want to know why Bells was treated for pain rather than an adverse reaction. Perhaps they have a sound explanation--one I'd wanna hear.

P.S. Katy's visit to the ER wasn't cheap, but it didn't approach $300.

In my opinion what the pup was showing was signs of pain more then a reaction so I'm sure they were just treating the pain. Cost ends up being based on location and other things so there would be a difference in hers vs yours.

Humm... Eight days on, Bells "good outcome" remains a work in process. Rightly so, BellymonsterMom is "frustrated, sad, scared..." I would be too.

The vet's office and the ER would have retained copies of the intake and treatment records.

I'd be re-tracing every step in the treatment--beginning with the specifics of the vaccine.

So hoping Bells has started to feel better.

P.S. I took into account likely differences in cost based on general locations.

I think it is easy to straight out blame the vaccine here when something else could have been picked up from the vet or she is throwing up bile due to an empty stomach or possibly something liver related. I think two very different things are going on. I don't think everything is related to the vaccine.

Meds and info
 

The vet at the emergency vet er didn't give her a shot for reaction ( it wasn't Benedryl but something that I believe started with a B - she didn't get it so I didn't ask for clarity) because she told me that she felt Bells was likely allergic to the preservatives in the vaccine earlier and the one she would have given her that night (?). She gave her the Tramadol because she was yelping in pain when she touched her in the area of the vaccine. I wasn't home when she got the vaccine and my husband thinks a dog is a dog and never notices anything. He didn't give Benedryl ( though he recently told me the doc told him to when he returned home) I returned later that night and rushed her to the ERVet when I noticed her breathing and whimper. That was 10 days ago. She vomited the yellow egg yolk every couple of days , then one day of her food and then a lot of the yellow yoke at 5 am before we took her in yesterday.

Yesterday the vet gave her the Cerenia shot to help her with the vomitting. She has been eating sporadically- so I'm not certain it's bile. It's thicker than the yellow foamy they throw up from empty stomach. So they gave her that shot and sub Q fluids. She was sleepy yesterday, ate dinner ( boiled chicken, very lean beef - to entice- and rice) and then ate some dry food.

Today she didn't eat her breakfast ( same as above) and is now outside eating grass. I dont know what to do She's pooping normal, drinking water. Something is wrong with her, but I don't know what it is or how many times I should bring her to vet. She was there before the shot to get blood work to check for Heartworm meds and her Pancreatitis check because she was acting pooky ( $500 ) . Then for the shot a week later she needed a wellness check first ( ?) at $85. Then $350 at the ER Vet and $120 yesterday. Still she's sick. I'm so upset and don't know what else to do. Asked about Pepcid and they said no.

Dosage
 

Bella is 8.6 lbs and had 10 mg for Tramadol. Our vet gives 50 mg pill cut into 1/4. but the ER gave us 10 mg.

When I asked the vet about the size dose for Rabies...she said a tiny dog gets the same as a big dog and "she went to vet school for years and she knows what she's doing". Yet, my dog is still sick and I will not be able to buy some groceries for a couple of weeks due to outrageous vet bills. Maybe fees should be outcome based. I live in the Lehigh Valley of PA. Prices are high.

It sounds like some of the things mine was doing before being diagnosed with IBD. She was put on prescription food and is much better now. I wouldn’t let her eat the grass. That really is bile. I would try to get her to eat some chicken and rice a few times a day for a week and see if that helps if not you might want to get an opinion from a different vet.

Vets connot alter the doses of rabies it’s against the law. They base shots on what it takes for the immune system rather then weight. I don’t feel what is going on with her is vaccine related. Have you looked at care credit.

Hi BellymonsterMom,

I'm so sorry that you and Bells are going through all of this.

From your comment, it sounds as though Bells was a bit off before the vaccine was administered ("she was acting 'pooky'"), but she's really been through the ringer since.

Did the vet yesterday (Cerenia and sub Q fluids) tell you what to expect over the next day or so? If Bell's not behaving within that "expected" range, I'd call the vet to see if there is anything more you can do at home.

Katy ate grass every once in a while. Only sometimes did I suspect it was a sign her tummy was upset. Here's a pets/WebMD article, "Why Do Dogs Eat Grass?" Same publisher, article, "Should I Stop My Dog from Eating Grass? If So, How?"

Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.

More information about vaccines and reactions:

"AAHA Canine Vaccine Guidelines (Revised 2017)"

Links are on the left of the webpage, including "Vaccine Adverse Reactions."

Bells
 

She is having pretty fast transit as she just pooped on the carpet and it has grass in it and is softish ( this morning it was firm) . Now I'm wondering if she is having another bout of Pancreatitis although her enzyme test was fine a couple of weeks ago.

So, no food for 24 hours, and I'm calling the vet tomorrow morning. I have Royal Canin Low Fat and that is what she will be having from now on until she recovers. Then it's back to boiled chicken and beef, rice, no fat cottage cheese on and on. Eventually she will stop eating the Royal Canin and we have to add the other to get her to eat.

I never know what she's eaten if I'm not watching her 24/7. My husband continually feeds her people food on the sly- it's a horrible point of contention in our family. No matter what the vet says- he continues. My sister suggested we rehome her at this point. I was so angry at her, but if I could do it I think it would be best- but I just can't.

We have the PetPlan Insurance...I pay a 50 a month or something like that for catastrophic ( she also has IVDD, Luxating Patella and the Pancreatitis episodes). She was hypoglycemic when we first got her and I felt she was going to be a sickly thing so I signed up and she has been. So I'm assuming eventually she will need surgery of some sort. Pet Plan used to pay for Vet visits if they were sick, but no longer.

Thank you for the added information.

Keeping you and Bella in my thoughts and prayers. Bless you for staying with this.

Sick baby
 

Belly.
I so feel for your baby and you. It is horrible to see her going through all this trauma. The shot may have set it off, but as the GI issues continue, it could well be a stomach problem. Pancreatitis can come on very quickly especially if fatty food is eaten.
Praying that you find a solution soon and that your baby is well again.
By the way, I have always found Cerenia to be a godsend when my boy had any GI issues. The shot is great and works fast, but is rather expensive. But you can get oral tabs. I have never seen a negative reaction to Cerenia.
Perhaps some Kaopectate or similar from the vet might help calm her tummy. I was told that human Kao is not good for pets as it has additives.
Thinking of you and hoping things improve soon.

When Callie eats grass it means she is going to throw up and it significantly irritates her throat so when I dog is already sick I suggest avoiding the grass eating.

It’s possible because I do think something is going on other then a vaccine reaction. I would explain to your husband that it is actually causing her pain to be feed human stuff. I had to lay down the law with my family about Callie who has IBD.

Called Vet this morning...Bella is rushing outside to eat grass. I stopped her. Sent husband to pick up the Cerenia pills and a syringe to give her liquid. She ate some dry food last night...but nothing else. She's still lethargic but she does get a little excited when my daughter comes home or there is a dog outside.

I brought up the Pancreatitis and they said she would be showing more symptoms, so they are going with irritation of the stomach from the Rabies shot two Wednesdays ago (???)

I don't know what else to do at this point. I will take her to the ER if she shows other symptoms...but I'm going to start with a new Vet on Monday.

metronidazole ?????
 

They sent this home as well. I don't feel comfortable giving this medication unless I know what it's for- if it's a good idea or what the side effects are...has anyone used this? I just did a site search and this didn't come up at all.

Information from AKC on this drug is below, but if you are not sure why they prescribed it, I'd call and ask.

Metronidazole for Dogs

It looks like they suspect IBD, although the vet should have told you that. I'd put her on the medication after confirming with the vet. I agree with everyone else that this probably has nothing to do with the vaccination.