Originally Posted by TammyJM (Post 2978837)

Thanks again!! We have decided to take Cinnamon to the vet this morning because she is now very weak and not able to suckle. We also decided that we are going to go ahead and take all three puppies and Livi along. I am not playing around with any of this and the fact that the vet is closed tomorrow make me nervous. So, off to the vet we all go.

My story, along with other breeders that have gone through their own experiences, these all should be stickied in the breeder's section so every single time someone says that we make money from breeding, we can just post the link for them to read!

Wish us luck at the vet....I am hoping for some positive uplifting words of advice!

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 2978687)

Tam, this is the first thing I looked for this morning when I got up. I just want you to know that Livi, the babies, you and your family are all in my thoughts. Everyone is pulling for all of you.

Sending lots of hugs and love :).

Originally Posted by TammyJM (Post 2979174)

All three puppies got fluids and glucose...Livi also had fluids. The vet said to go ahead and let them nurse...she feels that medicine should be out of her system. However, new problem (UGH!!!!)....Livi basically has no milk left. She only has two teats that have milk and they do not fill up well. Cinnamon is too weak to latch on and the other two are not a whole lot better. I will try the dropper, but guys...I just don't knwo at this point.

These puppies were TRULY the picture of health and spunk....just five hours before that d**m pill!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

We asked the vet for something to help bring Livi's milk and she said that the Oxy nasal is what she wouldgive her. Problem with that, no one carries it. We, along with the vet, called a ton of pharmacies.

I am heartbroken!

Originally Posted by Pinehaven (Post 2979207)

My mentor has several moms who she's used as nursemaids.

Originally Posted by TammyJM (Post 2979174)

All three puppies got fluids and glucose...Livi also had fluids. The vet said to go ahead and let them nurse...she feels that medicine should be out of her system. However, new problem (UGH!!!!)....Livi basically has no milk left. She only has two teats that have milk and they do not fill up well. Cinnamon is too weak to latch on and the other two are not a whole lot better. I will try the dropper, but guys...I just don't knwo at this point.

These puppies were TRULY the picture of health and spunk....just five hours before that d**m pill!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

We asked the vet for something to help bring Livi's milk and she said that the Oxy nasal is what she wouldgive her. Problem with that, no one carries it. We, along with the vet, called a ton of pharmacies.

I am heartbroken!

Originally Posted by Pinehaven (Post 2979207)

I've never had a problem with milk supply on my girls, so maybe someone else can chime in but I had once asked my vet what she would give if I ever had a dog that had problems with producing milk (with horses there is an oral past referred to as Dom Perignon - probably because of it's cost) and she told me she'd give a shot of oxytocin? This will help with the uterus to contract, and that will help stimulate the let down reflex. Other ideas - hand expressing milk to help with "supply and demand" ... if there's no demand, there will be no supply. Possibly a bit of beer as suggested earlier, that will help relax Livi and maybe aid in the "let down" reflex?

Or if you can find some one locally who has a mom who's known to accept and adopt others pups, that may be an option. My mentor has several moms who she's used as nursemaids.

Originally Posted by TammyJM (Post 2978134)

Geoff is home with Cadbury. The vet said that he was a little dehydrated. She gave him sub-q fluids and glucose (I guess a shot...I don't know). She also did a reflex test and said he looked good. When he came home, I really didn't see a puppy that was any stronger than when he left...other than eating...which is great because he was too weak to do this before going to the vet. I wish that I had sent Cupcake as well because she now acts very weak. She feels that this all started with the medication that was given to Livi (that shouldn't have been prescribed in the first place) :mad: The problem is, the puppies are having side effects from the pill...causing bloated gassy tummies. The puppies do not have the energy to latch. However, Cadbury is doing better with eating....Cupcake is having such a tough time. So far, Cinnamon seems fine. I am going to keep trying to get Cupcake to latch onto the bottle tonight. Oh,that's another thing....Livi isn't suppose to nurse for 36 hours...just to give the pill time to get out of her system. The vet said that this is probably overkill on the time-frame, but she wants to be safe. Any advice on Livi's milk since she can't nurse....are we going to lose it now? Oh, and guess what....not only should they never have given Livi that medication, but the vet tonight said that the dosage was also high (it was 250mg for the day....so Livi's pill this morning was 125). *sigh*

Anyone want to place a bet on whether or not I will ever breed again? :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2978813)

Tammy,

I prepare for every litter to the fullest. Make sure I have every concievable med on hand. Plasma, Lactose ringers, you name it I have it ready......but, nothing prepared me for the moment my girl started going down. I had taken all the necessary precautions. POP shot given after the whelp, vet checked, etc.....

When you get these pups eating properly.....you've only got another week or so until they can lap that goat's milk on their own. My girl's pups began losing weight for a couple of days, until I switched them to goat's milk, after my repro vet screamed at me to get them off of Just Born.

Originally Posted by TammyJM (Post 2979454)

You guys have all been a TON of help...in many ways!! I gave Cinnamon the dropper and she did fine...I think I will do this with Cadbury in a few minutes. The puppies' current weights are:

Cinnamon: 6.7 (birth weight was 3.4)
Cupcake: 7.1 (birth weight was 4.1)
Cadbury: 8.3 (birth weight was 4.4)

Part of their weight could be from the sub-q fluids from this morning, though....not sure. At one week, shouldn't they be double their birth weight? :( They were such chubby babies before all of this.

Originally Posted by YorkieRealtor (Post 2979688)

I'm glad you took them all to the vet. I have found someone in your area who can show you how to tube feed, but it sounds like you are doing fine with the dropper. Just send me a message if you change your mind.
It could be that if the puppies will nurse a little that her milk will start to come in. Even weak puppies will normally nurse strongly for a short time if you try it a few minutes after they get a little sugar of some sort. Do you have nutridrops or even just a bottle of 50% dextrose? Give the puppies a dose of one of these things and then see if they will nurse a little.
You may already have this recipe, I am sending it just in case. It is Terri Shumsky's pudding recipe. It will help the milk come in and it is good for your mother if she is not eating/feeling well.
Mix
large 4 cup size vanilla pudding,
1/2 cup sugar,
4 cups of milk, and
4 egg yolks.
Cook on low heat to pudding consistency and offer to new mother at body temperature. She can eat as much as she wants. Has never caused diarrhea and brings in abundance of milk!!!
OR from scratch...
mix the following in a saucepan and cook to pudding consistency.
2/3 cup sugar
6 tablespoons cornstarch
1/2 teas salt
4 cups milk (or one can evap milk plus equal parts water to make quart)
4 egg yolks
3 teasp vanilla.
feed with syringe, on spoon, or let eat from bowl.
full of protein and nourishment....have never had it cause diarrhea.

Originally Posted by hillies (Post 2979646)

Aww poor baby, my Stella was just on Flagyl for 10 days for a diarrhea issue, and she was given 1/4 of a 125 mg pill twice a day...so seems like Livi might've been getting too much medication-maybe that could've made her feel like not eating too, I know even with the amount Stella was on she didn't feel like eating. I hope she's feeling better and the pups continue to grow and stay healthy for you!

Originally Posted by bjh (Post 2979527)

Tammy, the best thing for getting the milk to drop is for Levi to eat a lot of good healthy food and for the pups to suckle. I pray the worst is behind you and that Levi and her babies start doing well.

I have shared this article on YT before and I am not sure if you every read it:
http://www.showpapillons.com/formula.htm

The 10th paragraph has a glucose solution you can make to give to the pups in addition to the milk. I have used it before to supplement a runt puppies and they always seem to really pick up on the nursing and gaining weight.

Originally Posted by TammyJM (Post 2979839)

How incredibly kind of you to find someone to help me!! Will you please PM me their contact info? I am going to try these recipes. Livi's milk pretty much stopped the evening that my husband took Cadbury to the vet. That day/evening, he was too weak to even hold his up...and definitely did not suckle! Livi is a VERY smart and sensitive girl...it was so hard on her to see her puppies sick that day. Then, we were told that they could not surse until that medicine was out of Livi's system so that didn't help matters.

Does anyone know why the vet is opposed to Livi getting the Oxy shot...she wanted to her to have the Oxy nasal, but really does not want to give the shot...but said she would if she just had to.

One more question....should the puppies gain weight everytime that I feed them? Their little tummies feel and look round, but when I weigh them, it stays at the exact same weight. Is this normal? Will it start to increase the more that I am feeding them?