It does seem like the same info, ver batim. This may have been where I saw it, but think it was from someplace else. You know how the internet is....sometimes the same exact info will be on many sites, word for word.

Maybe, I don't know about everyone else but I have tons of info about breeding and different things from here and the net.
Those may not have the sites or the authors who wrote them.
Most of us are guilty of posting things that came from some where else.
Whelping receipts, weight calendars, whelping supplies lists, breeding issues, health info, …etc.

Posting whelping receipts and supply lists, is completely different from posting an entire article written by someone else. You're now talking plagiarism if someone tries passing it off as their own, or copyright infringement if it's copied without the owners permission.

I guess, the safest way to post this sort of information would be by providing a link to the site?

Please, I hate sticking my nose in, but lets all stop this issue before it becomes one.
Lets just support Tammy and Livi and her pups. Tammy does not need to be reading all this other stuff now.

Tammy, my heart is sick with worry for you and your babies. I wish I could help and offer advice, but I have no advise to give you. But just know I am thinking and sending well wishes and prayers for you and your family.

So glad to hear that the babies are gaining! You're doing great Tammy, so is Livi! I remember Mimi's pups had days when they didn't gain anything, but never lost any weight. I really feel very optimistic, will keep sending positive thoughts & prayers your way!:hug:

I originally posted the link to the site a few months back, after I was faced with hand raising a litterl. However, I posed the question of tube feeding to my repro vet and he was in total agreement with not tube feeding, if you could get away with it. Too risky, per his words, he's witnessed the most experienced breeders tube feeding and losing a pup because of a slip up. I know my mentor is a pro at tube feeding and highly advocates it. But, she's been breeding for over 40 years.

I did not say I wrote it, it was only posted for information. Why must you make a debate about everything someone posts. I am coming to the conclusion that YT is just not for me. I will ask admin to remove it and all my posts.

Thank you. :)

I signed on to let you guys know that Livi's milk came in, but only briefly...the puppies were only latched on for a couple of minutes and I checked, the milk was gone. :confused: I am beyond tired...eye dropping every two hours, but the feedings last 45 minutes (longer sometimes)...so by the time I finish, I barely get anytime before I have to start all over. I was thrilled to see that Livi had some milk, but have no idea why it didn't last. Advice/suggestions??

Her milk won't come in all at once but should increase over time. Just makes sure she eats and drinks plenty. If she's being picky, liver is really good for them and if she isn't drinking much water, let her have some goat's milk. Ice cream, boiled chicken, canned food and yogurt can sometimes get their appetite going. Don't expect an immediate turnaround but things should get better.

Hang in there...you're doing great!! :thumbup: :thumbup:

Thank you for the encouragement...I need it! I am still having to syringe food to Livi (except for ice cream and the boiled chicken, obviously :) ). I wasn't giving her enough last week and it was our vet on Saturday that told me that she should be eating one can of dog food in one sitting. So, this is what I have done....I started adding goats milk to the Science Diet A/D can food instead of water. And no, we do not normally feed our guys Science Diet, but it was the one can food that our vet said that does well when you need to add water to syringe. She has been getting plenty of can food, plus goats milk, little ice cream and boiled chicken. I was having to also syringe water to her, but today she started drinking it on her own...and quite a bit each time...YAY!!! She has put on some weight which is nice because she lost a lot just in the very short time that she was sick last week.

Since her milk seems to be trying to come in but didn't last, should I remove her from the puppies and take her back in a little while? I only ask this because they are constantly latched on, even without the milk.

My days/evenings are now consumed with feeding the puppies and Livi....

Thanks!!
Tammy

Tammy I would leave the pups with her.
The more they nurse the more milk she will produce.
Just keep an eye on the pups tummies, as long as they are plump looking they are getting plenty.

They are already plump from me feeding them all day. Should I let Livi keep nursing them, even though I can't see any milk when I check her teat (although, all of them had plenty of milk but for only a couple of minutes). Should I go ahead and do their next eye dropper feeding or leave them with Livi? I am so scared of them starting to fade again. :( I *think* we have that under control, but ONLY because the vet intevened twice with sub-q fluids.

I think it would be good to give her time to replenish away from the pups. After all, if they're not getting anything, they're just using up energy for no real benefit. Since you're feeding them anyway, there's no harm done.

BTW, if they're sucking well, you may be able to use some sort of bottle for feeding them now. It may be a little quicker for you. The dropper is slow and works very well for weak puppies but, with the size of your babies, a bottle may be a better choice if they're vigorous enough for that. Just make sure to burp them and they need diapering if Livi isn't there. You maybe could bring a pup to her for that but keep her away from the litter so they don't mug the milk bar.

I know you're totally caught up in just coping, but I posted earlier today about transitioning the pups over to nursing as Livi's milk comes in.

Jim

Thanks Jim! Yes, I saw what you wrote earlier and was actually thinking about that post during the last feeding that I did. I was wondering when I might be able to do that and then I let Livi into the room (she typically stays while I feed, but for some reason, she was getting too worked up so she had to go see daddy). Anyway, after they ate I had her come in to clean them and the babies went CRAZY NUTTY....like fast little ants all over the place...frantic to get latched on. So, I checked and that is when she had all of her milk (for two minutes). I was soooooooo relieved that I started bawling, but then it stopped and I felt sick.

Hopefully, things will continue in a positive direction with her milk. So you think I should go ahead and do a dropper feeding?

Ooops...I didn't see your last post since I was busy typing. It sounds like Livi is making more milk than I thought. My earlier advice was made thinking her milk was scant. Maybe giving her time to replenish would be good anyway, considering all she and the pups have been through, but it sounds like she may be ready to turn the corner and take on her Mommy duties.

It's in a pup's nature to stay pretty much on the teat early on and you'll have that with any litter. My caution would be based on all that has happened with her so far.

Tammy, I would let Livi do all she can but still closely monitor the babies and feed them at least a little. If she keeps producing, you may be able to feed less and to stretch out the time in between. Just keep a close eye on the pups. They are still prone to going downhill on you but it does sound good!!

I will feed the puppies and then it will be time to feed Livi. Hopefully, Livi's milk will come in and stay!

This is all very good to hear. Sounds like you may be able to get *a little* rest before much longer. I was so hoping you wouldn't be having to hand raise all the pups. Just be careful in letting Livi take over so the pups don't drop off any and make sure they stay vigorous.

With my little girl, I hand fed her a couple times a day even after I was pretty sure she didn't need it, just to be sure.

Tammy, I have nothing to offer other than my prayers and support for Livi and you! I hope that the puppies continue to thrive and that Livi is on the road to recovery!

You are doing fabulous and keep it up! One day at a time girl! You can do it!:)

Hi Tammy,
Just popped in to check on you guys and the babies and Livi. So glad to hear they have gained. It sounds like you have gotten a lot of good advice here and are doing wonderful job with Livi and the babies. Continued good thoughts and prayers coming your way! and little tiny smoochies for the babies :):) Huggles!!!

A couple things I question about the info posted in this thread (not sure if it's the same as in the link you mention) is that there is a reference, when talking about sub-qing, of refilling the syringe for the NEXT 10cc injection. They're obviously talking about larger pups and this info isn't appropriate for a small Yorkie pup. Also, I would disagree about using, not just cow's milk, but undiluted evaporated cow's milk, in a Yorkie. Seems like a good way to blow them out. That's why I think, in this case, a link was necessary so people could determine if the info was appropriate for toy breeds.

It still seems to me that I first saw this on a site about large breeds. I often look around other breed sites for info. Some of it is very useful for Yorkies and some isn't.

As for tube feeding, I wouldn't personally do it and wouldn't recommend something I haven't done or wouldn't do. I have tube fed baby birds, but that's a whole different anatomy.

Tammy,
Puppy even when full will still suck at the nipple, fall asleep with the nipple in the mouth and suck off and on. Just like human babies do.
The nipple is like a pacifier.

The nipples will not stay full looking as puppies do drain them but should show little sacks by the next feeding time. Especially the back ones.
The top nipples hardly ever seem to be full unless there is a big litter.

I had a girl that went off her feet and was not producing much milk but the pups were left with her.
Even tho she didn't look like she had any milk.
They were getting milk because the tummies were plump and they were gaining weight.

The Main thing is to get Livi eating well again so her body will produce enough milk.
As the pups grow her body will adjust to the amount needed

Just keep weight checks on the babies to make sure they keep gaining.

I've been following this thread and just wanted to check to see how Livi and the babies were doing. Glad to hear things are taking a turn for the better. Hang in there Tammy, you're doing a great job! :thumbup::D

Thought I would share some pictures that I took earlier today. :)

AW Thanks for the pics:D and look at them fat lil bellys;) Momma looks good to. Keep up the great work Tammy.

Those babies look like they are doing great. I personally would leave them with mom and let them nurse as much as they want. The sucking is waht will stimulate her to produce more milk. If their bellies look full after nursing, I would not feed them. If they seem content after nursing I would not feed them. If they have nursed and are still crying I would feed them.

Just my opinion.

Oh she is the sweetest thing!!! Thanks for posting the pics:D
The babies look like they have little round tummies, you must be doing a great job.

aww tammy thanks for the pictures...i know it has to be hard on your with all you are going through...but seeing those round plump belly was a big relief for me at least...i been following this thread hoping and praying all turns out well...you are doing an awesome job!

Babies & mom look good i was suprised to see them looking so healthy
keep up the good work

:) Thanks!!! I am super proud of how far these guys have come!!!!! I literally have spent this whole weekend laying on the cold tile floor, with a puppy on a blanket and heating pad in front of me, while I eye drop milk into them. I hurt from my head to my feet from laying like this. But it's all worth it to see these guys do better. Anyone that has ever seen a fading puppy knows EXACTLY what I was dealing with last Friday and Saturday morning. Friday, Cadbury could not not even hold his head up and he couldn't suckle...he just kind of gasped when I tried to get him to latch onto the bottle. These puppies were VERY VERY weak and had upset tummies with diarhhea and were extremely tired. The vet said that this all went hand-in-hand with the medication that Livi had been put on (and the high dosage). We are blessed to have a wonderful vet that we could turn to when the other vet made this error. It has been difficult to try to fix all of this and I am still struggling since Livi still has no milk, but I have been determined to do the right thing for these puppies and for Livi...no matter what!

Thanks again! :)