4th or 5th incident and Vet cannot diagnose

[Ellie May]

I don't get what the vet is doing either and one UTI with clean urine tests after does not necessitate an rx diet. If the vet wanted her on something very palatable, I wonder why something like A/D wasn't chosen.

A lot of vets disagree with homecooking, but as long as you are doing it the right way, they need to get over it. There are plenty of vets out there who will support you. Do you remember the name of the last vet that you liked? Have you tried Googling?

[bjh]

I think if it were a liver problem then her blood work would not be clean. Have you checked her mouth real good for a abscess tooth? How far apart have these episodes been?

[ARCHIE]

It must be frustrating not getting any answers.
Don't hesitate to change vet's. I did, twice for different reasons
and finally found one that thinks pretty much like I do.
I hope you find a vet that will diagnose your baby and get
her on the road to recovery.

[Gingergirlsmom]

Ugh, it's a horrible feeling when they are sick and you don't know why. I will keep you and your little one in my thoughts and prayers. I hope you get the answers you seek soon.

[chattiesmom]

Originally Posted by Lolasmom1211

Have they Bile Acid Tested your baby for liver shunt? Each of these Yorkies react differently to this disease, and some of the symptoms you describe certainly sound like LS. I would definitely run that test on any yorkie, if you haven't. Good luck!

This was my first thought, although I didn't want to scare you. A lot of the time with LS the symptoms occur shortly after eating.

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by ProfessorPeteZa

Sorry I should have explained further. Around 5-6 months ago she had a uti and the vet thought these symptoms that I've described earlier were die to another uti. Turns out it wasn't though. On a slightly unrelated note I am trying to find a new vet as we have different views on food. She thinks it's horrible that I homecook( though I have since the begining and she's had no issues). She believes dogs should eat dog food only

UTI's do not warrent them being on C/D food. I'd stick with your homecooking for now.

Ask this vet to refer you to a specialist and while your seeing the specialist ask her if she recommends a regular vet in teh area that she likes.

Also the vet's office should tell you where the old vet went or like previously mentioned you can google him.

I don't trust this vet your with AT ALL. Sounds like she is just trying things out without having any clue to what is wrong. No vet would prescribe C/D for a UTI every now and then. Doesn't make sense.

[ProfessorPeteZa]

Hi Guys,

Sorry I've been M.I.A. the past couple of days. It got really hectic/scary for me. Thank you for your prayers and please keep us in them.

Going back to Wednesday night. She finally fell asleep near 4 or 5 o'clock am. Her face was dry by now. I suspected the "episode" had ended. I called the specialist in the AM. She was out on vacation and got an appt to see another internist instead for Thurs at 2pm. that was a day away so I went to work.

When I returned in the evening my furbaby was waiting for me at the door as per her usual. We have glass doors so I can see her. She was shaking violently and then falling over. I freaked out ran up scooped her up and ran to the emergency room. I had never seen her like this. It was very scary. the whole drive there she was looking at me like "mommy, what's happening to me"

We got to the hospital and they took her back. I explained all the symptoms and while driving had her vet fax over all her records. I also told emergency room i was on my way so they were ready for me. They took her back.

When i spoke to the doctor she asked if Bindi had gotten into anything or maybe eaten something weird. I said no. She did her blookwork again (tho she had it done on 7/2) and her Liver enzyme (ADT? ALT? ADL? Im at work and do not have my copies w. me) was elevated and her glucose and something else was borderline low.

She suggested we do a i bile acid test. and a urinalysis. we did all that. her urinalysis came back with some crystals they told me was common in doggies with liver shunt. However her odd behavior made her think she had a neurological problem. Also, they said Bindi failed all the neurological test (??) they gave her. To make a long story short. The emergency room doctor said that I should see a neurologist as opposed to the internist until we get the bile acid result back (the lab tech had left at this point). I was in the emergency room for about 4 hours or so.

So I got an appt for yesterday at 11am with a neurologist. They suggested an MRI ($3k !!!!) to rule out tumors/leisons but that this was low on the list of possiblities. but that this sounded like epilepsy and she may be having some focal seizures or something. but she still wanted to see the result of the bile acid test. something about toxicity making her act the way she does

The bile acid test came back yesterday evening. Her levels were very elevated the emergency room doctor said. And that the next step would be to take another test called "Protein" something. to make sure. Has anyone heard of this test? I am trying to get her in tomorrow to have it done.

Can someone also give me a link to Liver Shunt. what is it exactly? what are its implications if Bindi does have this? Is this a devasting prognosis? Will she be ok? Is it treatable?? Im freaking out here.

Thanks,
V

[ProfessorPeteZa]

just read this on wiki (dont know how credible it is)

sounds like whats going on w. her...
Portosystemic shunt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Symptoms of congenital PSS usually appear by six months of age[1] and include failure to gain weight, vomiting, and signs of hepatic encephalopathy (a condition where toxins normally removed by the liver accumulate in the blood and impair the function of brain cells) such as seizures, depression, tremors, drooling, and head pressing. Urate bladder stones may form because of increased amounts of uric acid in circulation and excreted by the kidneys. Initial diagnosis of PSS is through laboratory bloodwork showing either elevated serum bile acids after eating or elevation of fasting blood ammonia levels, which has been shown to have a higher sensitivity and specificity than the bile acids test.[4] Rectal portal scintigraphy using 99mtechnetium pertechnetate, a technique of imaging involving detection of gamma rays emitted by radionuclides absorbed through the rectum and into the bloodstream, demonstrates the blood vessel bypassing the liver. Surgery definitively shows the shunt if it is extrahepatic.

[Lolasmom1211]

Originally Posted by ProfessorPeteZa

Hi Guys,

Sorry I've been M.I.A. the past couple of days. It got really hectic/scary for me. Thank you for your prayers and please keep us in them.

Going back to Wednesday night. She finally fell asleep near 4 or 5 o'clock am. Her face was dry by now. I suspected the "episode" had ended. I called the specialist in the AM. She was out on vacation and got an appt to see another internist instead for Thurs at 2pm. that was a day away so I went to work.

When I returned in the evening my furbaby was waiting for me at the door as per her usual. We have glass doors so I can see her. She was shaking violently and then falling over. I freaked out ran up scooped her up and ran to the emergency room. I had never seen her like this. It was very scary. the whole drive there she was looking at me like "mommy, what's happening to me"

We got to the hospital and they took her back. I explained all the symptoms and while driving had her vet fax over all her records. I also told emergency room i was on my way so they were ready for me. They took her back.

When i spoke to the doctor she asked if Bindi had gotten into anything or maybe eaten something weird. I said no. She did her blookwork again (tho she had it done on 7/2) and her Liver enzyme (ADT? ALT? ADL? Im at work and do not have my copies w. me) was elevated and her glucose and something else was borderline low.

She suggested we do a i bile acid test. and a urinalysis. we did all that. her urinalysis came back with some crystals they told me was common in doggies with liver shunt. However her odd behavior made her think she had a neurological problem. Also, they said Bindi failed all the neurological test (??) they gave her. To make a long story short. The emergency room doctor said that I should see a neurologist as opposed to the internist until we get the bile acid result back (the lab tech had left at this point). I was in the emergency room for about 4 hours or so.

So I got an appt for yesterday at 11am with a neurologist. They suggested an MRI ($3k !!!!) to rule out tumors/leisons but that this was low on the list of possiblities. but that this sounded like epilepsy and she may be having some focal seizures or something. but she still wanted to see the result of the bile acid test. something about toxicity making her act the way she does

The bile acid test came back yesterday evening. Her levels were very elevated the emergency room doctor said. And that the next step would be to take another test called "Protein" something. to make sure. Has anyone heard of this test? I am trying to get her in tomorrow to have it done.

Can someone also give me a link to Liver Shunt. what is it exactly? what are its implications if Bindi does have this? Is this a devasting prognosis? Will she be ok? Is it treatable?? Im freaking out here.

Thanks,
V

My baby had a liver shunt diagnosed in March of this year. I, like you, knew nothing about this disease and felt like I had been punched in the stomach when I found out. I got on the internet and learned all I could. My first suggestion to you is to immediately join:
Liver_Shunt_And_MVD_Support : Liver Shunt & MVD/HMD Support
they have so, so many answers and all of the advice you can ask for. I really feel like with their advice and guidence, they helped save my baby girl's life! She had surgery in March and is like a new little girl! They have told me what to feed her, what not to feed her - what tests to run, what tests not to waste money on and they have been 100% correct. Your baby will be OK, take a deep breath...but also realize that most vets are VERY unfamiliar with this disease and you must learn as much about it for your baby as possible. Please ask me any questions you need to, but there are people on the above forum that are so much more knowledgeable than me! Good luck - give your baby a belly rub and sweet kiss - get her on lactulose, Hills LD diet, Royal Canin Hep 14 kibble (all prescriptions) and start learning as much as you can! She's lucky to have you!

[TLC]

Originally Posted by Lolasmom1211

My baby had a liver shunt diagnosed in March of this year. I, like you, knew nothing about this disease and felt like I had been punched in the stomach when I found out. I got on the internet and learned all I could. My first suggestion to you is to immediately join:
Liver_Shunt_And_MVD_Support : Liver Shunt & MVD/HMD Support
they have so, so many answers and all of the advice you can ask for. I really feel like with their advice and guidence, they helped save my baby girl's life! She had surgery in March and is like a new little girl! They have told me what to feed her, what not to feed her - what tests to run, what tests not to waste money on and they have been 100% correct. Your baby will be OK, take a deep breath...but also realize that most vets are VERY unfamiliar with this disease and you must learn as much about it for your baby as possible. Please ask me any questions you need to, but there are people on the above forum that are so much more knowledgeable than me! Good luck - give your baby a belly rub and sweet kiss - get her on lactulose, Hills LD diet, Royal Canin Hep 14 kibble (all prescriptions) and start learning as much as you can! She's lucky to have you!

I agree 100%

Take a deep breath...She is in good hands.

First you need to get her food changed to the Rx food mentioned above: Hills LD diet, Royal Canin Hep 14 kibble - Chicken is NO GOOD for her. Too high in protein and purines. Those seizure episodes you have witnessed are a result of the wrong food. Her liver (if she has a shunt) can not filter the ammonia toxin buildup (from the protein) and those toxins were going straight to her brain causing those HE symptoms.

I belive Lolasmom1211 went to one of the BEST places - U of Tenn. If possible, this is what I would suggest for you too ~ Not only will you get the BEST surgeons and doctors, but I do believe it won't break the bank too
Portosystemic Shunts FAQ

P.S. The Protein C test is what they want to do next, and yes this is a Good Indicator of Liver Shunt - pretty cheap blood test, sent to Cornell University for the results. I would proceed with this, although, I would also get to the U of Tenn (if you can)

[Ellie May]

That diagnosis sounds very accurate but it is a bit surprising that her previous bile acids test was normal. This is not a death sentence, but she does need medical and dietary management immediately.

[Lolasmom1211]

Originally Posted by TLC

I agree 100%

Take a deep breath...She is in good hands.

First you need to get her food changed to the Rx food mentioned above: Hills LD diet, Royal Canin Hep 14 kibble - Chicken is NO GOOD for her. Too high in protein and purines. Those seizure episodes you have witnessed are a result of the wrong food. Her liver (if she has a shunt) can not filter the ammonia toxin buildup (from the protein) and those toxins were going straight to her brain causing those HE symptoms.

I belive Lolasmom1211 went to one of the BEST places - U of Tenn. If possible, this is what I would suggest for you too ~ Not only will you get the BEST surgeons and doctors, but I do believe it won't break the bank too
Portosystemic Shunts FAQ

P.S. The Protein C test is what they want to do next, and yes this is a Good Indicator of Liver Shunt - pretty cheap blood test, sent to Cornell University for the results. I would proceed with this, although, I would also get to the U of Tenn (if you can)

You are correct, I did take Lola to Dr. Tobias at University of TN. We had a great surgical center close to the house and Texas A&M about 1 hour away..but University of TN was supposed to be the best and it was ALOT cheaper...so, why not take her there when it was less money! I can not say enough wonderful things about UT and the care that we received there. Lola was tiny and I was so worried about her "aftercare". UT is used to taking care of these tiny babies - they have special beds and do these liver shunt surgeries so often. I feel very, very fortunate that I was able to take Lola to UT. It truly has been like giving her a new chance at life. Lola was misdiagnosed for so long and my vet did not want to BAT her because she had "no real symptoms" of Liver Shunt...it is just such a shame when it is such a easy test to run. I'm so happy they have found out this precious baby's problem and that they can now start her on the road to recovery...

[ProfessorPeteZa]

Originally Posted by Lolasmom1211

You are correct, I did take Lola to Dr. Tobias at University of TN. We had a great surgical center close to the house and Texas A&M about 1 hour away..but University of TN was supposed to be the best and it was ALOT cheaper...so, why not take her there when it was less money! I can not say enough wonderful things about UT and the care that we received there. Lola was tiny and I was so worried about her "aftercare". UT is used to taking care of these tiny babies - they have special beds and do these liver shunt surgeries so often. I feel very, very fortunate that I was able to take Lola to UT. It truly has been like giving her a new chance at life. Lola was misdiagnosed for so long and my vet did not want to BAT her because she had "no real symptoms" of Liver Shunt...it is just such a shame when it is such a easy test to run. I'm so happy they have found out this precious baby's problem and that they can now start her on the road to recovery...

U of Tenn is a bit of a ways from me. As i live in South Florida.... is there any word on U of F? If necessary and I am able to cover it financially i will look into U of Tenn. Granted she does indeed have the shunt.

I had NO IDEA about the chicken! Guess what she eats all the time? CHICKEN??? omg ive been posioning her. What should I make for her tonight that would be acceptable. I know I have to get her that food tomorrow when i go to the vet.

Thank you for the links I will be looking at them now and joining that group too.

Thanks,
Vaishali

[Lolasmom1211]

Originally Posted by ProfessorPeteZa

U of Tenn is a bit of a ways from me. As i live in South Florida.... is there any word on U of F? If necessary and I am able to cover it financially i will look into U of Tenn. Granted she does indeed have the shunt.

I had NO IDEA about the chicken! Guess what she eats all the time? CHICKEN??? omg ive been posioning her. What should I make for her tonight that would be acceptable. I know I have to get her that food tomorrow when i go to the vet.

Thank you for the links I will be looking at them now and joining that group too.

Thanks,
Vaishali

They can give you a list of food better than I can. Here is a list:
Apple bits (no skin)
Watermelon
Potatoes (not for dogs with kidney issues)
Pasta (can add a little low sodium chicken broth to this)
Noodles
Organic Plain flavored Yogurt (with live active cultures like
Stonyfield brand)
No sodium cottage cheese (Friendship) has 2% sodium
Low sodium Goat cheese (if 3% sodium or less)Redwood Hill Farm/plain
Low fat cottage cheese (only about a teaspoon) OR Cabot brand
which has live acidophilus and bifidus.
Sweet potatoes (not for dogs with neurological symptoms)
Egg whites(scrambled, hard boiled, etc.)one egg white has about
3.5 grams of protein (Do not give egg yolks)
NEVER GRAPES OR RAISINS!
Cheerios (not for dogs with neurological symptoms or those
that have had bladder stones)
Veggies - lightly steamed as dogs have a hard time digesting
them raw - Green/string beans also a viable choice.

[TLC]

Originally Posted by ProfessorPeteZa

U of Tenn is a bit of a ways from me. As i live in South Florida.... is there any word on U of F? If necessary and I am able to cover it financially i will look into U of Tenn. Granted she does indeed have the shunt.

I had NO IDEA about the chicken! Guess what she eats all the time? CHICKEN??? omg ive been posioning her. What should I make for her tonight that would be acceptable. I know I have to get her that food tomorrow when i go to the vet.

Thank you for the links I will be looking at them now and joining that group too.

Thanks,
Vaishali

Meat and Organ Meat is the worst.

For tonight you can feed a little Cottage Cheese or Srambled Egg mixed with veggies and rice. But again, very little on the CC or Egg, make it more veggies and rice. Def. get the Rx food, as this is ideal for her.

Some ppl take the L/D wet and bake it. And some ppl take the kibble and soak it for 3 hrs, to get more water intake