Cosmo fell, hit his head or back :( - Page 10 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

BLEU BOY BARBER · 02-27-2008, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellacml

yeah its a new phone(2 months) so i haven't got around to it yet(LAZY)

I really appreciate you sharing

so you suggest I cut the middle man(vet) and head straight to a neurologist? i'm going to call you once my phone is charged

YES HEAD TO NEUROLOGISTS ASAP!! you asked and yes yes yes yes yes!

hugs to you one breath at a time it is all going to work out but stay on top of it just as you are and get him to NEURO ASAP

KathyinCali · 02-27-2008, 10:26 AM

Sending prayers to you and Cosmo...

Mybabe4me · 02-27-2008, 11:10 AM

Okay time for me to step on here.. LOL sorry.. I do know of a great place that does AAI/AAS surgery.. Bella a pup that I know had surgery done at Cornell and they were fantastic now that is in NEW YORK..
As Vicki was saying.. Yes Your little one sure sounds like AAI/AAS to me.. If you would like some more information I will send you some I have in Babybear's file.. Also if you have a minute before your appointment or after read Babybear's story and diary on Dogster.. Here is his webpage: http://www.dogster/dogs/136060 Anyone can go to this to get your information.. I am going to put more information on there for everyone to understand this a little better..
Please keep us updated.. If you ever have anything you need or want to talk about when it comes to your little one please pm me and I will either give you my email addy,phone number or a place to get your information from.. I am here for you just like Vicki is and many others.. I will pray this is not AAI/AAS but it sure sounds it to me..
Thank you Vicki for jumping in on this one. I know we had chatted about it.. But after loosing my power for almost 12 hours it was hard to get back.. And then my email was over flowing when I was able to get back. But I am here now.. I will be leaving in a bit for Babybear's acupuncture appointment but will be back around 6:30..
Best of luck to you at the vets office.. But you do need a digital xray or a mri to determine AAI/AAS...SO please request one even if they don't think it is necessary.. And he needs to be on some steroids.. Sorry i am not vet but have coached many though this now.. Thanks for listening..

BLEU BOY BARBER · 02-27-2008, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mybabe4me

Okay time for me to step on here.. LOL sorry.. I do know of a great place that does AAI/AAS surgery.. Bella a pup that I know had surgery done at Cornell and they were fantastic now that is in NEW YORK..
As Vicki was saying.. Yes Your little one sure sounds like AAI/AAS to me.. If you would like some more information I will send you some I have in Babybear's file.. Also if you have a minute before your appointment or after read Babybear's story and diary on Dogster.. Here is his webpage: http://www.dogster/dogs/136060 Anyone can go to this to get your information.. I am going to put more information on there for everyone to understand this a little better..
Please keep us updated.. If you ever have anything you need or want to talk about when it comes to your little one please pm me and I will either give you my email addy,phone number or a place to get your information from.. I am here for you just like Vicki is and many others.. I will pray this is not AAI/AAS but it sure sounds it to me..
Thank you Vicki for jumping in on this one. I know we had chatted about it.. But after loosing my power for almost 12 hours it was hard to get back.. And then my email was over flowing when I was able to get back. But I am here now.. I will be leaving in a bit for Babybear's acupuncture appointment but will be back around 6:30..
Best of luck to you at the vets office.. But you do need a digital xray or a mri to determine AAI/AAS...SO please request one even if they don't think it is necessary.. And he needs to be on some steroids.. Sorry i am not vet but have coached many though this now.. Thanks for listening..

Yep she knows her stuff

Marcellacml · 02-27-2008, 01:11 PM

okay you guys, heres whats up

I was searching for a neurologist online, someone said cornell? thats VERYYYYYY far from me. Now, there are a few on the island, but, they all require a referral to be seen. So, I took him to the vet, now I know what your all going to tell me but heres what the vet said.

He examend him, looked at his eyes, ears, did something with the neck? checked his teeth, watched him walk and stumble, heard my story, and explained something about the vestibular part of the brain, and how it could cause him to be acting this way. He gave me medicine for it and he wants to see how that goes and to bring him back for a visit next week. He said it takes time, even weeks, and sometimes it never goes away. This guy really sounded like he knows what hes doing.

oh and he also said hes heard so many complaints about that hospital, and he said that cosmo is on a high dose of steroids and to give him HALF of what hes on.

I don't know, throw your opinions out there please.

Marcellacml · 02-27-2008, 01:26 PM

oh he also did a test to check his vision and balance, he held him at the edge of the table to see if he would climb up, he was a little disoriented with that.

Mybabe4me · 02-27-2008, 01:34 PM

Okay here I go putting my two cents in.. Did he take Cosmo's neck and try to touch his chest with his chin and then bring his chin up?? With an AAI/AAS pup they will hurt when this happens..Babybear I think back would cry when I grabbed his snout to hush him if someone was at the door.. I have read and read on this subject.. And this is one test that they do to see if they have AAI/AAS..
And the vet did not do any xrays??That upsets me.. Did the other hospital do xrays on your pup and if so were they digital or a catscan or an mri?? This is how AAI/AAS is ruled out not by checking ears,and things.. You need to see sometimes you can not tell what is going on without these tests.. Like I said I am no vet.. What I have learned from and about AAI is all hands on and talking to a lot of AAI/AAS parents.. And what they have delt with..Just remember not to down vets but they learn from text books what I learned from what I see every day and live with every day.Many vets only see this once in there life time if they are lucky.. So there is a big difference between text books and hands on... And vets hate to hear you have been on the computer trying to diagnose you pup yourself.. So they will turn in a different direction and check something else.. YOU HAVE TO BE YOUR PUPS VOICE YOU PAY THESE VETS TO DO WHAT YOU WANT NOT SO THEY CAN TELL YOU WHAT THEY THINK YOU WANT TO HEAR... Sorry I need to get that out there.. I think I have told many on here this because I have been there gone through it all..And it is not fun if it is AAI and it is not being treated or checked right.. If you take a minute and read BAbybear's diary you will see why I am really wanting to help you here..
If it is not AAI I will jump for joy with you and I am sure that Vicki and many others will also.. But if it is and Cosmo is running and playing and jumping around like he usually does.. then he could get very badly injured.. Until they completely rule out AAI I would treat him like he was a fine piece of china.. I ask you to please take my advice.. I think many Yorkie Talk parents have seen me on these boards enough to know that I have been down a very rough road with Babybear and I am still trying to get him back to at least 50 percent of where he was before he broke his neck do to AAI/AAS..
Please if you would like to pm me go ahead I am here.. Or if you need to talk let me know..
Right now I am getting Babybear ready for his acupucture appointment.. I will be back closer to 6:30-7 his appointments take about a hour an his appointment is at 5:30 he needs a diaper change and he needs to be dresses and feed before we go.. See a great deal of work for a little one that does get the worst of injuries with AAI.. But he is my baby and I love him to death..
Give Cosmo a gentle belly rub from us..OH before I go.. It was me that had told Vicki the pain meds mask the pain and the pups don't think they are hurt anymore so they play harder.. Which injures them more.I was told this by the Surgeon that did Babybear's surgery..She thought I was crazy ask her she will tell you.. She thought I was a nut, but I was right in telling her this.. From my experiances.. I don't want to scare you I really do not.. You are a wonderful mom for taking the time to do what is right for your baby.

Marcellacml · 02-27-2008, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mybabe4me

Okay here I go putting my two cents in.. Did he take Cosmo's neck and try to touch his chest with his chin and then bring his chin up?? With an AAI/AAS pup they will hurt when this happens..Babybear I think back would cry when I grabbed his snout to hush him if someone was at the door.. I have read and read on this subject.. And this is one test that they do to see if they have AAI/AAS..
And the vet did not do any xrays??That upsets me.. Did the other hospital do xrays on your pup and if so were they digital or a catscan or an mri?? This is how AAI/AAS is ruled out not by checking ears,and things.. You need to see sometimes you can not tell what is going on without these tests.. Like I said I am no vet.. What I have learned from and about AAI is all hands on and talking to a lot of AAI/AAS parents.. And what they have delt with..Just remember not to down vets but they learn from text books what I learned from what I see every day and live with every day.Many vets only see this once in there life time if they are lucky.. So there is a big difference between text books and hands on... And vets hate to hear you have been on the computer trying to diagnose you pup yourself.. So they will turn in a different direction and check something else.. YOU HAVE TO BE YOUR PUPS VOICE YOU PAY THESE VETS TO DO WHAT YOU WANT NOT SO THEY CAN TELL YOU WHAT THEY THINK YOU WANT TO HEAR... Sorry I need to get that out there.. I think I have told many on here this because I have been there gone through it all..And it is not fun if it is AAI and it is not being treated or checked right.. If you take a minute and read BAbybear's diary you will see why I am really wanting to help you here..
If it is not AAI I will jump for joy with you and I am sure that Vicki and many others will also.. But if it is and Cosmo is running and playing and jumping around like he usually does.. then he could get very badly injured.. Until they completely rule out AAI I would treat him like he was a fine piece of china.. I ask you to please take my advice.. I think many Yorkie Talk parents have seen me on these boards enough to know that I have been down a very rough road with Babybear and I am still trying to get him back to at least 50 percent of where he was before he broke his neck do to AAI/AAS..
Please if you would like to pm me go ahead I am here.. Or if you need to talk let me know..
Right now I am getting Babybear ready for his acupucture appointment.. I will be back closer to 6:30-7 his appointments take about a hour an his appointment is at 5:30 he needs a diaper change and he needs to be dresses and feed before we go.. See a great deal of work for a little one that does get the worst of injuries with AAI.. But he is my baby and I love him to death..
Give Cosmo a gentle belly rub from us..OH before I go.. It was me that had told Vicki the pain meds mask the pain and the pups don't think they are hurt anymore so they play harder.. Which injures them more.I was told this by the Surgeon that did Babybear's surgery..She thought I was crazy ask her she will tell you.. She thought I was a nut, but I was right in telling her this.. From my experiances.. I don't want to scare you I really do not.. You are a wonderful mom for taking the time to do what is right for your baby.

He did do the neck, chest, chin thing, and cosmo didn't react, no pain. He also asked for the xrays the hospital did them so hes trying to get them from there. I didn't tell him that i've been checking online to diagnose him, or that i've been talking to anyone about it, I just let him do his thing.

I understand you guys are just trying to help, I really do appreciate it, but like I said to see any neurologist here you need a referral, which I obviously don't have.

Marcellacml · 02-27-2008, 01:54 PM

could the steroids be masking the neck pain when the vet was doing that?

Marcellacml · 02-27-2008, 02:12 PM

oh and he also said cosmo eating to the side could also be from the vestibular

Odie in London · 02-27-2008, 02:26 PM

I am so sorry to hear that Cosmo fell and hurt himself. Odie thought that his ears were wings last Friday and jumped from my arms. Needless to say I was horrified. We too rushed him to the animal hospital and they did xray's and kept him over night for observations. Thankfully he is ok.
Our prayers are with you and your baby.
Nicole and Odie.
London Ontario Canada

kalina82 · 02-27-2008, 03:10 PM

I agree that he should be seen by a neurologist just to be sure. I know you need a referral to see one because i have a neurologist at the hospital i work for. Ask your vet to refer you. Tell him that you want to be sure. He will call the neurologist and tell them what's going on. Then you can call the neurologist to set up an appointment. Your vet cannot deny you the referral if that is what you want. You are just doing what's best for your dog.

kalina82 · 02-27-2008, 03:11 PM

oh and yes it is true that pain meds mask the pain. that is why sometimes its better not to be on them because having a little pain will let your dog know that he shouldn't do some things and that he should rest and sleep. Pain meds will make them feel like they are better and will run around. I'm not sure what Cosmo is on but anti-inflammatories like Rimadyl, Deramaxx, and Metacam and steroids like prednisone can mask the pain.

Mybabe4me · 02-27-2008, 04:32 PM

Thank you for saying that.. I just got back from Babybear's appointment and was making my rounds to the threads and saw that you posted about steroids masking the pain.. Yes it sure can.. A referal is simple though just ask and they are not going to fight with you about it.. Just say i would like to see a neuro could you please refer me.. And it will be all done.. Best of luck.. I will still be hanging around if you need some help.. I will send you more information if you would like to read more on this subject.. Boy i wish there was a place to put information on AAI/AAS, Luxating Patella, Liver Shunts and any others you can think of.. Like they have for the CPR on Yorkies would be a good place.. OH well..I am thinking out loud again... I am here if you need me..

majic50 · 02-27-2008, 06:23 PM

Please INSIST that your vet give you a referal to a neurogsurgeon. My grandson bounced on Lucy on the February 19, I took her into my usual vet (who is very good) the same day, becausw she was walking crooked and couldn't straighten her neck. She walked in circles part of the time. They did x-rays but the those kind of x-rays didn't show anything. Lucy wasn't like your little Cosmo, she didn't improve at all. My vet recommended a neurosurgeon, because these are all neurological symptoms. I called the neurologist and made the appointment(I didn't need a referal). I told them when I made the appointment that I was concerned about AAS, because I had been reading about it on one of my forums and that people on my forum were incouraging me to have her checked out. When they vet walked into the room, she was chuckling when she said, "I hear you have been on the internet". But she didn't chuckle long after she started examining her. She was having x-rays and CT scans before you could say boo and her injury was so serious that she went directly to emergency surgery following the CT scans.

I talked to the neurologist today and she told me that when the surgeon saw the extent of her injury he wondered how she could still be alive let alone walking. A small bone in the top vertebrae was pressing 3/4 of the way into her spinal cord, causing neurological symptoms and severe pain. It was also cutting off the flow of the spinal fluid to her brain causing her to have a severe headdache.

Val and Vicki know what they are talking about. Maybe your vet is right and it is vestibular, but why take the chance that he is wrong. There is nothing to lose by having a neurologist check it out, even if he finds no neurological problem. There's also nothing wrong with being able to tell him what you want him to check for in particular. On the other hand if you wait, you could be risking permanent damage or worse.

02-27-2008, 10:26 AM	#137
KathyinCali Love My Li'l Lucy Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,700	Sending prayers to you and Cosmo... __________________ Kathy and Lil' Lucy and Jammies Rest in Peace my Sweet Buster

02-27-2008, 11:10 AM	#138
Mybabe4me YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Maine Posts: 713	Okay time for me to step on here.. LOL sorry.. I do know of a great place that does AAI/AAS surgery.. Bella a pup that I know had surgery done at Cornell and they were fantastic now that is in NEW YORK.. As Vicki was saying.. Yes Your little one sure sounds like AAI/AAS to me.. If you would like some more information I will send you some I have in Babybear's file.. Also if you have a minute before your appointment or after read Babybear's story and diary on Dogster.. Here is his webpage: http://www.dogster/dogs/136060 Anyone can go to this to get your information.. I am going to put more information on there for everyone to understand this a little better.. Please keep us updated.. If you ever have anything you need or want to talk about when it comes to your little one please pm me and I will either give you my email addy,phone number or a place to get your information from.. I am here for you just like Vicki is and many others.. I will pray this is not AAI/AAS but it sure sounds it to me.. Thank you Vicki for jumping in on this one. I know we had chatted about it.. But after loosing my power for almost 12 hours it was hard to get back.. And then my email was over flowing when I was able to get back. But I am here now.. I will be leaving in a bit for Babybear's acupuncture appointment but will be back around 6:30.. Best of luck to you at the vets office.. But you do need a digital xray or a mri to determine AAI/AAS...SO please request one even if they don't think it is necessary.. And he needs to be on some steroids.. Sorry i am not vet but have coached many though this now.. Thanks for listening.. __________________ Val and Babybear http://www.dogster.com/dogs/136060[/url]

02-27-2008, 01:34 PM	#142
Mybabe4me YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Maine Posts: 713	Okay here I go putting my two cents in.. Did he take Cosmo's neck and try to touch his chest with his chin and then bring his chin up?? With an AAI/AAS pup they will hurt when this happens..Babybear I think back would cry when I grabbed his snout to hush him if someone was at the door.. I have read and read on this subject.. And this is one test that they do to see if they have AAI/AAS.. And the vet did not do any xrays??That upsets me.. Did the other hospital do xrays on your pup and if so were they digital or a catscan or an mri?? This is how AAI/AAS is ruled out not by checking ears,and things.. You need to see sometimes you can not tell what is going on without these tests.. Like I said I am no vet.. What I have learned from and about AAI is all hands on and talking to a lot of AAI/AAS parents.. And what they have delt with..Just remember not to down vets but they learn from text books what I learned from what I see every day and live with every day.Many vets only see this once in there life time if they are lucky.. So there is a big difference between text books and hands on... And vets hate to hear you have been on the computer trying to diagnose you pup yourself.. So they will turn in a different direction and check something else.. YOU HAVE TO BE YOUR PUPS VOICE YOU PAY THESE VETS TO DO WHAT YOU WANT NOT SO THEY CAN TELL YOU WHAT THEY THINK YOU WANT TO HEAR... Sorry I need to get that out there.. I think I have told many on here this because I have been there gone through it all..And it is not fun if it is AAI and it is not being treated or checked right.. If you take a minute and read BAbybear's diary you will see why I am really wanting to help you here.. If it is not AAI I will jump for joy with you and I am sure that Vicki and many others will also.. But if it is and Cosmo is running and playing and jumping around like he usually does.. then he could get very badly injured.. Until they completely rule out AAI I would treat him like he was a fine piece of china.. I ask you to please take my advice.. I think many Yorkie Talk parents have seen me on these boards enough to know that I have been down a very rough road with Babybear and I am still trying to get him back to at least 50 percent of where he was before he broke his neck do to AAI/AAS.. Please if you would like to pm me go ahead I am here.. Or if you need to talk let me know.. Right now I am getting Babybear ready for his acupucture appointment.. I will be back closer to 6:30-7 his appointments take about a hour an his appointment is at 5:30 he needs a diaper change and he needs to be dresses and feed before we go.. See a great deal of work for a little one that does get the worst of injuries with AAI.. But he is my baby and I love him to death.. Give Cosmo a gentle belly rub from us..OH before I go.. It was me that had told Vicki the pain meds mask the pain and the pups don't think they are hurt anymore so they play harder.. Which injures them more.I was told this by the Surgeon that did Babybear's surgery..She thought I was crazy ask her she will tell you.. She thought I was a nut, but I was right in telling her this.. From my experiances.. I don't want to scare you I really do not.. You are a wonderful mom for taking the time to do what is right for your baby. __________________ Val and Babybear http://www.dogster.com/dogs/136060[/url]

02-27-2008, 03:10 PM	#147
kalina82 Phantom Queen Morrigan Donating Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: with my yorkie baby Posts: 10,141 Blog Entries: 1	I agree that he should be seen by a neurologist just to be sure. I know you need a referral to see one because i have a neurologist at the hospital i work for. Ask your vet to refer you. Tell him that you want to be sure. He will call the neurologist and tell them what's going on. Then you can call the neurologist to set up an appointment. Your vet cannot deny you the referral if that is what you want. You are just doing what's best for your dog. __________________ Kellie and Morgan

02-27-2008, 03:11 PM	#148
kalina82 Phantom Queen Morrigan Donating Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: with my yorkie baby Posts: 10,141 Blog Entries: 1	oh and yes it is true that pain meds mask the pain. that is why sometimes its better not to be on them because having a little pain will let your dog know that he shouldn't do some things and that he should rest and sleep. Pain meds will make them feel like they are better and will run around. I'm not sure what Cosmo is on but anti-inflammatories like Rimadyl, Deramaxx, and Metacam and steroids like prednisone can mask the pain. __________________ Kellie and Morgan

02-27-2008, 01:11 PM	#140
Marcellacml Cosmo, Minnie, and Lillian Donating Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New York Posts: 3,107	okay you guys, heres whats up I was searching for a neurologist online, someone said cornell? thats VERYYYYYY far from me. Now, there are a few on the island, but, they all require a referral to be seen. So, I took him to the vet, now I know what your all going to tell me but heres what the vet said. He examend him, looked at his eyes, ears, did something with the neck? checked his teeth, watched him walk and stumble, heard my story, and explained something about the vestibular part of the brain, and how it could cause him to be acting this way. He gave me medicine for it and he wants to see how that goes and to bring him back for a visit next week. He said it takes time, even weeks, and sometimes it never goes away. This guy really sounded like he knows what hes doing. oh and he also said hes heard so many complaints about that hospital, and he said that cosmo is on a high dose of steroids and to give him HALF of what hes on. I don't know, throw your opinions out there please.

02-27-2008, 01:26 PM	#141
Marcellacml Cosmo, Minnie, and Lillian Donating Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New York Posts: 3,107	oh he also did a test to check his vision and balance, he held him at the edge of the table to see if he would climb up, he was a little disoriented with that.

02-27-2008, 01:54 PM	#144
Marcellacml Cosmo, Minnie, and Lillian Donating Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New York Posts: 3,107	could the steroids be masking the neck pain when the vet was doing that?

02-27-2008, 02:12 PM	#145
Marcellacml Cosmo, Minnie, and Lillian Donating Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New York Posts: 3,107	oh and he also said cosmo eating to the side could also be from the vestibular

02-27-2008, 02:26 PM	#146
Odie in London YT Addict Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London Ontario Canada Posts: 465	I am so sorry to hear that Cosmo fell and hurt himself. Odie thought that his ears were wings last Friday and jumped from my arms. Needless to say I was horrified. We too rushed him to the animal hospital and they did xray's and kept him over night for observations. Thankfully he is ok. Our prayers are with you and your baby. Nicole and Odie. London Ontario Canada

02-27-2008, 04:32 PM	#149
Mybabe4me YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Maine Posts: 713	Thank you for saying that.. I just got back from Babybear's appointment and was making my rounds to the threads and saw that you posted about steroids masking the pain.. Yes it sure can.. A referal is simple though just ask and they are not going to fight with you about it.. Just say i would like to see a neuro could you please refer me.. And it will be all done.. Best of luck.. I will still be hanging around if you need some help.. I will send you more information if you would like to read more on this subject.. Boy i wish there was a place to put information on AAI/AAS, Luxating Patella, Liver Shunts and any others you can think of.. Like they have for the CPR on Yorkies would be a good place.. OH well..I am thinking out loud again... I am here if you need me.. __________________ Val and Babybear http://www.dogster.com/dogs/136060[/url]

02-27-2008, 06:23 PM	#150
majic50 YT Addict Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 299	Please INSIST that your vet give you a referal to a neurogsurgeon. My grandson bounced on Lucy on the February 19, I took her into my usual vet (who is very good) the same day, becausw she was walking crooked and couldn't straighten her neck. She walked in circles part of the time. They did x-rays but the those kind of x-rays didn't show anything. Lucy wasn't like your little Cosmo, she didn't improve at all. My vet recommended a neurosurgeon, because these are all neurological symptoms. I called the neurologist and made the appointment(I didn't need a referal). I told them when I made the appointment that I was concerned about AAS, because I had been reading about it on one of my forums and that people on my forum were incouraging me to have her checked out. When they vet walked into the room, she was chuckling when she said, "I hear you have been on the internet". But she didn't chuckle long after she started examining her. She was having x-rays and CT scans before you could say boo and her injury was so serious that she went directly to emergency surgery following the CT scans. I talked to the neurologist today and she told me that when the surgeon saw the extent of her injury he wondered how she could still be alive let alone walking. A small bone in the top vertebrae was pressing 3/4 of the way into her spinal cord, causing neurological symptoms and severe pain. It was also cutting off the flow of the spinal fluid to her brain causing her to have a severe headdache. Val and Vicki know what they are talking about. Maybe your vet is right and it is vestibular, but why take the chance that he is wrong. There is nothing to lose by having a neurologist check it out, even if he finds no neurological problem. There's also nothing wrong with being able to tell him what you want him to check for in particular. On the other hand if you wait, you could be risking permanent damage or worse. Last edited by majic50; 02-27-2008 at 06:26 PM.