Yorkies and toddlers

[Britster]

Wow. Let's not compare someones child to Jeffrey Dahmer. Seems a little uncalled for.

I am not sticking up for the OP and I do not think a Yorkie needs to be a part of their family quite yet. But just because a two year old decided they wanted to kick a dog does not make them out to be a future cold hearted disgusting murderer.

Kids, especially those never around animals before, have no idea how to be gentle with one, especially one as young as two. Sorry but when a two year old decides to kick a dog, it doesn't automatically make the parents bad or the child terrible. Both simply have a lot to learn.

[Roccosmommy]

Originally Posted by Britster

Wow. Let's not compare someones child to Jeffrey Dahmer. Seems a little uncalled for.

I am not sticking up for the OP and I do not think a Yorkie needs to be a part of their family quite yet. But just because a two year old decided they wanted to kick a dog does not make them out to be a future cold hearted disgusting murderer.

Kids, especially those never around animals before, have no idea how to be gentle with one, especially one as young as two. Sorry but when a two year old decides to kick a dog, it doesn't automatically make the parents bad or the child terrible. Both simply have a lot to learn.

[Rhetts_mama]

I agree that jumping from hitting a dog to being a serial killer is extreme. However...

Let's play a game. What if we substituted the word "puppy" for "baby". Would you still say "oh they just need to learn"? Would you recommend a larger baby until they could "play nice"? Or would you think, hmmm, there might be some issues here we need to work on? Would you trust that child around a baby after telling it "no" or to "play nice, touch softly" one time? Would you be worried about jealousy and / or aggression issues?

Just wondering where the line is drawn.

[111lily222]

Originally Posted by Britster

Wow. Let's not compare someones child to Jeffrey Dahmer. Seems a little uncalled for.

I am not sticking up for the OP and I do not think a Yorkie needs to be a part of their family quite yet. But just because a two year old decided they wanted to kick a dog does not make them out to be a future cold hearted disgusting murderer.

Kids, especially those never around animals before, have no idea how to be gentle with one, especially one as young as two. Sorry but when a two year old decides to kick a dog, it doesn't automatically make the parents bad or the child terrible. Both simply have a lot to learn.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

I agree that jumping from hitting a dog to being a serial killer is extreme. However...

Let's play a game. What if we substituted the word "puppy" for "baby". Would you still say "oh they just need to learn"? Would you recommend a larger baby until they could "play nice"? Or would you think, hmmm, there might be some issues here we need to work on? Would you trust that child around a baby after telling it "no" or to "play nice, touch softly" one time? Would you be worried about jealousy and / or aggression issues?

Just wondering where the line is drawn.

Lol, yup. I would think the same way. I have heard of a lot of older siblings who get jealous of a new younger one coming in and if a 2 year old has a new sibling, it wouldn't shock me to hear that he/she maybe would have tried to hit a new baby. Two year olds hit and kick. I can't count the number of times my now-almost 4 year old sister has hit me over something silly. It's what a lot of toddlers do. Thankfully she's basically over that stage. She did try to hit Jackson once -- she was mad because he ate one of her toys and she took a swing (and missed). She got yelled at, put into time out, and never tried it again. I'm not an unfit dog owner, my mom is not an unfit parent, and she's certainly not going to turn into a serial killer because she tried to hit an animal, or didn't understand how to act with one. One time my brother threw a toy car at me when he was younger and it left a mark on my face. I was terribly mad and it hurt. But he's now almost 8 and turned out to be just fine.

Kids do really dumb things sometimes. It just doesn't always mean that a breeder is terrible or that a parent needs parenting classes! I just think some are taking this a little to the extreme. If I were just a "normal" person, not a "crazy dog lady" who belongs to Yorkie and dog forums online, I'd probably just be laughing and say you all are nuts. But since I have spent time here and understand where the frustration comes from, etc, I do understand the concern. I just wish people wouldn't go right to calling the OP an unfit parent, or crazy, or whatever else he was called. It just drives people away and instead of him learning from this forum, he will now probably go out and get a Yorkie and raise it without any guidance that he could have had by belonging to this community.

Actually, here is Emma and Jackson playing together....

Jackson doing tricks and playing with 3 year old...

[Britster]

I want to add, that if Emma were to do something to Jackson, and he bit her, Jackson would never be reprimanded. My mom and stepdad have both explained to her that if she gets bitten because she's bothering the dog, she deserves it, lol. Luckily, Jackson is a very tolerant and socialized dog and I don't think I'd ever let it get to the point where he felt the need to defend himself anyways. I'm always with the two of them.

They have a very good relationship though because, like I said, she's not MY kid, though we live together, and I always supervise. She often will hold his bully sticks for him when he would chew, she runs around the house and throws toys with him and he chases her, etc. Then again, she can be rough without even realizing it. If we are laying in bed and she kicks her feet the wrong way, it can injure him, if she falls down by accident and lands on him, she can hurt him. So it's a matter of watching all the time and teaching. We've tried to teach her how to be very gentle around the doggy and no fast movements, etc. It was a total learning process and it's still not 100% perfect, but we're learning. I wouldn't really volunteer to get a puppy AND have a young child of my own.

I think Emma AND Jackson both are better for it. Jackson knows how to handle most children, and be around them, and Emma now understands for the most part how to safely handle doggies. I think she will look back and have very fond memories of growing up with a puppy.

I do agree that a different breed would a better answer. We got a Golden Retriever when I turned 4 and she was an amazing dog with kids and in fact, highly enjoyed them. They are so much less fragile. If you are looking to remain small, but a bit more sturdy, I'd look into the Havanese, or even a Border Terrier.

Know also that I wouldn't consider Yorkies, or most terriers, to be "family dogs". They tend to gravitate towards ONE human and prefer to spend most of their time with them. As much as Jackson loves my young siblings, my parents, my family and friends, he's definitely all MY dog. Whereas our Golden would have went with anyone, you know?

So, really, I think child should be socialized around dogs more, pick a different breed, and have extensive training and socialization for the dog as well.

[concretegurl]

Brister,
Clean your room! Make your bed! Cute video.

[Taryn0405]

To add to that adorable Jackson video, we've always had terriers growing up. We got our first dog when I was in second grade. However, my Mom (being the animal lover that she is) was always showing us animals, and telling us to be nice and we honestly never had an issue. We knew that when Cammie growled at us, it was because that she had had it, and was warning us to leave her alone.

Does that mean I condone a dog growling at a human? No, but it's like what I tell people with regards to mean dogs. It's not the dog's attitude, it's the owners.

You need to work with your child with regards to her respect for animals. This could mean just keeping the breeders name, and possibly working out something that'll let your little girl visit the breeder on occasion in order develop your child's respect.

Other then that, for your sake and the dog's, keep your child away. Or it will end in heart break

[capt_noonie]

While these are all very valid points, I think the main concern we all had initially was the two year old kicked the dog, and the breeder still wants to sell a puppy to the family. To me, that puts a red flag. If I were the breeder, I would be very protective of my pups and very selective of who got them, similar to who I would place my fosters with. If you have a two year old, one that kicks or not, I would not place one with you. In fact, that family wouldn't have even met my pups, I would have asked about young children over the phone first.

[concretegurl]

I'll "out" myself here.

Bubbies (baby Marek 6 months old) has been in his walker for a couple months now...his favorite thing to do is chase the dogs in his walker.

The dogs know to get up o the couch or go to their safety zone (their beds or kennel) but now Bubbies likes to bumper car everything with his walker-I cannot allow the dogs out running free even if they want to go to the couch to lay down where he can't reach them...I can't risk it.

Bubbies is already learning be nice now, he is being told no touching , pet nice, and not allow near the kennel or dog beads learning now that's their safety spot where they can go and no one can bother them...again he's 6 months old and being taught this now.

FYI I got my dogs when I didn't expect to be having any more children, life happened we learn to deal with it it's a lot of work.

[imdll]

I think it is really difficult to make a judgement call on how the whole situation occurred when we only have the written word to go by. Yes in the intial description the child was said to have tried to hit or kick the dog but in the next description the parents did some teaching and the child's behavior changed. Two year olds have to be taught and I don't think it is fair to judge the parents or the breeder and point fingers when we weren't there.

I have raised four of my own children, ran a day home for 15 years and my brother-in-law has eight children. Let's just say I've spent some time around kids. Some two year olds might slap at a baby the first time they meet it as well. It's not necessarily that they are trying to be mean. Yes it's a teaching moment but not necessarily a reason for alarm. It really depends on the child. Just having the event described in written form really isn't enough to know the temperment of this specific child. Some children may hit or kick at a dog or child simply because they haven't learned that isn't how you should play and once they are taught they don't play that way anymore. Another child of the same age might do the exact same behavior and you could try to teach and train until your blue in the face and the child still plays the same way. I think there has been way to much jumping to conclusions and thinking the worst. Maybe we could consider that the adults involved might be relatively responsible people? Maybe this breeder has their own younger children and so they aren't as closed the the idea of Yorkies and small children? We don't know enough to make that sort of a judgement call.

I realize nobody wants to see any dog get hurt but I really don't think that a parent who comes here looking for advice is automatically irresponsible because their child acts like a child, nor is their breeder irresponsible because they are handling the situation differently that we might. We weren't there, we only know a very small bit of information. If these parents weren't interested in learning they wouldn't have come here in the first place would they? If they were truly irresponsible then why be truthful about what happened? As far as responsible breeders, not all breeders have grown chidren themselves. There are members on this very board who have young children who have managed to teach their children, why can't someone else be given the same opportunity? Here's something else to think about. If a couple truly is irresponsible and they didn't agree with a breeder who wouldn't place their puppies with families with young children, they could simply lie. I think it's a good sign when people are up front about who they are and their family status and willing to be honest about events. If we don't attack them and do some of our own teaching maybe folks would stick around and learn?

I don't think there can be an across the board sort of rule of thumb either direction. Each family is different just like each dog is also different. I wouldn't want to see a particularly small dog with little children even though I do know that some people have managed that with sucess, so I think it also depends upon the size of the dog in question. I just think it's too easy to misread a situation when you only have the written word to go by and haven't been able to witness the event personally.

Some people on this thread have absolutely gone off the deep end with extremes and likening this child's behavior to psychological issues. Anyone who knows anything about phsycology knows that you can not make such a judgement call on a child that is so young. This tendency for things to get out of control is exactly what I have been trying to talk about for the last while. People start feeding off of the attack comments or negative comments and then things grow and grow and spin out of control. How does that benifit YT when we loose members because of it? I have heard from some long time members who have said they will not become donating members because they refuse to financially support a board that allows the sorts of behaviors that has driven others away. I really think that is sad and that things don't have to be this way.