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-   -   Do Yorkies sometimes look like Chuahuas? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/169330-do-yorkies-sometimes-look-like-chuahuas.html)

Ladymom 04-29-2009 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeccag (Post 2599724)
Not yet, so does that mean it won't show up if it was further down the line?
DNA testing is really new and not totally reliable.

A member on another forum I belong to had her super sized Maltese DNA tested when it first came out a couple of years ago. The results came back that Otis was mostly Irish Wolfhound! Now, at 13 pounds Otis was twice the size the Maltese standard calls for, but hardly an Irish Wolfhound! The vet even repeated the test for free and it came back the same!

nanahas3 04-29-2009 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 2599753)
DNA testing is really new and not totally reliable.

A member on another forum I belong to had her super sized Maltese DNA tested when it first came out a couple of years ago. The results came back that Otis was mostly Irish Wolfhound! Now, at 13 pounds Otis was twice the size the Maltese standard calls for, but hardly an Irish Wolfhound! The vet even repeated the test for free and it came back the same!
:lol tearsI am sorry but that is funny lol.

Ladymom 04-29-2009 08:01 AM
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nanahas3 (Post 2599760)
:lol tearsI am sorry but that is funny lol.
I reread Nikki's thread and I was wrong. Otis's DNA test said he was mostly Afghan Hound and Irish Terrier, not wolfhound.

This is Otis. What do you think? :lol tears

bchgirl 04-29-2009 08:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeccag (Post 2599724)
Not yet, so does that mean it won't show up if it was further down the line?
The accuracy decreases. Like I said...the accuracy now is only 85% on the first generation....the test isn't 100%. I didn't mean it wouldn't show up...it's just less accurate. The accuracy rating was determine by testing dogs of KNOWN parentage and of those 85% of the time...the result was correct.

Mars has genetic markers for 143 AKC recognized breeds. They compare your dog's genetic markers to those.

This test was never designed for a "purebreed" dog either.

bchgirl 04-29-2009 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 2599771)
I reread Nikki's thread and I was wrong. Otis's DNA test said he was mostly Afghan Hound and Irish Terrier, not wolfhound.

This is Otis. What do you think? :lol tears
Yep, he's an afghan. :rolleyes: I've read some nutso results of this testing myself. No way could some of the breeds I've read...be within three generations...you would see IT in the dog. Like...shouldn't Otis be taller??? LOL

Ladymom 04-29-2009 08:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchgirl (Post 2599792)
This test was never designed for a "purebreed" dog either.
You're right. It was created to determine what breeds make up a mixed breed dog, not to determine if a dog is purebred or not.

Dog DNA Test | Mixed Breed Analysis | Canine Breed Testing

Gigi485 04-29-2009 10:47 AM
We came from chimps right?
 
OK - so I'm going to get deep....

So, I wonder what happens if you send in a sample of a purebreed? What would you get back?

Do you think it's safe to say, that even if Ksena is a purebreed - it won't come back that way....

Does anyone have any experience with this?

I just sent my sample in yesterday - so if it comes back that Sully is part German Shepard....what then? I guess I will have a good laugh. But seriously, how does anyone know they have a "real" purebreed....anyway.

DH says that they all came from somewhere and if there's a genetic DNA marker from 300 years ago or 1,000 years ago that says German Shepard, or wolfhound or whatever....then that just means that at some point in the evolution of animal - there was a mixing of the breeds....he says that we evolved from chimps....so at some deep genetic level there has to be a trace of monkey in us....right?. Why else would he have a hairy back.
:D

rebeccag 04-29-2009 12:18 PM
Test...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigi485 (Post 2600070)
OK - so I'm going to get deep....

So, I wonder what happens if you send in a sample of a purebreed? What would you get back?

Do you think it's safe to say, that even if Ksena is a purebreed - it won't come back that way....

Does anyone have any experience with this?

I just sent my sample in yesterday - so if it comes back that Sully is part German Shepard....what then? I guess I will have a good laugh. But seriously, how does anyone know they have a "real" purebreed....anyway.

DH says that they all came from somewhere and if there's a genetic DNA marker from 300 years ago or 1,000 years ago that says German Shepard, or wolfhound or whatever....then that just means that at some point in the evolution of animal - there was a mixing of the breeds....he says that we evolved from chimps....so at some deep genetic level there has to be a trace of monkey in us....right?. Why else would he have a hairy back.
:D
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!! Hubby def. wild Orangatan but back to the point....Did I pick the wrong test? The vet said it was the best one and easy to understand? I don't see how if Ksena is pure it could show something else especially if the chances lessen the further back it goes. I'm thinking the opposite to be true....Anyway, Ksena chased a big poor quality golden lab or a lab mix ( ;) ) off her turf the other day...I started to think she may be part Pit Bull......:rollingey

I looked up characteristics of chihuahuas and Yorkies to try to further analyse myself because it is driving me nuts and it said Chihuahuas can jump almost as high as cats....Ksena can almost get on the couch...Poor Jonah's feet barely leave the floor.....Also, while I'm on here anyway, a girl who lives beside me came by with her part Chi/Yorkie to see the pups and her dog and Ksena were going nuts after each other...very funny...Jonah's like huh???? Does anyone have a crazy pure Yorkie...I know chihuahuas go off but didn't realize Yorkies did too??????????

rebeccag 04-29-2009 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 2599808)
You're right. It was created to determine what breeds make up a mixed breed dog, not to determine if a dog is purebred or not.

Dog DNA Test | Mixed Breed Analysis | Canine Breed Testing
If the dog is pure than there is only one breed that makes it up....it can only go back so far....right? I understand all breeds start as a mix but that ends when the final dog is actually recgonized?

rebeccag 04-29-2009 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 2599771)
I reread Nikki's thread and I was wrong. Otis's DNA test said he was mostly Afghan Hound and Irish Terrier, not wolfhound.

This is Otis. What do you think? :lol tears
What made her take the test? Was it just the size that thru her off????? I'd say, maltese, sheepdog......

rebeccag 04-29-2009 12:32 PM
You know what, the vet said it's easy to understand so if I have to post it I will....that's another reason I paid a little more the vet said it's a lot more comprehensive than the do it yourself test.....

rebeccag 04-29-2009 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 2599753)
DNA testing is really new and not totally reliable.

A member on another forum I belong to had her super sized Maltese DNA tested when it first came out a couple of years ago. The results came back that Otis was mostly Irish Wolfhound! Now, at 13 pounds Otis was twice the size the Maltese standard calls for, but hardly an Irish Wolfhound! The vet even repeated the test for free and it came back the same!
Are you sure it's only a few years old??? I swear I heard my father talk about testing the dogs way back when I was very young??????? I might be wrong cuz I was very young....

Ladymom 04-29-2009 12:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeccag (Post 2600276)
What made her take the test? Was it just the size that thru her off????? I'd say, maltese, sheepdog......
Otis was twice the size the Maltese standard calls for and she learned after-the-fact about backyard breeders, as you did.

Ladymom 04-29-2009 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeccag (Post 2600287)
Are you sure it's only a few years old??? I swear I heard my father talk about testing the dogs way back when I was very young??????? I might be wrong cuz I was very young....
No, it's only been available for about three or four years.

Ladymom 04-29-2009 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeccag (Post 2600267)
Did I pick the wrong test? The vet said it was the best one and easy to understand?
Your vet is right. The MARS test is the best. The website claims it is 90% reliable. Of course, that is in determining the heritage of mixed breed dogs.

rebeccag 04-29-2009 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 2600301)
Your vet is right. The MARS test is the best. The website claims it is 90% reliable. Of course, that is in determining the heritage of mixed breed dogs.
That's was my point, I guess, if it's not a mix it will show only Yorkie right?

rebeccag 04-29-2009 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 2600301)
Your vet is right. The MARS test is the best. The website claims it is 90% reliable. Of course, that is in determining the heritage of mixed breed dogs.
What kind of testing does the AKC do? Is it basically the same as the MARS test?

bchgirl 04-29-2009 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeccag (Post 2600312)
What kind of testing does the AKC do? Is it basically the same as the MARS test?
AKC does dna testing to determine parentage only. Samples are collected from the sire/dam and the puppies.

rebeccag 04-29-2009 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchgirl (Post 2600317)
AKC does dna testing to determine parentage only. Samples are collected from the sire/dam and the puppies.
Wow, it only tells who the parents are? What if one of the parents aren't purebred? I can see it working in Show dogs but what about the other dogs....

Ladymom 04-29-2009 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeccag (Post 2600337)
Wow, it only tells who the parents are? What if one of the parents aren't purebred? I can see it working in Show dogs but what about the other dogs....
The AKC only registers purebred dogs. DNA testing requirements ensure that an AKC puppy is purebred. None of the "alternative" registries require DNA testing which is why there is no guarantee that you are getting a purebred if she has papers from any registry other than the AKC.

Many of the alternative registries only require a couple of photographs and the signatures of two witnesses to register a dog as purebred with them. The witnesses don't have to be veterinarians or experts, either. Your Uncle Fred or the neighbor down the street will do just fine. :thumbdown:thumbdown

Abby08 04-29-2009 02:26 PM
I recall a few years back that some scientist supposedly researched the DNA of dogs and wolves and found that dogs were truely decended from wolves. However, I am thinking that I also read some where that DNA results in dogs get really hard to determine which breed the origional breeding pair belong to if they are 3 generations from the origional parents and mixed.

So how does the scientist determine that dogs are from wolves if the parentage gets murky so fast ? Makes me wonder about some of the scientific findngs. Oh and on Rachel Ray one day, they had people DNA'ing thier dogs and the one that made me laugh at the results and not belive those, had an ancestry of all short hair dogs breeds, so why did the dog have medium to long hair..... HA on DNA results from whatever company it came from!

Abby08 04-29-2009 02:30 PM
I think that the DNA only works if the folks who use it are honest. Most of the local folks say they have DNA'd the father, so that they know if someone brings back a puppy and it is not from their dog then they have proof. I honestly don't think it garantees the purbred dog is purbred. J MHO

FlDebra 04-29-2009 02:44 PM
I read through the FAQs at the MARS Wisdom Panel Mixed Breed Analysis site Frequently Asked Questions about Mars Veterinary and read the questions concerning if it could test for purebred dogs. The answers confused the heck out of me. I do not understand how a test that can identify all sorts of AKC breed identifiers in a mixed breed could not also show that a dog only has the one AKC breed identifier and show that it is a purebreed. If what I am reading is right, then even armed with the test results, the OP may still have no proof to offer against the seller. Color me :confused:

Ladymom 04-29-2009 03:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlDebra (Post 2600467)
I read through the FAQs at the MARS Wisdom Panel Mixed Breed Analysis site Frequently Asked Questions about Mars Veterinary and read the questions concerning if it could test for purebred dogs. The answers confused the heck out of me. I do not understand how a test that can identify all sorts of AKC breed identifiers in a mixed breed could not also show that a dog only has the one AKC breed identifier and show that it is a purebreed. If what I am reading is right, then even armed with the test results, the OP may still have no proof to offer against the seller. Color me :confused:
Since the test is designed to be used for determining the heritage of mixed breed dogs, I doubt if the results would carry any weight legally. To date, there isn't a test to prove if a dog is purebred or not.

Whether Ksena is a purebred Yorkie way off standard or a mix, it really doesn't matter as it won't change her appearance. Since the OP saw in in person before she purchased her, I doubt she has any recourse except returning her to the breeder.

Puppies from backyard breeders and pet shops/puppy mills usually grow up to be pretty far from the breed standard.

QuickSilver 04-29-2009 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby08 (Post 2600442)
I recall a few years back that some scientist supposedly researched the DNA of dogs and wolves and found that dogs were truely decended from wolves. However, I am thinking that I also read some where that DNA results in dogs get really hard to determine which breed the origional breeding pair belong to if they are 3 generations from the origional parents and mixed.

So how does the scientist determine that dogs are from wolves if the parentage gets murky so fast ? Makes me wonder about some of the scientific findngs.
Abbey08, I have wondered about that too, and I would be interested to read anything that explained it in layman terms. I sort of know about other ways that DNA can be tracked - for instance, dogs and wolves might have the same type of mitochondria. I believe that these are always passed from the mother in primates (and all other species??), and that's where a lot of information about humanity's origin comes from.

Sometimes I see on Animal Planet that ridge backs are supposedly descended from some type of African wild dog type, or that chihuahuas are from foxes, but that makes no sense to me, since all dogs can breed, meaning that there must be one source species.

It is pretty amazing to look at Thor, a 4 pound yorkie with silver hair, and imagine that his genes came from wolves. Says a lot about the diversity of the genome!

Martin0327 04-29-2009 03:29 PM
I called them about Arizona.....
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeccag (Post 2600337)
Wow, it only tells who the parents are? What if one of the parents aren't purebred? I can see it working in Show dogs but what about the other dogs....

Well since i was having the same concern as you with Arizona, I called them to ask them all these questions.

1. It states on the site that it does not determine breed only parentage. Sooo then....

2. I asked them what happens if it is determined that only one of the parents is the pups they said:

They would contact the breeder and ask them if there is another dog that mothered/ fathered the pup.......and if not then they would begin open an investigation on the breeder.

Also my pup would be placed on a limited registration until the lineage is determined and that sometimes it could be three or four years down the the road but that eventually the it MAY be found.

AND that was it!

Nancy1999 04-29-2009 04:13 PM
In the world of DNA knowledge, it's like we have discovered the molecule, but we have yet to discover the atom.

Ladymom 04-29-2009 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin0327 (Post 2600525)
Well since i was having the same concern as you with Arizona, I called them to ask them all these questions.

1. It states on the site that it does not determine breed only parentage. Sooo then....

2. I asked them what happens if it is determined that only one of the parents is the pups they said:

They would contact the breeder and ask them if there is another dog that mothered/ fathered the pup.......and if not then they would begin open an investigation on the breeder.

Also my pup would be placed on a limited registration until the lineage is determined and that sometimes it could be three or four years down the the road but that eventually the it MAY be found.

AND that was it!
You are talking about a different type of DNA test, the one the AKC requires for frequently used sires to prove parenthood.

The MARS Wisdom Panel is the one we are discussing in this thread. It tells you the different breeds in the DNA of a mixed breed dog.

It's confusing, isn't it?

nanahas3 04-29-2009 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeccag (Post 2600267)
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!! Hubby def. wild Orangatan but back to the point....Did I pick the wrong test? The vet said it was the best one and easy to understand? I don't see how if Ksena is pure it could show something else especially if the chances lessen the further back it goes. I'm thinking the opposite to be true....Anyway, Ksena chased a big poor quality golden lab or a lab mix ( ;) ) off her turf the other day...I started to think she may be part Pit Bull......:rollingey

I looked up characteristics of chihuahuas and Yorkies to try to further analyse myself because it is driving me nuts and it said Chihuahuas can jump almost as high as cats....Ksena can almost get on the couch...Poor Jonah's feet barely leave the floor.....Also, while I'm on here anyway, a girl who lives beside me came by with her part Chi/Yorkie to see the pups and her dog and Ksena were going nuts after each other...very funny...Jonah's like huh???? Does anyone have a crazy pure Yorkie...I know chihuahuas go off but didn't realize Yorkies did too??????????
LOL I have a purebreed 6 month old yorkie who can get out of a 30 inch high xpen if i dont put the top on it, and he has been able to jump on the sofa since he was 3 months old. He weighs 2lbs 14 oz . I think he is part kangaroo:eek:

Martin0327 04-29-2009 05:42 PM
Sorry...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 2600642)
You are talking about a different type of DNA test, the one the AKC requires for frequently used sires to prove parenthood.

The MARS Wisdom Panel is the one we are discussing in this thread. It tells you the different breeds in the DNA of a mixed breed dog.

It's confusing, isn't it?


I should have clarified.....I was talking about the AKC because my dog Arizona is AKC registered and I was having the same question about whether she was actually a Yorkie. She just doesnt have the same "look" to her. I had rebeccag look at her and we both agreed about how she looked a little chihuahua-ish.....and I had called AKC about this and that was the conclusion. So technically...what im saying is that I think a dog could actually be AKC registered and not purebred. Im sorry is this is confusing....but your right its all confusing.:)


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