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Old 03-26-2009, 01:15 AM   #46
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cats will go outside their boxes if they are not cleaned often enough.....maybe that was the problem. now that's a stinky smell more than a dog....euwww.... Now I'm starting to feel sorry for you... what a mess she's created.. dosent' sound like she is really a pet person 100%.. just doing the fun stuff.
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Old 03-26-2009, 05:49 AM   #47
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I have learned several tricks from reading this site and one of them may help your concern about the Yorkie's whereabouts...

Have you thought about putting a collar with bells on him? I prefer the breakaway kind that are generally considered a cat's collar. I plan to use a harness for walking so the collar witll simply be for the id, bell(s), and proof of rabies vaccination (required by state law).

Just from the outside looking in (from the descriptions you have provided), it appears that your girlfriend and you have totally opposite views on housekeeping. (For instance, clutter doesn't bother me but odors are a totally different story.) She sounds much more lax in her tolerance of uncleanliness than your military training is going to accept. Again, from the outside looking in, it seems to me that the training of the Yorkie is merely a symptom of a much bigger problem.....

You might also examine the way you are trying to "encourage" her to change. Since she is an educated, professional adult, she may be resisting your "training" methods. Your girlfriend, I mean......just a thought. (You sound very frustrated and I would suspect she feels she is being judged and criticized much like a child. The normal reaction? Rebel and/or do nothing. You might want to refine your approach and show a little of your "softer" side. In her apartment, you are not the highest ranking officer.)

And, by the way, one of the easiest ways to escape a situation you don't want to deal with is to fall asleep.

I think you are (more than likely) a well-intentioned guy who is forgetting to leave the military bearing at work. Just my view from the outside looking in based on your descriptions... Change your goal from a war to be won to a cooperative peacetime and I think you'll see a major improvement.
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Old 03-26-2009, 06:24 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by globemaster View Post
Boy I just disagree about that. I'll agree that we may have waited too long, but punishment has worked with every dog I've ever owned. All of them have been very fond of me (mostly English Setters, but also Cocker Spaniels and an Irish Setter). I've never owned a Yorkie though.

I'm thrilled he ran, hid and was afraid. It means he knows beyond a shadow of a doubt he doesn't need to be going inside. He'll continue to get that treatment every time, just like how he gets a treat every time he does go outside when he's supposed to.

Part of it is not being use to these dogs. My girlfriend's dog is 18 months old and before I started working with him a month and a half ago, you'd take him outside and he'd come right back upstairs and pee on the carpet right in front of you 15 minutes later. That is UNACCEPTABLE behavior. Part of me wonders if my girlfriend just did nothing the first 18 months to train him, because he had no idea he was being bad 6 weeks ago.

There is absolutely no physical harm done to the dog by rubbing his face in it and I don't care if he doesn't like me so long as he doesn't pee on everything and my girlfriend is happy with him. He means EVERYTHING to her and she means everything to me, so its up to me to make sure I don't end up living in pee.

Sorry so long...
No, shoving his face in it won't make him know it's not okay to go inside... it will make him HIDE it when he's inside so that YOU don't see it and punish him. He won't know the difference and probably thinks your just screaming at him and shoving his face in his poop because he went. That leads dogs to not want to go in front of you even outside cuz they think they're gonna yelled at for reliving themselves.
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Old 03-26-2009, 06:30 AM   #49
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LOL... Yeah... I attack a problem like this head on with a regimented plan. Her brand of training is essentially nonexistant, but I'm assuming it's because she doesn't know how and is also ebarrassed. I just think we need to be on the same page and consistent because anything else is confusing him. He's probably confused enough thanks to the cat. At a minimum the dog needs out every 3 hours and to be rewarded when he's good. If she wants to breed him then she needs to get on board with restricting his movement too.

I'm at my wits end, but as important as this is to me she needs to make it important to her too. I know she loves her dog, but I need help and not just with the fun stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOY View Post
I have learned several tricks from reading this site and one of them may help your concern about the Yorkie's whereabouts...

Have you thought about putting a collar with bells on him? I prefer the breakaway kind that are generally considered a cat's collar. I plan to use a harness for walking so the collar witll simply be for the id, bell(s), and proof of rabies vaccination (required by state law).

Just from the outside looking in (from the descriptions you have provided), it appears that your girlfriend and you have totally opposite views on housekeeping. (For instance, clutter doesn't bother me but odors are a totally different story.) She sounds much more lax in her tolerance of uncleanliness than your military training is going to accept. Again, from the outside looking in, it seems to me that the training of the Yorkie is merely a symptom of a much bigger problem.....

You might also examine the way you are trying to "encourage" her to change. Since she is an educated, professional adult, she may be resisting your "training" methods. Your girlfriend, I mean......just a thought. (You sound very frustrated and I would suspect she feels she is being judged and criticized much like a child. The normal reaction? Rebel and/or do nothing. You might want to refine your approach and show a little of your "softer" side. In her apartment, you are not the highest ranking officer.)

And, by the way, one of the easiest ways to escape a situation you don't want to deal with is to fall asleep.

I think you are (more than likely) a well-intentioned guy who is forgetting to leave the military bearing at work. Just my view from the outside looking in based on your descriptions... Change your goal from a war to be won to a cooperative peacetime and I think you'll see a major improvement.
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Old 03-26-2009, 06:30 AM   #50
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How do you think I found this site? The dog has already learned its bad in around a month which is more than he learned in the previous 17. Punishment is part of training. You punish your kids, there are "punishments" at work for underperformance, etc... Its all part of life. You're exaggerating when talking about breaking bones. I understand he's small and he never gets hit. I've yet to figure out how holding a dog's nose in pee hurts it.

This dog is not an "innocent baby". He's a dog that before me was known to pee on the carpet, right in front of your face, at 17 months, 15 minutes after being taken out. Thanks to me he's getting better about it. I can assure you there was zero improvement before me - I've been dating her for over 6 months.

The belly bands are needed to prevent the dog from marking. My girlfriend wants to breed him. The order didn't go through for whatever reason last time. The Ceaser Milan Videos did. If anyone has that link, it would help.

I will have a "big slobbery mouth dog" one day as that is the type of dog I'm most comfortable with. I'm a C-17 pilot right now and can't take care of one full time. However, this dog will probably one day be my dog, so long as I can successfully train it. The dog is VERY important to me. I'm upset that as important as the dog is to my girlfriend, his training is completely UNIMPORTANT to her. I don't care if he barks, chews, jumps up on people, or pulls on his leash - I'm not going to live in a zoo and a house isn't a Yorkie Urinal.

His comfort is also equally unimportant to her as I often ask her if he needs to be taken out and she evidently has no idea how often that should happen. Heck tonight she told me he DIDN'T need to be taken out AFTER he peed. Then she didn't clean up after it while I was walking "her" dog. He peed several times when I took him out - mostly marking.

I've bought books to read on the subject and been reading all kinds of posts on here. I've presented the books to my girlfriend and highlighted pertinent information for my girlfriend to read. She's done nothing to help out with his training.
I think it's really good you're so passionate about it, that's a good thing.
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Old 03-26-2009, 07:07 AM   #51
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All I can say is wow! I can't believe half of what I've read in this thread...it's amazing.

First of all...rubbing a dog's nose in it's urine or feces is so mean and old school...it does nothing for the proper care of training or teaching your dog. It does, however, feed into your desire to be in control of the situation or to relieve the stress of it.

There is a big difference between discipline and punishment. Discipline teaches in an appropriate way not to repeat the same behavior...punishment only releases anger and stress on the part of the punisher and teaches the poor victim nothing but fear and possibly aggression at some point.

You said the dog marked when you walked him. If he is not neutered I would consider having that done...it may fix the house training issues.

I would also consider a puppy playpen or x-pen for proper training until you get this under control. Can you install a doggie door with a potty area for him to come and go as he needs to? No dog should be allowed free run of your home until it is properly trained and that falls squarely on the shoulders of the humans who have taken it into their home and made it part of their family.

You can't blame or punish the dog for areas where you (or your girlfriend) have failed them by improper or no training...it all starts with you. Take a step back and look at the whole situation...you, your girlfriend and the dog...put all past feelings aside and be honest with yourself...once you have things in the proper perspective you should be able to start dealing with things appropriately.

Good luck...we're here for you if you need us.
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Old 03-26-2009, 07:15 AM   #52
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This dog is in its crate for 9 hours during the day?

That's way too long. That is a long time to wait to go to the bathroom, it's a long time to be physically confined, and it's a long time for a highly social animal to be alone.

You guys need to get a dog walker, or take him to doggy day care, or she needs to come home at lunch... something!
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Old 03-26-2009, 07:30 AM   #53
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Also, on marking vs. peeing: they may be driven by different needs, but I think if a dog smells its urine in the house, it's going to assume it's okay to pee indoors. I don't know if it's going to be feasible to let him mark indoors but forbid indoor pottying. Add that to the fact that the rules are different when you're not around, and you have one confused dog. Heck, I'm confused!

Basically, you need to clean up behind him with an enzyme cleaner like Nature's Miracle. All efforts should be made to take him out before he's forced to relieve himself in his crate. If that happens enough, he's going to get used to it and pee in there regardless.

I haven't had experience with a studded yorkie, but I've been around other types of terriers after they mated, and they still didn't mark indoors. They may have wanted to, but they were not allowed. I don't know, maybe it's different for yorkies since they are already such little pee monsters.
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Old 03-26-2009, 07:38 AM   #54
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There is a great book called "The Loved Dog" by, Tamar Geller. I think you would really benefit from reading it. It is not a story, but a wonderful training tool.

It has worked wonders for me and my 3 yorkies, potty training included.

My Boyfriend has only had large breed hunting dogs and has gone through the stages of frustration that you are going through right now. We have both read the book and the simplicity of the training works with our schedules (he works a split shift, kind of like you) and our lifestyle.

I am glad you came on here to seek help and I hope you find a solution to your housebreaking issues. I also hope you can convince your girlfriend to have her dog fixed. Maybe show her some articles and video on pet overpopulation. Also you can do a search on here to see what kind of defects yorkies are prone to and let her see that it is not going to make her $ in the long run if done properly. Breeding is WAAAYYY more complicated than it seems if you research it.

Please PM me if you have any questions.
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Old 03-26-2009, 08:00 AM   #55
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OMG THIS just made me sick, I cant believe you rub that poor dogs face in his urine and feces that is so mean and obviously not working! My heart broke when I read the dog runs and hides from you!! Im sick to my stomach thinking about that!! If my boyfriend did that to my dog I would be single the next day or buy him a choke chain for his own neck! I hope your treatment of this poor dog doesnt reflect how you would treat your furture children!! My children have peed on my floors my couch , peed my bed. Yikes!!
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Old 03-26-2009, 08:29 AM   #56
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Every 3 hours may not be enough. I said that if my dogs don't *ask* to go out and they haven't been out in 2-3 hours I will send them out, even if it means waking them up. They often ask to go out much more often than that. It's 11:15 and they have been out at 7:30, 9:45 (after a nap) and are now asking to go out again at 11:15...

Get a cleaner (I like simple solution, i think it smells better) and clean up the carpets and furniture. Confine or monitor him at all times, taking many potty breaks. Teach him to ring a bell when he needs to go outside. If you do this consistently for a few months, he will figure it out. DO NOT rub his nose in it!

By the way, marking outside does not mean you have to allow marking inside. Loki was neutered at 6 months, before he even learned to lift his leg. He is house trained but he still marks when we go on walks outside. He just pees twice in every yard. Actually, a walk is a good way to housetrain because not only will he pee until he is completely empty, but he will be tired and take a nap for a while so don't have to watch him so closely. As soon as he wakes up, go back outside. If you fall into a pattern like this you will learn when he needs to go. Also, you don't mention if pooping is an issue but if he is fed on a schedule he will poop on a schedule which is very helpful too.

I also agree that you should hire a dog walker. That way you can reinforce training during the day when you are not there and give him a potty break. He will also be a lot less hyper in the evenings if he gets a good walk mid-day.

Finally, you are not going to win the argument of rubbing his face in it - not because we are a bunch of wimpy Yorkie owners, but because it's scientifically unfounded. You never want your dog to be afraid of you. I know you said you have trained other dogs that way, but those dogs probably would have been trained no matter what methods you used. Yorkies take a lot longer to train, although being 18 months old at least you are talking every 2 hours not every 30 minutes! There is no reason to make the dog hate you when other methods are MORE effective.

By the way, what is the dog's name?
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Old 03-26-2009, 08:41 AM   #57
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P.S. - Beauty has nothing to do with breeding. Sammy is absolutely beautiful. She also doesn't conform to the standard (she is too long, Yorkie bodies should be a square) and she has grade 3 LP's. If your girlfriend didn't understand that sentence, she should not be breeding her dog. Breeding just to sell puppies is wrong. Did you know that often times Yorkies only have 1 or 2 puppies and vet bells and other expenses (like genetic testing, she will have him tested, won't she? oh and a C-SECTION) can far outpace the "profit" from the puppies.

There are the usual problems that come up, like liver shunt or luxating patellas. There are also rarer genetic conditions. Loki has a genetic disorder that requires medicine that costs $130 A MONTH. For the rest of his life. Is she prepared for something like that?

Also - typically the owner of the FEMALE is the one who sells the puppies. The owner of the male traditionally gets a small stud fee OR pick of the litter. The stud fee *will* be small since your dog is neither a proven "breeder" meaning no one knows what quality his puppies will be, nor is he a champion. You don't have to be on Westminster to be a champion - people who show their dogs attend local competitions to see if their dog measures up to the standard. Someone who has been breeding for a long time can pick out these qualities, but someone who is just a "dog owner" typically cannot. I love both of my dogs and I think they are gorgeous but I would never breed them.

I don't mean to pick on you - SHE is the one pushing this. But you should bring up these issues to see how educated she is on the subject. For example, you say she think she will get $800-$900 a puppy (which she won't, since she owns the male) but what if the female has 2 puppies and needs a C-section, does she know how much that costs? She should call a local vet and ask. More importantly, an owner of a female who will breed to an "unproven" male is likely as uneduated as your girlfriend on the subject, which complicates matters even more. I would strongly encourage you to bring up these issues with her, because perhaps she will re-consider getting your boy neutered which will help tremendously with your problem!
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Old 03-26-2009, 09:43 AM   #58
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This dog is in its crate for 9 hours during the day?

That's way too long. That is a long time to wait to go to the bathroom, it's a long time to be physically confined, and it's a long time for a highly social animal to be alone.

You guys need to get a dog walker, or take him to doggy day care, or she needs to come home at lunch... something!
He always makes it without messing up in his crate, but I agree with you that the amount of time stretches the boundaries of what is humane. I'm an hour drive round trip when working in her town so I can't do it. She could do it on her breaks but I'm guessing she won't be receptive.

I do understand that Yorkies like a ton of attention, but that is the least of my worries...
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Old 03-26-2009, 09:47 AM   #59
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Thanks! I may take you up on that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by hartygirl View Post
There is a great book called "The Loved Dog" by, Tamar Geller. I think you would really benefit from reading it. It is not a story, but a wonderful training tool.

It has worked wonders for me and my 3 yorkies, potty training included.

My Boyfriend has only had large breed hunting dogs and has gone through the stages of frustration that you are going through right now. We have both read the book and the simplicity of the training works with our schedules (he works a split shift, kind of like you) and our lifestyle.

I am glad you came on here to seek help and I hope you find a solution to your housebreaking issues. I also hope you can convince your girlfriend to have her dog fixed. Maybe show her some articles and video on pet overpopulation. Also you can do a search on here to see what kind of defects yorkies are prone to and let her see that it is not going to make her $ in the long run if done properly. Breeding is WAAAYYY more complicated than it seems if you research it.

Please PM me if you have any questions.
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Old 03-26-2009, 09:54 AM   #60
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That is the one thing that is working. After this happening twice he now at least knows peeing in the house is bad. If my girlfriend wants to break up with me for that then she's more than welcome and I wish her the best of luck finding a slob who's accepting enough of living in urine the rest of his life. This wasn't the point of the thread and my whole life it's worked in far less time.

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OMG THIS just made me sick, I cant believe you rub that poor dogs face in his urine and feces that is so mean and obviously not working! My heart broke when I read the dog runs and hides from you!! Im sick to my stomach thinking about that!! If my boyfriend did that to my dog I would be single the next day or buy him a choke chain for his own neck! I hope your treatment of this poor dog doesnt reflect how you would treat your furture children!! My children have peed on my floors my couch , peed my bed. Yikes!!
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