Parents related???

[MorkieAZ]

Hi all,
Spoke to a woman today who bought a puppy from a breeder in the paper and was concerned that she just found out by her AKC paper that the puppies parents are 1/2 brother and 1/2 sister with the same father...does she have anything to be worried about?

[yorkiekist]

She might have alot to worry about if the father of both parents is a poor specimen of the breed and has genetic health issues. Sounds like this brreeder might be a back yard breeder interested in $$$$$$$ only. Why else would this breeder breed this close??? Hope they take the pup for a vet check and hope they got a health guarantee. Lynn

[Ladyhawk]

Half-brother, half-sister breeding is inbreeding. As to whether or not there may be problems from it depends on the sire of the dogs whose genes were doubled. Debonair's Diamond Casanova is the result of the same inbreeding and he's a beautiful champion. You had better know the line in which you are inbreeding though as you will bring out the best but also the worst. She really needs to talk to the breeder and find out as much as she can about the sire of both parents and his lines health backgrounds.

[MorkieAZ]

Thanks for your input...very informative.

[littlewhip]

Iam not a breeder but i have a friend that breed her mother dog to the son, she said it was called inline breeding, I said i had never heard of it, also she said you can breed brother & sister thats not right is it. her and I disagree very frequently about breeding, I use my info from all the breeders here and she claims she has done it before because it was an oops liter she is breeding s**tzues ( spelling ).

[hasrv4fun]

Originally Posted by littlewhip

Iam not a breeder but i have a friend that breed her mother dog to the son, she said it was called inline breeding, I said i had never heard of it, also she said you can breed brother & sister thats not right is it. her and I disagree very frequently about breeding, I use my info from all the breeders here and she claims she has done it before because it was an oops liter she is breeding s**tzues ( spelling ).

Mother to son is INBREEDING - Inline breeding is entirely different and it takes a great deal of research of pedigrees and knowing the dogs in a bloodline. Line breeding when done properly has been very benificial to our and many other breeds. Inbreeding should never be taken on by a novice.
There are cases where it has improved the breed but also some great disasters have occured due to inbreeding. The genes are doubled and if you already have a problem, it may be far worse.

[tjdmom]

Originally Posted by littlewhip

Iam not a breeder but i have a friend that breed her mother dog to the son, she said it was called inline breeding, I said i had never heard of it, also she said you can breed brother & sister thats not right is it. her and I disagree very frequently about breeding, I use my info from all the breeders here and she claims she has done it before because it was an oops liter she is breeding s**tzues ( spelling ).

Mother to son, brother to sister. That is inbreeding. Cousins or other more distant relatives are called line breeding. Inbreeding should only be done by a very experienced breeder who is very knowledgeable about their lines as it can bring out the best in their lines but also the worst. It is used in rare situations when they want to quickly bring out a particular quality but can be risky as you can imagine. So yes, you can breed brother to sister but should you? Probably not, especially if you are not very experienced. I can imagine that it happens frequently by accident which is probably unfortunate. I should probably add that I am not a breeder and not an expert but have been doing a lot of research so this is what I have learned myself.

[littlewhip]

Originally Posted by hasrv4fun

Mother to son is INBREEDING - Inline breeding is entirely different and it takes a great deal of research of pedigrees and knowing the dogs in a bloodline. Line breeding when done properly has been very benificial to our and many other breeds. Inbreeding should never be taken on by a novice.
There are cases where it has improved the breed but also some great disasters have occured due to inbreeding. The genes are doubled and if you already have a problem, it may be far worse.

Thanks for info, I didnt think either one were good, but iam no breeder, i just read the post and try and educate myself from you all, so when I get into a debate I can offer advise, weather she takes it, is another thing.

[Yorkiekids]

Neither are good. Line breeding is for experts only.

[YorkieRose]

There was an article in the YT mag last year about inbreeding. Most show breeders find it is no longer beneficial to the breed..
Linebeeding is a very different and beneficial.

[SANDYSAND]

Advantages of Linebreeding

Now let’s turn to linebreeding and talk about its advantages and disadvantages. First the advantages:

1. The main purpose of linebreeding is to perpetuate the characteristics of a great individual. The generations of Beagles come and go very quickly. Linebreeding is a way of “keeping that great one around” a little longer, even after he’s dead and gone. Linebreeding is choosing which ancestors shall influence your line in the future, and which ancestor shall have a diminished effect. This system of breeding puts you, the breeder more in control.

2. Not only perpetuating certain characteristics, but actually improving yours is also possible. The upgrading of your stock can be done with judicious linebreeding. What actually happens is that the pedigree is narrowed to a few closely related lines of descent. This “purifies” the pedigree and enables the breeder to have a little more control on the outcome of a mating. As Brackett puts it (on page 3 of his book) “It discourages variability and reduces it to a minimum.” I usually say that the “pulls” are more often going in the same direction.

3. Another advantage of linebreeding is that results can be more easily predicted. The breeder can thus do more than mate a bitch and hope for good results. He can expect a greater percentage of good hounds to come from the mating.

Disadvantages of Linebreeding

The disadvantages of linebreeding would be conversely:

1. If the “great individual” you are perpetuating has some bad traits, they will also be perpetuated, perhaps even magnified. Thus it is possible to strive for one set of good characteristics surfacing that you did not know where there. So you had better know all you can about that great one you are trying to perpetuate.

2. Another disadvantage of linebreeding is that it simply may not work. Some lines just do not perpetuate well. They tend to be “swallowed up” by whatever they are bred to. You have to be prepared for this, although it happens in only a few cases.

3. Finally, linebreeding (and inbreeding) necessitates “selection” or culling out of undesirables, which many breeders just will not do. They become “kennel blind” and can see no wrong in their hounds, or they fall in love with every one they own and cannot part with them. (I will have more to say on this subject later in a separate article.)

If you decide to practice linebreeding, you may want to breed your bitch to two different sons of a great stud that is dead, or you may want to breed a grandson back to a great brood bitch of yours (to perpetuate her blood), or a granddaughter back to a grandfather, etc. These are common examples of linebreeding.

The pedigrees of old-time hounds had certain males reoccurring in them two or three times or more as the breeders the influence they were having on the breed and practiced linebreeding. I could name a famous stud in each past decade that appears in most Beagle pedigrees, somewhere more than once. (I won’t be that specific though.) Now, with the resurgence in popularity of the “gundog” or “rabbit hunting” Beagle (away from the brace or non-hunting Beagle), there is a conscious effort to back to some of the more traditional bloodlines and forget contemporary strains. Here again, there may be some linebreeding going on to accomplish this.

Linebreeding is choosing which ancestors shall have their influence conserved and spread and which ancestors shall be allowed to diminish in importance with each generation. Different breeders may have different ideas as to what hounds shall be carried on into the future and what hounds shall not. That’s probably good. That way the breed doesn’t completely evolve to one or two popular bloodlines.

[hasrv4fun]

Originally Posted by Yorkiekids

Neither are good. Line breeding is for experts only.

I beg to differ from you on this - Line breeding is very benificial when used properly. I have spent most of 47 years researching pedigrees and mostly line breeding with the occasional out cross with VERY good results both confirmation and health wise. Line breeding is far more predictable than out crosses.

[MorkieAZ]

Originally Posted by hasrv4fun

I beg to differ from you on this - Line breeding is very benificial when used properly. I have spent most of 47 years researching pedigrees and mostly line breeding with the occasional out cross with VERY good results both confirmation and health wise. Line breeding is far more predictable than out crosses.

So do you believe that this puppy will be fine if the sire to both parents has no health issues??

[Ladyhawk]

So true!!

Originally Posted by hasrv4fun

I beg to differ from you on this - Line breeding is very benificial when used properly. I have spent most of 47 years researching pedigrees and mostly line breeding with the occasional out cross with VERY good results both confirmation and health wise. Line breeding is far more predictable than out crosses.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Yorkiekids

Neither are good. Line breeding is for experts only.

Incorrect, Linebreeding is what every good breeder does to set and maintain type. Occassional outcrossing is necessary to avoid boxing yourself in.