Using 2 differant male for mating.
 

Ok so Lucy was on heat last week. I let her and Teddy mate. They have already gave me 2 litters before.

My little 10 months old Tom Pouce was trying on Lucy VERY HARD but couldn't make it at all, and he is very young so I didn't really plan on using him. But they did it , they got 1 tie! :eek: They the donut bed!! Tom Pouce use the side to reach higher!! wise dogs!!! lol.

I am very exited about this upcoming litter... Hope I get some pup from both male!

So did anyone experience that before? Could you tell which pup come from which male? I think I will. Just curious to ear about you experience.

You're going to have to DNA the litter to tell who fathered each puppy.

Too many times a female has been bred to 2 males and registration has been questioned because the DNA of the parents didn't match up ot the DNA of the pup.

You cannot just guess based on how they look. You must DNA the litter and both males.
I have heard of one of my club member that did AI (Artifical Insemanation) of a champion stud that they had the sperm frozen and shipped in. It was some special BIS Winner - reason they had it shipped to them. And they for some reason could not send the girl. To make sure they got a litter, they also bred their dog to another male. Then when the litter was born, they simply DNA the litter. For one reason or another they could not pass up breeding their girl. Now grant you, their female was a finished champion and a group winner and both sires used were exceptional. They just wanted to make sure she had a litter just in case the frozen sperm did not produce any pups. I am not sure what the outcome was. I just remember them talking about this at one of my meetings and how excited they were and hoped it worked. They were not concerned about doing the DNA and at least they were doing it. I do not think it is a problem as long as it is done to prove who are the parents.
T.

yup you will have to DNA each puppy.

Must DNA
 

If you are going to register the puppies then all must be DNA'ed- the puppies and both males.

I agree with the above. If you plan on registering the puppies you will have to have them all dna'd, both males, and the female. Then if you have puppies from both fathers in the litter I believe there is also a dual registration fee for the litter.

Yes, if you are going to register the litter you will have to DNA both boys, the mom, and all the pups. It can be pretty costly from what I have heard. Some breeders do this to get pups from 2 males for their own reasons. You then may have to pay for the DNA results to be read at $40 each reading. Then there is an additional fee of $200 in addition to regular registry. it seems pretty complicated. Here is the info for you: American Kennel Club - Multiple-Sired Litter Registration

Yes, it can be costly - But necessary if you want them registered. You must prove whom the parents are for each pup. Reason you must have all of them DNAed - Both males and all pups! You know who the mom is - she had them. I am not sure or not if you must have the mom DNAed. I am sure that AKC can help you through this if you have any questions.
T.

Lucy and Teddy a aren't reg. I wasn't thinking of breeding when I got them.

Only Tom Pouce is registered .

I just didn't think Tom Pouce was going to make it so I didn't separated him from Lucy.

So no need for reg.

I got a new little puppies female reg ( with a great pedigree, tones of champions in her blood line) that will be Tom Pouce girlfriend when she get older.

I am serious about breeding, So when Lucy Teddy and there daughter Mika retired to become my pet only, I will focus on my 2 registered dog for breeding...


Thank you all for your comments

should spay or neuter!!!!
 

This is a common problem ( ugh) with having pets that you do not spay or neuter - these that are not registered or intended to be bred should be spayed or neutered ASAP- to not do so is no different than what are so called BYB as you will again be breeding unregistered dogs- believe me it will happen again if you have a male and female - I am sure you are now aware of that.

Spay and neuter your pets and do not support puppy mills -JMO but i believe it to the bottom of my heart !!!!!

I noticed on your website that Tom Pouce is CKC registered, I don't know if that is the Canada Kennel Club or the Continental Kennel Club but if your female is from one of those registeries then you need to check with whatever their rules are. One of the sires is a 10 lbs male and the other looks smaller so there will most like be differences in how the pups look but at a young age you won't be able to tell so in all fairness to the people you sell the pups to you should just be honest with them and sell the pups without papers unless you want to go through all the expense of DNA testing the pups. Also if the young male bred the female a week later then you might have some idea who the dad is based on the date the puppies are born but that is no sure thing.

UGH! No comment needed. This is why I try to stay away form the Breeder section here.
T.

Chantalb......you were posting at the same time I was so I just read your post and I see the mom is not registered so I guess the only question is to if you will be able to tell who the father is and I think I answered that. Since to two sires looks very different you might be able to tell when the puppies get older and you might be able to go by when the pups are born. If both males bred her fairly close together then she could possibly have pups from both sires.

Biting my tongue here too!

I'm afraid these are the kind of actions that you will regret later when you want the respect of the breeders you want to be like someday. If you want to be taken seriously, you have to take breeding seriously.

I'm very confused with this thread. The bitch is 8lbs, okay, one stud is 8lbs (??) one stud is only 10 months old? Only one of the three is registered(??) And you are happy about this three some?
Sorry, I usually don't comment on things like this, but I'm confused?:confused::(

I AM NOT A BYB!! You really hurt my feeling.

I didn't breed Lucy and Teddy by accident, I just wasn't planning on breeding I them when I got them. But both last litters and this upcoming one where well plan.

I keep one little girl from there first litter,Mika. I just breed her past April with THE BEST REGISTERED MALE I FOUND (cost me $500).

I Breed Lucy with Teddy on day 12-13-14 . I watch closely when Tom Pouce was trying,But He was too short. I separate Lucy form the males the rest of the time. Tom Pouce find a way to make it on the 15, I wasn't planning on breeding him to Lucy but they got a tie. So things happen,And yes I am extremely curious to see what will come out of this litter.


Now, as breeding became a passion for me. I really do want to improved the breed and be a respectable breeder.

So I got Tom Pouce 4 months ago. He really is outstanding looking with dark silky coat,short nose,leg,square shape, and greatest temper. I really did my best to get a top quality male. and He got a few champions on his bloodline .Open right cost me $2750.

2 months latter I got Astra .And I am EXTREMELY proud of my last addition.. Astra will be around 6 lbs,she is PERFECT! Her pedigree is 90% champion including some Joymason, Adanta, Blooms Bury, Braecliffes. She cost me $2500.

So I got 5 dogs, They are my Babies, When my 3 unregistered dog will be retiring to be my forever pet, I won't keep any of there puppies., I will focus on breeding only my 2 Registered dogs.

Everyone Have to start somewhere you know...

I work as a real estate agent, I am home a lot on my Pc with the dogs. Very rarely they stay home alone for more then 4 hours.

And I am also a certified cynologiste ( dog breeder,trainer,behaviorist) from wwwcyno.com I study there (in Quebec) for 2 years. I was planning on becoming a assistant vet but my allergies got so bad, I couldn't do it.

I sold my condo last spring and got a townhouse (only for the dogs to have a backyard and a bigger bedroom). The dog have there own loft for night time,and when I am not home. with cable tv, fireplace, grooming table etc

I have record of everything, litters,breeding,heats,puppies weigh,etc

I microchip the puppies and I am EXTREMELY picky when placing the babies.

They stay in my living room until 4 weeks old.then they graduated to the dog loft.

I spend $$$$$$ on the puppies and the parents. Don't make much money with the breeding, but it give me so much joy. I love my puppies

The dogs are all spoiled.

Sorry for that long reply but I AM DOING MY BEST HERE. Anyway. I don't want to start a fight. And hope you guys don't think I am a bad person or byb.

Not bad feeling...

Everyone Have to start somewhere you know...[/B]


This answer seems to fit everyones as an excuse . If everyone have to start somewhere , why don't they start on the right foot instead of starting with scrap ?

Yes, Everyone has to start somewhere but once you know what is the right thing to do you are held responsible to do it. We've all retired gals early because they didn't make the grade. As you grow you refine your goals and breed accordingly. Sure having puppies around is fun and can bring in a bit of extra cash but is that worth the risk to the mother's life? If you can't presently breed in a way that you will be proud of, what is wrong with waiting until you can?

Just curious, what is the dog loft?

wow!!! I am impressed with you in the fact you would and did come on this forum and be honest.. for there are show breeders that if honest would say they all started someplace and yes.. if they looked back would have been called a back yard breeder,...I have been told this.. and by yes,(show breeders) not all show breeders start from getting a champion dog first.. yet can belittle some one like you..but I also know many that would not get into this kind of behavior at the same time..
I am not saying I agree with you or disagree.. I am just saying I try not to judge.. for as I have said before..
Critisim is!!!!!
The disapproval of people not for having faults!!!!
but for having faults that are different from their own..
I have seen many people leave this forum for reasons like this.. but staying here and eduacating yourself is a great idea.. if people can help eduacate with some way of caring.. I for one will not just follow the lead.. I am myself.. and I also try to better myself.. and I have finally met show breeders that like me and are willing to help should I want to go farther in this..anne

It is my family room that I use as the dog bedrooms. It is the biggest room of the house and I spend a lot of time there grooming and having quality time with the dogs.

The pups have there little play pen in the loft but also spend free time with the oder dogs when I am around .( in the living room at feedings time,when I watch tv at night and in the backyard when weather is nice and I work on my laptop there).

By 8 weeks there are totally free in the loft no more play pen.

I will take some pic of the loft and post it this week. I am still working on it but I think it is coming up very nice. Got Tiles flooring, 2 air cleaner,1 window fan, Fireplace,Cable tv, Beds, grooming table,pee-pad area, lots of room to run and play. They have there own bathroom with a little bath.

I really am going all the way for my dogs and all my friend family think I am crazy. :rolleyes:

Yes, show people did have to start somewhere. My first yorkie was a pet. I then adopted two yorkies from someone that was moving to another country and could not take her two yorkies with her. They were very nice. I bred one of them to a champion - my first litter and got some cute babies. By then I was a member of a breed club - reason - I wanted to learn all I could to do right for the breed. I researched, read a ton of books, went to top breeders/show exhibitor homes, watch and listened carefully, and went to as many shows and matches as I could. I also talked to judges and had them go over my dogs. I wanted to learn as much as I could. I then bought my third yorkie from the best I could -yes, it was from a show home and a top line with champion parents. I showed myself and then also later had a handler. It is so important to get your hands on some very good examples of our breed - to feel and touch what a good yorkie should look like, and not just look with your eyes. I never have stopped learning. I then retired for awhile to raise a family of my own.

This second time returning - I got the best I could - and yes, again from show homes. I have, after 3 years being back,- have two champions and hopefully more on the way. When I breed, I breed to the best I can and to make the best match. I am trying to do all I can to protect the breed and to breed to standard. I have also spayed/neutered what did not pan out. You have to. It is all about being responsible. And yes, it does cost a lot of money! I do all this because I am very pasionate about my breed. Not to say you do not. I am sharing with you my feelings and how I got started. If you want to do what is right - you breed only to standard and not to just have a litter, because you say you are learning.

We do not want to scare people off (including you) - we are just trying to educate. Why?? For our breed's benefit. Just like someone educated us - we then must return the favor, because we care. If only uneducated people were on YT - what kind of forum would this be?? What would happen to our breed?? It is also important not to turn away the educated people that are on YT. JMO - We are also risking our reputation being on here. Why? Because we do care so much for our breed. And we are really trying to help. :thumbup:
T.

very nice post..anne

Ya I do understand that I shouldn't breed unregistered dogs :embarasse... You guys have all right to disagree with me. But I am puppy addicted! lol

And I am planning on spay/neuter Lucie and Teddy AS SOON as Astra is ready to have puppies ( but she is only 5 months).

So yes ok I will admit, I am not as perfect as you guys.

I just came here to share my experience and learn from you all.



mypreciouspups: as always, your words are well chosen... I have a lot of respect and admiration for you. :thumbup:



Ok group , hope we are still all friends here...

love you all....

It is a bit late for Lucy now as she is already expecting, But I know you guys are right...

I won't breed her next heat obviously (never do twice in a row) so it might be her last litter anyway. I am seriously going to thing about fixing them both... I really don't want a bad reputation as a breeder :(

It is a big decision...

Awwww you guys are not easy... But I do know you all have the same good intentions... breeding in respect of the breed..

I know we're tough, the breed deserves it. I've let several gals go to pet homes that I wish could have stayed and I know others who have done the same. I know a fellow exhibitor who purchased a pup unseen from a judge. That poor yorkie gal has the longest muzzle I've ever seen on a yorkie, no coat and not much in the way of leg either. Poor baby looks like a Doxie snuck in on her pedigree. My friend can't show her in conformation but is giving her a try in rally. I lost alot of respect for the man who sold her the dog, respect as both a breeder and a judge. If he thought this little gal was a good example of the breed I can honestly say that he has no eye for a dog. What you produce is reflection of you and you want to be able to be proud of it.