Topline Problem! - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Cupy · 07-08-2007, 11:02 AM

Hi!

I have 6 months old female. I bought her when she was 3 months. I was looking for very promising show potenciale yorkie. The breeder asure me that she is very good, very perspective and very beautifull puppy. From the start I was not sure about her topline, becouse it didn`t look very well. I belive the breeder, becouse she has a lots of experiance, and thought this is becouse of her hair. But after that I was looking at her topline every day and find out that her topline is not level and her back is higher. She appears to be low in the shoulders and has a low tail set. I wrote to breeder and she is still trying to convince me that this is normal and that she will change. I can`t belive that becouse the situation is the same since I got her and didn`t changed at all.

So please tell me what do you think, what experience do you have. Is it true that the rear is almost always higher at this age, by a yorkie and that this will change later????

lisatodd · 07-08-2007, 11:16 AM

i am not a show breeder but there are some here. i have read thru some threads where the topline can change either get better or get worse. i hope they come online soon for you to discuss with them

Ladyhawk · 07-08-2007, 12:14 PM

The topline can go through changes while the legs and chest are growing and filling out. I've found that this has usually leveled out by 6 monthes in a female though. The tailset is a different matter all together. A low tailset will mess up the silhouette and will not get any higher as the dog matures. My mentor said to take a look at the pup at 8 weeks and not look back until they are finished growing. Do you have an exhibitor/breeder near you that can go over the dog? Is there a show in your area so that maybe a judge can look over her? Sounds to me like you need a second opinion other than your breeder.

Olivier · 07-08-2007, 01:09 PM

Do you have pictures of her ?

Who is the breeder of your Yorkie ?

Mardelin · 07-08-2007, 01:23 PM

A good topline shouldn't falter. It can go through changes but, when watching a dog gait it should stay together.

A breeder/exhibitor begins assessing their potentials at 8 weeks....and holds on to the potentials until approximately 7 months. A show potential should never be bought as early as 3 months of age.

The tail set will never correct itself...if there as a puppy it will remain as such. It should feel as if it is coming directly from the spine, no drop

YorkieRose · 07-08-2007, 01:35 PM

Do you have any photo's..and do you have a guarantee as to show quality?
In my experince, I do not find top lines change drastically...I do not recall a good top line at 12 or 16 wks or 6 months going bad...it is set.
I have rarely seen a roach back change for the better..but I have seen one bitch who was very low in the shoulders as a puppy, suddenly have her front legs grow to a level top line abotu 12 months..but only once.

If you trust the breeder and she has sold you a potential from a line of solid top lines, then all you can do is wait and trust she will replace the pup if it is not what you were promised...or compensate in price.

Cupy · 07-08-2007, 01:51 PM

Thanks to all for your opinions. Breeder who sold me the puppy is very famous breeder and she is the judge too. Her pedigree is also good.
I could belive that this could change maybe till she stop growing but not later. But breeder said to me that this can change till 18 months????

This is very hard to belive, becouse yorkies stop growing at 7 months.
She did not gave me guarantee that she will be good for shows on paper, she just told me that a lots of times. She said this to me by mail too. She gave me only teeth guarantee.

About pictures, I don`t think you will see anything from pictures, becouse the topline can look good on pictures if I raise her like it looks good. But the fact is that when she moves the topline is not level.
I will put a short video on this forum and this is the only way you will able to see her topline in movement.

Cupy · 07-08-2007, 02:57 PM

O.k. here you can find some short videos:

http://motiono.com/watch/OsRNMTct
http://motiono.com/watch/OmRNMiRm
http://motiono.com/watch/msRNMioN

YorkieRose · 07-08-2007, 04:44 PM

All I could get is 3 "still" photo's..this is an extremely tough call. I can not say your Yorkie has a bad topline..there looks to be slight dip at the shoulder area, but it could be due to the fact she is a touch long in the body..I do feel her topline would be much better if she were more compact..

I am told in some countries they tend to show a larger in leg and body type as we have in many parts of the USA.
If the seller is a very famous breeder/judge with a good reputation and top pedigrees, then you will have to wait it out...is she close to you? If so, at some point you will be walking into the ring with her breeding and if it has a bad topline etc, I would think she would be embarrassed..but that is my thinking.

Ladyhawk · 07-08-2007, 04:53 PM

From the clips she does seem a bit long in the body, slightly raised over the loin, and with a bit of a low tailset. She's cute though. Has the breeder seen the clips? I'd talk to her again before I put her in the ring. I agree that her reputation is on the line.

Cupy · 07-08-2007, 11:39 PM

Breeder lives 450 km far away from me. I did sent her this videos and suggest her to take the puppy back or reduce the price, becouse the price was to high for per quality yorki. If her topline stays like it is I think we have no chance in ring! But I got answer that I should not listen to other breeders becouse they are jealous

All breeders I was talking to said they can`t belive this topline will change, maybe it will a little bit, but it will not become a perfect!
I have this filling that famous breeders somethimes don`t care if they sold a bad puppy. I heard later she sold a very bad yorkie to a president of yorkie club too

So as I can see she don`t care a lot.

So what can I do???? Do you have any idea??? I wrote her again and ask her why she don`t want to take her back if she is so sure that she is very good for shows and that this topline will change. In this case she could sell her to someone else for the same or even higher price wouldn`t she???? Yorkie is now 6 months old, she almost change her teeths so if she is so good, she could sell her for more money.

YorkieRose · 07-09-2007, 11:12 AM

What can any of us here gain or lose by giving you an honest opinion of your Yorkie? You will find some breeders running another down when you are in the buying process..but your bitch is bought, why would I evaluate her unfairly? My opinion will pull no weight in your favor with the breeder..or anyone elses opinion in the Yorkie world as it sounds right now.

I think you are stuck...it is possible to breed this bitch to a quality champion and hope for your own for the ring? Her top line may be better, but not good enough for the ring as she matures...you can decide at the time of breeding age. IF you want to throw in the towel and place her as a pet, she would do well, but if not, all you can do it wait and wait some more...

If you are anxious to get a ring dog, then look for one in the 6 to 9 month age...with a guarantee of being a show quality..NOT potential...you see, you were sold a Yorkie with potential, not a show qualtiy Yorkie...show quality means..RING READY..a potential starts with the conformation, pedigree etc to develop into a ring quality dog...but there is also a possiblity it will not...so we use the term POTENTIAL...

Best wishes to you...

Jan L. · 07-09-2007, 11:29 AM

I agree with Yorkierose.
Also another way to check topline is when the dog is wet. Ane when the head is down eating you should see a straight line.
I've had Yorkies for 30+ years but have only been showing 1 year this month.
have learned a few expensive($$$$$) lessons. Most top show breeders will not sell show pup until at least 6 mos. old and then usually only to a show home.
Your girl looks to have a very pretty face.

Cupy · 07-09-2007, 11:56 AM

"you were sold a Yorkie with potential, not a show qualtiy Yorkie".

I understand that but I thought that buying a potencial show quality puppy means that at time when it is sold it looks good and promissing. Of course development can go bad and this is the buyer risk. But if at that time when breeder is selling the puppy the topline looks bad he should not sell it like promissing one. And if he has a lots of experience he is the one who should know which one is promissing and wich one isn`t! Otherwise what is the different between show potencial and pet puppy unless of course the price!

And what I think is that I was sold a pet puppy not potential one, becouse when I bought her she already had this topline!

Mardelin · 07-09-2007, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cupy

"you were sold a Yorkie with potential, not a show qualtiy Yorkie".

I understand that but I thought that buying a potencial show quality puppy means that at time when it is sold it looks good and promissing. Of course development can go bad and this is the buyer risk. But if at that time when breeder is selling the puppy the topline looks bad he should not sell it like promissing one. And if he has a lots of experience he is the one who should know which one is promissing and wich one isn`t! Otherwise what is the different between show potencial and pet puppy unless of course the price!

And what I think is that I was sold a pet puppy not potential one, becouse when I bought her she already had this topline!

Very true, but as a show buyer you also need to have an eye for what is good and what isn't. If at the time you obtained the dog and you saw the problem, the dog should have gone back.

07-08-2007, 11:02 AM	#1
Cupy Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Slovenia Posts: 185	Topline Problem! Hi! I have 6 months old female. I bought her when she was 3 months. I was looking for very promising show potenciale yorkie. The breeder asure me that she is very good, very perspective and very beautifull puppy. From the start I was not sure about her topline, becouse it didn`t look very well. I belive the breeder, becouse she has a lots of experiance, and thought this is becouse of her hair. But after that I was looking at her topline every day and find out that her topline is not level and her back is higher. She appears to be low in the shoulders and has a low tail set. I wrote to breeder and she is still trying to convince me that this is normal and that she will change. I can`t belive that becouse the situation is the same since I got her and didn`t changed at all. So please tell me what do you think, what experience do you have. Is it true that the rear is almost always higher at this age, by a yorkie and that this will change later???? Last edited by Cupy; 07-08-2007 at 11:03 AM.

07-08-2007, 11:16 AM	#2
lisatodd Little Boogers Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: virginia beach, va Posts: 4,460	i am not a show breeder but there are some here. i have read thru some threads where the topline can change either get better or get worse. i hope they come online soon for you to discuss with them __________________ lisa lisa and the cult jam yorkies

07-08-2007, 12:14 PM	#3
Ladyhawk YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 2,808	The topline can go through changes while the legs and chest are growing and filling out. I've found that this has usually leveled out by 6 monthes in a female though. The tailset is a different matter all together. A low tailset will mess up the silhouette and will not get any higher as the dog matures. My mentor said to take a look at the pup at 8 weeks and not look back until they are finished growing. Do you have an exhibitor/breeder near you that can go over the dog? Is there a show in your area so that maybe a judge can look over her? Sounds to me like you need a second opinion other than your breeder. __________________ Tami

07-08-2007, 01:23 PM	#5
Mardelin Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: California Posts: 14,776	A good topline shouldn't falter. It can go through changes but, when watching a dog gait it should stay together. A breeder/exhibitor begins assessing their potentials at 8 weeks....and holds on to the potentials until approximately 7 months. A show potential should never be bought as early as 3 months of age. The tail set will never correct itself...if there as a puppy it will remain as such. It should feel as if it is coming directly from the spine, no drop __________________ Mardelin *Yorkshire* *Terriers* Last edited by Mardelin; 07-08-2007 at 01:24 PM.

07-08-2007, 01:35 PM	#6
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	topline Do you have any photo's..and do you have a guarantee as to show quality? In my experince, I do not find top lines change drastically...I do not recall a good top line at 12 or 16 wks or 6 months going bad...it is set. I have rarely seen a roach back change for the better..but I have seen one bitch who was very low in the shoulders as a puppy, suddenly have her front legs grow to a level top line abotu 12 months..but only once. If you trust the breeder and she has sold you a potential from a line of solid top lines, then all you can do is wait and trust she will replace the pup if it is not what you were promised...or compensate in price. Last edited by YorkieRose; 07-08-2007 at 01:36 PM.

07-08-2007, 01:09 PM	#4
Olivier Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 2,999	Do you have pictures of her ? Who is the breeder of your Yorkie ?

07-08-2007, 01:51 PM	#7
Cupy Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Slovenia Posts: 185	Thanks to all for your opinions. Breeder who sold me the puppy is very famous breeder and she is the judge too. Her pedigree is also good. I could belive that this could change maybe till she stop growing but not later. But breeder said to me that this can change till 18 months???? This is very hard to belive, becouse yorkies stop growing at 7 months. She did not gave me guarantee that she will be good for shows on paper, she just told me that a lots of times. She said this to me by mail too. She gave me only teeth guarantee. About pictures, I don`t think you will see anything from pictures, becouse the topline can look good on pictures if I raise her like it looks good. But the fact is that when she moves the topline is not level. I will put a short video on this forum and this is the only way you will able to see her topline in movement.

07-08-2007, 02:57 PM	#8
Cupy Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Slovenia Posts: 185	O.k. here you can find some short videos: http://motiono.com/watch/OsRNMTct http://motiono.com/watch/OmRNMiRm http://motiono.com/watch/msRNMioN

07-08-2007, 04:44 PM	#9
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	topline All I could get is 3 "still" photo's..this is an extremely tough call. I can not say your Yorkie has a bad topline..there looks to be slight dip at the shoulder area, but it could be due to the fact she is a touch long in the body..I do feel her topline would be much better if she were more compact.. I am told in some countries they tend to show a larger in leg and body type as we have in many parts of the USA. If the seller is a very famous breeder/judge with a good reputation and top pedigrees, then you will have to wait it out...is she close to you? If so, at some point you will be walking into the ring with her breeding and if it has a bad topline etc, I would think she would be embarrassed..but that is my thinking.

07-08-2007, 04:53 PM	#10
Ladyhawk YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 2,808	From the clips she does seem a bit long in the body, slightly raised over the loin, and with a bit of a low tailset. She's cute though. Has the breeder seen the clips? I'd talk to her again before I put her in the ring. I agree that her reputation is on the line. __________________ Tami

07-08-2007, 11:39 PM	#11
Cupy Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Slovenia Posts: 185	Breeder lives 450 km far away from me. I did sent her this videos and suggest her to take the puppy back or reduce the price, becouse the price was to high for per quality yorki. If her topline stays like it is I think we have no chance in ring! But I got answer that I should not listen to other breeders becouse they are jealous All breeders I was talking to said they can`t belive this topline will change, maybe it will a little bit, but it will not become a perfect! I have this filling that famous breeders somethimes don`t care if they sold a bad puppy. I heard later she sold a very bad yorkie to a president of yorkie club too So as I can see she don`t care a lot. So what can I do???? Do you have any idea??? I wrote her again and ask her why she don`t want to take her back if she is so sure that she is very good for shows and that this topline will change. In this case she could sell her to someone else for the same or even higher price wouldn`t she???? Yorkie is now 6 months old, she almost change her teeths so if she is so good, she could sell her for more money.

07-09-2007, 11:12 AM	#12
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	bitch What can any of us here gain or lose by giving you an honest opinion of your Yorkie? You will find some breeders running another down when you are in the buying process..but your bitch is bought, why would I evaluate her unfairly? My opinion will pull no weight in your favor with the breeder..or anyone elses opinion in the Yorkie world as it sounds right now. I think you are stuck...it is possible to breed this bitch to a quality champion and hope for your own for the ring? Her top line may be better, but not good enough for the ring as she matures...you can decide at the time of breeding age. IF you want to throw in the towel and place her as a pet, she would do well, but if not, all you can do it wait and wait some more... If you are anxious to get a ring dog, then look for one in the 6 to 9 month age...with a guarantee of being a show quality..NOT potential...you see, you were sold a Yorkie with potential, not a show qualtiy Yorkie...show quality means..RING READY..a potential starts with the conformation, pedigree etc to develop into a ring quality dog...but there is also a possiblity it will not...so we use the term POTENTIAL... Best wishes to you...

07-09-2007, 11:29 AM	#13
Jan L. Donating YT Addict Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 547	I agree with Yorkierose. Also another way to check topline is when the dog is wet. Ane when the head is down eating you should see a straight line. I've had Yorkies for 30+ years but have only been showing 1 year this month. have learned a few expensive($$$$$) lessons. Most top show breeders will not sell show pup until at least 6 mos. old and then usually only to a show home. Your girl looks to have a very pretty face. __________________ Peace, Jan Click HERE for Photo Album

07-09-2007, 11:56 AM	#14
Cupy Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Slovenia Posts: 185	"you were sold a Yorkie with potential, not a show qualtiy Yorkie". I understand that but I thought that buying a potencial show quality puppy means that at time when it is sold it looks good and promissing. Of course development can go bad and this is the buyer risk. But if at that time when breeder is selling the puppy the topline looks bad he should not sell it like promissing one. And if he has a lots of experience he is the one who should know which one is promissing and wich one isn`t! Otherwise what is the different between show potencial and pet puppy unless of course the price! And what I think is that I was sold a pet puppy not potential one, becouse when I bought her she already had this topline! Last edited by Cupy; 07-09-2007 at 11:58 AM.