The Tale of the Tail

[swan]

What's up my Yorkie peeps! It's been a while but I finally have some time to post here. As many of you know there is a debate in the United States about allowing dogs with undocked tails to show in AKC shows. I have seen them out at a couple shows. In one instance the dog was dismissed from the ring and in the other the dog was allowed to show but didn't place. I believe we have the opposite problem in Europe where American dogs can't be shown because of the docked tail.

So what do we do?

I don't have an answer, but I do side with the AKC on this one. I prefer the docked tail for many reasons. I have seen puppies getting their tails docked and its really the equivalent of a circumsion. A broken tail on an adult dog is a painful, expensive, and difficult problem to have.

As always, just my humble opinion, curious what others thoughts are.

[hollie91999]

I love the docked tail look on yorkies. I have never seen in person a yorkie with a full tail but they just look off balance to me (in pictures).

[lovestiny]

my boy has a natural tail and he is absolutely gorgeous...both of his parents are absolutely beautiful show dogs from Canada. My girl with her medium docked tail is adorable but she cannot express herself the same way with her tail. I have both so I can be objective. He does not look off balance - quite the opposite.

[swan]

There is no question that there are many beautiful dogs with undocked tails. That is not really a debate. The problem is, it clearly states in the standard that the dog should have a medium docked tail. Judges are put in a tough spot. Handlers really want the AKC to change it because as it stands now they can't take clients from Europe which takes money out of their pocket

[lovestiny]

i was responding to the poster's opinion on looking unbalanced, in contrast it is quite the opposite.

Also, to keep you in the loop, since I am also a professional doula- circumcision, is also being drastically reduced with each passing year here in the USA. Not sure if you realized that but wanted to mention since you were comparing the two. Circumcision is actually painful, I have seen it done, have you? Unless it is for cultural or religious reasons, parents aren't doing as often in the US.

[yorkiemini]

The US judges have to follow the AKC/YTCA show standard for the breed in this country. Europe has a different standard. Europe will not change as they have deemed docking as cruel and disfiguring -- this was done by law, no dog owners were consulted. The only change where folks could show in US and europe would mean that the US will have to change their standard for the breed.

The discussion comes up frequently at YTCA and at Roving events, but no one has a solution.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by swan

There is no question that there are many beautiful dogs with undocked tails. That is not really a debate. The problem is, it clearly states in the standard that the dog should have a medium docked tail. Judges are put in a tough spot. Handlers really want the AKC to change it because as it stands now they can't take clients from Europe which takes money out of their pocket

Tail docked to a medium length, however there are no DQs in the standard covering tail length. So at most the juDge can fault but shouLd not dis,miss, well at least that is my take. We Canadians have been showing natural tails in the USA for some time, both in the Yorkie breed and in the Black Russian breed. I think may happen from 2007 or 2008.

Personally I like what position the CKC takes that docked or undocked is acceptable. However that might change as more public pressure is brought to bear. At least three provincial vet associations have gone out against crop n dock.

There are a few threads on here where there were some good discussions. I personally am not convinced that docking a tail when done correctly ensues harm n pain to the puppy. Certainly it is laughable when you compare this to major surgery to spay females and neuter males. Although for males the surgery is less invasive but the health benefits quite simply are not there. Females are a different case in point.

you can if you like read up on this on my spay and neuter thread ...When or if ever the last three pages or so have the more recent research.

I think Dobs don't look like Dobs anymore nor the Rottweilers and for my breed I much prefer the docked tail. THankfully my current gal does not have a very long natural tail and I don't wince every time I come in the front door as her tail wagging does not hit each wall!!!

IN essence I have not seen the science to support irreparable damage to a puppy if you dock a tail properly.

[gemy]

My boy with his docked tail is equally expressive as my gal with a natural tail. Also so much easier to keep clean in the sanitary area. You learn to read your dog over time. A tucked tail is a tucked tail, a highly carried tail the same, wagging side to side and the speed of same indicates the same things. Jmho

[yorkiemini]

Standards say docket and at a 45 degree angle. The longer tails don't usually have the 45 degree angle -- not that it would be impossible though I suppose.

I see more breeders braving letting the tail grow. Maybe there is a move to get in the face of the US standard by some. But until the judges get on board it will continue to be controversial it seems.

[gemy]

The standard actually says carried slightly higher than the back no percentage is indicated. That is to say the AKC standard. But for most dogs the tail should be carried up and he dog should show confidence int the ring, particularly terriers and all the working breeds.

[swan]

Hi Gemy, I have missed you.

You have been around enough shows, if an undocked dog starts winning people are going to lose it. Especially if that dog has a big time handler.

[swan]

I meant to write undocked tails in the AKC, where the standard has not been changed. America's political climate right now is kind of chaotic I don't think docking dog tails is an issue that would get much attention.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by swan

Hi Gemy, I have missed you.

You have been around enough shows, if an undocked dog starts winning people are going to lose it. Especially if that dog has a big time handler.

I have missed you as well. Congrats I see I think that you have two puppies. Congrats on your breeding.

We have in USA and Canada gone back n forth with this issue in both my breeds. Big time European breeders unless placing in pet homes will not dock. What can I say? We the breeders have selected over the years for type,personality, and health. Now due to politics we are forced into a situation not of our choosing.

Passions run high with the breeders, in both my breeds. And you know the old saying, get three breeders in a room and they will happily disagree on almost anyThing

[yorkiemini]

Originally Posted by gemy

The standard actually says carried slightly higher than the back no percentage is indicated. That is to say the AKC standard. But for most dogs the tail should be carried up and he dog should show confidence int the ring, particularly terriers and all the working breeds.

What they are teaching and emphasizing in judges classes is the 45 degree thing. That being said it can always depend on who is teaching that section. Everyone has prejudices of course. Would be great if the US/European issues could be somehow resolved.

[swan]

Originally Posted by yorkiemini

What they are teaching and emphasizing in judges classes is the 45 degree thing. That being said it can always depend on who is teaching that section. Everyone has prejudices of course. Would be great if the US/European issues could be somehow resolved.

This is so true, I was at a judge training at Eukanuba and the 45 degree thing did come up.

Every show I've been to this topic has come up, no one has a solution. I wish we could figure this out. I have a feeling money is going to get involved and there will be pressure to change that standard. Remember the "golden rule" "He who has the gold, makes the rules"