|
Welcome to the YorkieTalk.com Forums Community - the community for Yorkshire Terriers. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. You will be able to chat with over 35,000 YorkieTalk members, read over 2,000,000 posted discussions, and view more than 15,000 Yorkie photos in the YorkieTalk Photo Gallery after you register. We would love to have you as a member! Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please click here to contact us. |
|
| LinkBack | Thread Tools |
10-22-2014, 06:52 AM | #1 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Florida
Posts: 98
| Origins of the Breed; The Real History of the Yorkshire Terrier At the request of some other posters, I decided to start a thread to discuss the history of the breed. I would like to encourage anyone to post historical data about the origins of the breed. Some questions to consider: -What were Yorkshire Terriers bred for originally? - What breeding stock was used? -Why did they become so popular? A lot was covered in the Ideal Weight for Show Thread, this thread is a more focused continuation of a great conversation we were having on that thread. Thanks Mike 1975 for the great idea, and your contributions to our historical knowledge. |
Welcome Guest! | |
10-22-2014, 10:47 AM | #2 | |||
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: May 2012 Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 174
| 3 years ago I started to thoroughly study this wonderful breed. One of the first books that came to my hands and kept like a treasure, was "The Complete Yorkshire Terrier" written by Joan Gordon. This book inspired me to search as much as possible, gathering information about yorkies origination and original function. What surprised me most, was that despite the facts and historical data provided by Mrs Gordon, many modern authors claim that there is a great deal of mystery concerning the origin of the Yorkshire Terrier. Many claim that "the Yorkshire Terrier's original function was to hunt and kill rats and other rodents in the mines and cotton mills in county Yorkshire in northern England." Even though the yorkies temperament and capabilities have shown that he can be a great ratter, none of the sources of that time I have found, mention that this was the purpose for which it was originally bred. Today we have the privilege to read books and historical documents using the advantages of modern technology. Books of the late 19th and early 20th century are available to all of us online through university libraries. One of the first authors to put an opinion to paper was John Henry Walsh, who wrote under the alias of “Stonehenge". In his 1878 work "The dogs of the British Islands: being a series of articles on the points of their various breeds, and the treatment of the diseases to which they are subject" https://archive.org/stream/dogsofbri...arch/yorkshire wrote of the Yorkshire Terrier: Quote:
In 1881, Vero Shaw wrote the book "The Illustrated Book of the Dog". https://archive.org/stream/illustrat...arch/yorkshire There he writes about yorkshire terrier : Quote:
In 1879 Hugh Dalziel wrote "British dogs; their varieties, history, characteristics, breeding, management and exhibition" https://archive.org/stream/britishdo...arch/yorkshire Quote:
| |||
10-22-2014, 10:52 AM | #3 | |||
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: May 2012 Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 174
| Rawdon B. Lee in 1894 wrote the book "A history and description of the modern dogs of Great Britain and Ireland - The terriers" https://archive.org/stream/moderndog.../n385/mode/2up Quote:
https://archive.org/stream/americanb...arch/yorkshire There, P.H. Coombs who was an American pioneer of the breed, provides us with some answers gathering the story from the last of the generation who knew the yorkie's beginning. He is quoting various writers and their research about the origin of the breed including Shaw, Dalziel and Stonehenge. There he quotes a 1887 article for the magazine "English Stock-Keeper", written by author G.H. Wilkinson https://archive.org/stream/americanb...arch/yorkshire Quote:
He also mentions Mr. James Watson's article, published in the Century Magazine of 1886 : https://archive.org/stream/americanb...arch/yorkshire Quote:
| |||
10-22-2014, 10:53 AM | #4 | |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: May 2012 Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 174
| One year after Watson’s article in Century Magazine, Mr. Ed. Bootman, of Halifax wrote an article for the English Stock-Keeper which claimed to know not only the types of dogs used to create the Yorkie, but also their names: https://archive.org/stream/americanb...arch/yorkshire Quote:
Then she adds " the threads in the loom were set and the task of weaving ready to commence. Taking the offspring of these dogs, the early breeders began spinning their bloodlines. With interest in prize winning and competition growing in numbers, the shuttles' pace increased. The Yorkshire's complete development is so woven into the developing sport of showing dogs..." Here I want to add another great book "Dog shows and doggy people" written on 1902 by C.H. Lane. There you can read about the Fosters and of course the first dog shows. https://archive.org/stream/dogshowsd...e/106/mode/2up If you have any other information on the subject please share it with us | |
10-23-2014, 03:45 AM | #5 | ||||
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: May 2012 Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 174
| Rawdon B. Lee in his 1894 book, wrote on page 341: https://archive.org/stream/moderndog...e/340/mode/2up Quote:
Quote:
https://archive.org/stream/americanb...arch/yorkshire Quote:
According to Joan Gordon http://www.theyorkshireterrierclubof...TCAHistory.pdf Quote:
1900 : The AKC registers a total of 11 new Yorkshire Terriers 1909 : The AKC registers a total of 30 new Yorkshire Terriers 1939 : The AKC registers a total of 69 new Yorkshire Terriers 1940 : The AKC registers a total of 91 new Yorkshire Terriers 1943 : The AKC registers a total of 33 new Yorkshire Terriers (WWII) 1949 : The AKC registers a total of 173 new Yorkshire Terriers 1960 : The AKC registers more than 1000 Yorkshire Terriers 1970 : The Yorkshire Terrier is the most popular breed in Britain. In America more than 13000 are registered in one year. 1980 : The AKC registers almost 25000 new Yorkshire Terriers 2006 : The AKC registers almost 37000 new Yorkshire Terriers According to Mrs Coile, in the 60's the breed began to attract celebrity owners and be regarded as a status symbol. The masses followed and thus began to climb steadily towards the top of the popularity list. Some other links to read : The Kennel Club Stud Book (U.K.) Volume I - 1874 https://archive.org/stream/TheKennel...ge/n9/mode/2up History of the Yorkshire Terrier by Joan Gordon http://www.theyorkshireterrierclubof...TCAHistory.pdf A manual of toy dogs by Mrs. Leslie Williams, 1904, 3rd edition A manual of toy dogs; how to breed, rear, and feed them The dog in health and disease by Stonhenge, 1872 , 2nd edition https://archive.org/stream/doginheal...ge/n5/mode/2up | ||||
10-23-2014, 04:14 AM | #6 | ||
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: May 2012 Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 174
| Of course there is a lot to talk about standard and breeding. like this quote of Mr Coombs article in "The American Book of The Dog" https://archive.org/stream/americanb...e/452/mode/2up Quote:
or Mr. Wilkinson quote in the same book about colors Quote:
Anyway... There is a lot to talk about | ||
11-21-2014, 08:12 PM | #7 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Florida
Posts: 98
| Sorry I haven't posted in a while, I am working on my master's degree online and working full time so I just haven't had much time. Mike 1975 your research, writing, and incredible intellect have lead to some of the most substantive posts on Yorkie talk. I have enjoyed reading your writing immensely. I will post more soon. |
11-22-2014, 01:30 AM | #8 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: May 2012 Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 174
| Thank you Swan for your kind comments! Good luck on your master's degree, I am looking forward to discussing this very interesting subject. |
12-06-2014, 09:32 AM | #9 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Florida
Posts: 98
| Hi Mike 1975, Wow, I just went back through again and re-read everything. There is so much to talk about I don't even know where to start. First, because I am curious to learn your opinion. What is your thesis? From the reading I looked at it appears that a compelling case can be made that the Yorkshire Terrier was really developed with an interest in creating prize winning dogs. That they could be sold to the upper class of England in order to make ends meet. Its seems like these dogs offered the original breeders in Yorkshire a chance at social mobility. People were willing to pay top dollar for these dogs. It is clear that they do possess the ability to catch rats, even now, and they are certainly distant descendants of ratters. However you make some very well sourced points about how the breed was not only bred to show but actually attracted more people to show's and may have lead to the popularity of showing dogs for sport. This completely blew me away. It seems, through well cited historical data, that people immediately fell in love with the breed from the very beginning and that fascination attracted more people to Dog Shows. This quote from "The dogs of the British Isles" I found very interesting. "It would be much better to divide them by weight, and classify them as large and small Yorkshire terriers." Given the discussions between exhibitors and breeders today I found that quote to be quite illuminating. It appears we have always had size differences in the breed and some have wondered if they should be judged separately. Reading through the books it was clear to me that even at the very beginning size and weight were a big deal for breeders and exhibitors. I would love for the YTCA to read this thread. Mike 1975 I think you could write a book. A book that would be valuable to our understanding of the breed. Tremendous work Mike. I share your fascination with the breed, and I love learning anything I possibly can about Yorkies. I would love to team up with you and create a documentary film. There is enough information to cover and I think people would want to see it. |
12-07-2014, 12:34 AM | #10 |
YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: King County, WA
Posts: 3,817
| So does all of that debunk the AKC version of yorkie history or compliment it? The Yorkshire Terrier traces to the Waterside Terrier, a small longish-coated dog, bluish-gray in color, weighing between 6 and 20 pounds (most commonly 10 pounds). The Waterside Terrier was a breed formed by the crossing of the old rough-coated Black-and-Tan English Terrier (common in the Manchester area) and the Paisley and Clydesdale Terriers. It was brought to Yorkshire by weavers who migrated from Scotland to England in the mid-19th century. The Yorkshire Terrier made its first appearance at a bench show in England in 1861 as a "broken-haired Scotch Terrier". It became known as a Yorkshire Terrier in 1870 when, after the Westmoreland show, Angus Sutherland reported in The Field magazine that "they ought no longer be called Scotch Terriers, but Yorkshire Terriers for having been so improved there." The earliest record of a Yorkshire Terrier born in the United States dates to 1872. Classes for the breed have been offered at all shows since 1878. Early shows divided the classes by weight - under 5 pounds and 5 pounds and over. Size, however, soon settled down to an average of between 3 and 7 pounds, resulting in only one class being offered in later shows. While a Toy, and at various times a greatly pampered one, the Yorkshire is a spirited dog that definitely shows its terrier strain. The show dog's length of coat makes constant care necessary to protect it from damage, but the breed is glad to engage in all the roistering activities of the larger terrier breeds. Yorkshire Terrier History | American Kennel Club |
12-11-2014, 01:35 PM | #11 | |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: May 2012 Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 174
| First of all, I would like to thank you very much Swan for the kind words. Quote:
Old Crab, Kitty and Whittam's nameless bitch. Well, I must say that I still have unanswered questions. I still have many "whys" in my mind. For example, why did they choose to mix a Clydesdale or Waterside (Old Crab) with a Paisley Terrier (Kitty) for the first time? Was this pairing a common practice of that time, resembling the contemporary Back Yard Breeders' way of earning money? Was this pairing a small step to create something new? Was it an accident? And if it was an accident why did they repeat it for 6 times? According to historical data, before 1851 Kitty had 6 litters (maybe all of them by Crab) and 28 dogs (males) from these litters were used to "stock" the area with "rising sires". The fact that they repeated this mating means that they had potential buyers. The outcome of the first litter was so appealing that they wanted to repeat it. In my opinion, these dogs were far from being the working man's choice because they already had the traditional hunting terrier breeds. A mongrel who had not proved his skills genetically, was useless to them and they wouldn't pay for it. So they (the breeders) had to find another audience to sell their puppies. Who was that audience? Two different markets had already formed. The timing was perfect! First the wealthy ladies in want of a small fancy dog and second the "gamblers" of the time who participated in rat-baiting contests, held in public houses. The emerging dog shows gave them the opportunity to sell their new fancy creation like hot cookies! And then wealthy Victorians took matters into their own hands. They acquired the best specimens of the breed and turned the breed into something that its founders never dreamed of. A masterpiece of the dog show world, that caught everyone's attention. This is a possible explanation of how the breed acquired the reputation of both an exceptional show dog and at the same time a vigorous ratter. In both cases you would be able to find potential buyers! For shows and for ratting. All these compliment the AKC yorkie History | |
12-11-2014, 02:49 PM | #12 |
YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: King County, WA
Posts: 3,817
| Given the dates, is it possible your question of "why" might have been related to Darwin and the developing theories of others at the time? Just a thought. Even though selective breeding has taken place for thousands of years, there seemed to be a lot of interest in it, how it works, in the 1800s. Human Influence on Natural Selection | Newton's Apple.org.uk |
12-12-2014, 10:46 AM | #13 | |||
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: May 2012 Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 174
| Mark, I don't know... Considering the profile of both Kitty and Crab's owners, I think that they were probably unaware of Darwin's theory and unfamiliar to any scientific approach to this subject. Old Crab's owner was a carpenter and kept a public house in Manchester and Kitty's last owner (Mr. J. Kershaw) kept a public house in Halifax named "Bishop Blaise". So they were both publicans, of questionable educational background, whose main concern seemed to be to make a quick profit, as was the case with most publicans at the time. Public houses were pubs that also had some other events for entertainment purposes including rat baiting, bull baiting and other blood sports of the time and also... dog "exhibitions". Unorganized of course, but this is how it all started... According to many sources, the first organized dog Show took place at Newcastle upon Tyne in 1859. History of the Kennel Club ? The Kennel Club Prior that time the exhibiting of dogs took place at local public houses. Records of such dog exhibitions go back to 1844. An example was the famous "BLUE ANCHOR", kept by Jemmy Shaw. Artillery Arms | Londonist In Joan Gordon's book "The New Complete Yorkshire Terrier" there is an advertisement of a 1849 show : Quote:
The photo is from the London Museum and it reads : Quote:
An interesting approach about Yorkshire breeders and what they desired to achieve, is this of Robert Leighton in his book "The complete book of the Dog" written in 1922. https://archive.org/stream/completeb...e/310/mode/2up Quote:
Last edited by Mike1975; 12-12-2014 at 10:49 AM. | |||
12-12-2014, 02:14 PM | #14 | |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: May 2012 Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 174
| Searching for more information about yorkies and rat-baiting I came across this interesting quote from a book written in 1948 "THE BOOK OF THE DOG", Edited by Brian Vesey-Fitzgerald Staffordshire Bull Terrier - Stoutheart - RATS... "Staffords & baiting sports, by Phil Drabble" Quote:
| |
12-13-2014, 09:12 PM | #15 |
YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: King County, WA
Posts: 3,817
| Oh! That was a fun read! Killing rats en masse! 9 seconds per rat! Holy Crap! Thanks! |
Bookmarks |
|
|
Thread Tools | |
| |
|
|
SHOP NOW: Amazon :: eBay :: Buy.com :: Newegg :: PetStore :: Petco :: PetSmart