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Old 05-06-2010, 06:19 PM   #1
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Default I've always wanted to ask...

Hello! This is my first thread that I'm starting:

I always wanted to know what makes a good show dog in terms of temperment and personality. I would assume show breeders observe their puppies early on, so how soon do you know or suspect they have that 'IT' factor, and what do you look for?

Educate me! Thanks!
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Old 05-06-2010, 07:13 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by YorkieTherapy View Post
Hello! This is my first thread that I'm starting:

I always wanted to know what makes a good show dog in terms of temperment and personality. I would assume show breeders observe their puppies early on, so how soon do you know or suspect they have that 'IT' factor, and what do you look for?

Educate me! Thanks!
I'd like to know this too.
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Old 05-07-2010, 04:48 AM   #3
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I look for a pup that likes people, is naturally a show off and one that is comfortable in new situations.
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Old 05-07-2010, 04:22 PM   #4
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Thank you for posting Tam!

It's interesting. Those are some of the same attributes they look for in a therapy dog, only the showing off part is required of the handler.
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Old 05-07-2010, 06:23 PM   #5
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Thank you for posting Tam!

It's interesting. Those are some of the same attributes they look for in a therapy dog, only the showing off part is required of the handler.
I look for a puppy that's not afraid of the devil. One that shows inquisitiveness and allertness....gives lots of expression with their ears.....

I have a little girl that I'm watching right now.....whenever I'm working with her she stands perfectly still, but the lil toot, continously growls under her breath.....Love it. I also, look at food motivation.....a big must, you can train a food motivated dog easier than one that is not.
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Old 05-08-2010, 03:20 AM   #6
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Default True about the "IT" factor---

I've been acquiring nice dogs for a while and having fun combining them various ways and observing what comes out. One day last year we noticed one particular puppy at 5 weeks old had a way of moving about that was different from the others and that I now understand as the "IT" factor. She already had that beautiful little square shape and head up high, and moved around with a special air of confidence and superiority. Barely a year old, she now has several points and took Best of Breed at a show last weekend.
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Old 05-08-2010, 07:03 AM   #7
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Studying dog behavior is my thing, I read and learn everything I can get my hands on, so my comments here are strictly my opinion. In a wolf pack or wild dog pack, only a very select number of pups would be born that would be destined to be the "alpha" dog or "alpha" bitch. These would be the pups that just ooze confidence, are very calm under any circumstance, and the pup that is the boss in a litter without being bossy about it. In my mind this is the perfect show pup.
My little Jazz was a great little show dog, she is absolutely fearless, confident with all people and confident with any dog. She is the "alpha" in my house. If she wants something from one of the others, she just has to look at them, with that certain look and what ever she wants they just give it up to her. My other dogs just respect her position, she is never bossy with them. Right from the time she was a small pup, she used to do things like put all the toys in the toy box and then look at the others, like these are all my toys, if you want one, you have to ask me. Although I am a strong believer in the power of socialization, I do think that Jazz was just born that way. Jazz now has her own babies, and I am curious to know whether or not she will pass this attitude on to her children. I am looking forward to finding out whether her children will be treated with the respect that comes from being lucky enough to be born as the children of the "alpha". Of course, all this is just my opinion, as I know that a lot of people no longer believe in all this about dog social structure but I love to learn about every author's opinions and form my own based on my observations of my little "pack".
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Old 05-08-2010, 07:35 AM   #8
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Studying dog behavior is my thing, I read and learn everything I can get my hands on, so my comments here are strictly my opinion. In a wolf pack or wild dog pack, only a very select number of pups would be born that would be destined to be the "alpha" dog or "alpha" bitch. These would be the pups that just ooze confidence, are very calm under any circumstance, and the pup that is the boss in a litter without being bossy about it. In my mind this is the perfect show pup.
My little Jazz was a great little show dog, she is absolutely fearless, confident with all people and confident with any dog. She is the "alpha" in my house. If she wants something from one of the others, she just has to look at them, with that certain look and what ever she wants they just give it up to her. My other dogs just respect her position, she is never bossy with them. Right from the time she was a small pup, she used to do things like put all the toys in the toy box and then look at the others, like these are all my toys, if you want one, you have to ask me. Although I am a strong believer in the power of socialization, I do think that Jazz was just born that way. Jazz now has her own babies, and I am curious to know whether or not she will pass this attitude on to her children. I am looking forward to finding out whether her children will be treated with the respect that comes from being lucky enough to be born as the children of the "alpha". Of course, all this is just my opinion, as I know that a lot of people no longer believe in all this about dog social structure but I love to learn about every author's opinions and form my own based on my observations of my little "pack".
I've been told by those that mentor me that a show dog is born with all the qualities, however, those qualities need to be nurtured.

I have a Champion boy that I never trained for the ring, I brought him out when he was 2, on a whim. The boy knew exactly what to do and from his first day in the ring he pointed. He was a joy to show, knew exactly what was expected of him. Walked in the ring like he owned it.
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Old 05-08-2010, 10:12 AM   #9
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Thanks everyone for the input!

When I get the chance, I just can't wait to log on to read what you have all written, because I find this absolutely fascinating!
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Old 05-08-2010, 11:32 AM   #10
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It's really interesting when you show two very different breeds of dogs. Razzle our Yorkie is being shown (because our breeder wants him to be and we agreed to that) he is also being trained as an agility dog - cause that is what I wanted ..llol So it is interesting for me to learn about this toy breed.

For our working breed - Black Russian Terrier. Things are a bit different and also depends on if as a breeder which side of the scale you are breeding for/to. Some breeders are as avid at working their dog - obtaining working titles, and are less avid for conformation titles. They will get one/maybe two championships - then spend most of their time in competing in the performance events. As a rough rule of thumb this type of breeder is less likely to special their dog, instead they will go for top obedience dog, or top draft dog, or work their dog in Schutzhund etc.

Some of the attritubes of working and show are the same: as young pups 6-7 wks old they are temperament tested, this will give the breeder a better understanding of the character/nature of the dog. So for a working breed, you want to see, medium to high drive, confidence, inquisitiveness, and steadiness stableness. this breed should not be submissive at all. Sound structure is a must, for the dog must be able to `do`` what it was bred to do. After this initial testing at 6-7 wks old, the young dog over one year old - I think some organizations ask for 15months + are then formally tested and if pass earn the TT title. This is what a lot of working breed folks look for. This is a very important working test. Looks at stableness of the dog, innate ability to defend, confidence, socialability of dog. and Basic obedience commands. AS the owner - breeder you then will have at least a second opinion on where to train with your working dog.

Back to the conformation aspect: We look at the movement, does the pup (for a pup) have good movement - a pup that moves very poorly is likely to grow up to a dog that moves poorly. Good moving pup baring accident or injury is more likely to be good moving adult.
Topline: level and slightly ascending Angulation : Rear and Front : the balance with good angulation Head (very important in our breed) We measure ankles to get a rough idea of good bone (ie medium boned density). Toeing in or out Coat is important but adult coat is hard to predict in a puppy (best indicator is parents coat). Chest depth, rib spring is looked at as well.
Of course we have DQ;d in this breed and obviously if a pup has one of those (for eg: any color other than black) by definition can not be a conformation show dog. Some Dq`d s you just have to watch the pup mature to see .. for eg: any bite other than scissor, missing adult teeth, etc.

Now there is another thread in Other discussions or some such that talks about some breed clubs don`t want their breed to be recognzied by AKC. The nub of the argument is --- given the setup the requirements for a CH that doesn`t provide and even insist on working titles, then the breed willl be ruined as the breeders will breed to only `beauty standards`. There is some substance for that argument.

Hope you enjoyed the read about another breed ...

Have a great day all
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Old 06-28-2010, 09:27 PM   #11
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It's really interesting when you show two very different breeds of dogs. Razzle our Yorkie is being shown (because our breeder wants him to be and we agreed to that) he is also being trained as an agility dog - cause that is what I wanted ..llol So it is interesting for me to learn about this toy breed.

For our working breed - Black Russian Terrier. Things are a bit different and also depends on if as a breeder which side of the scale you are breeding for/to. Some breeders are as avid at working their dog - obtaining working titles, and are less avid for conformation titles. They will get one/maybe two championships - then spend most of their time in competing in the performance events. As a rough rule of thumb this type of breeder is less likely to special their dog, instead they will go for top obedience dog, or top draft dog, or work their dog in Schutzhund etc.

Some of the attritubes of working and show are the same: as young pups 6-7 wks old they are temperament tested, this will give the breeder a better understanding of the character/nature of the dog. So for a working breed, you want to see, medium to high drive, confidence, inquisitiveness, and steadiness stableness. this breed should not be submissive at all. Sound structure is a must, for the dog must be able to `do`` what it was bred to do. After this initial testing at 6-7 wks old, the young dog over one year old - I think some organizations ask for 15months + are then formally tested and if pass earn the TT title. This is what a lot of working breed folks look for. This is a very important working test. Looks at stableness of the dog, innate ability to defend, confidence, socialability of dog. and Basic obedience commands. AS the owner - breeder you then will have at least a second opinion on where to train with your working dog.

Back to the conformation aspect: We look at the movement, does the pup (for a pup) have good movement - a pup that moves very poorly is likely to grow up to a dog that moves poorly. Good moving pup baring accident or injury is more likely to be good moving adult.
Topline: level and slightly ascending Angulation : Rear and Front : the balance with good angulation Head (very important in our breed) We measure ankles to get a rough idea of good bone (ie medium boned density). Toeing in or out Coat is important but adult coat is hard to predict in a puppy (best indicator is parents coat). Chest depth, rib spring is looked at as well.
Of course we have DQ;d in this breed and obviously if a pup has one of those (for eg: any color other than black) by definition can not be a conformation show dog. Some Dq`d s you just have to watch the pup mature to see .. for eg: any bite other than scissor, missing adult teeth, etc.

Now there is another thread in Other discussions or some such that talks about some breed clubs don`t want their breed to be recognzied by AKC. The nub of the argument is --- given the setup the requirements for a CH that doesn`t provide and even insist on working titles, then the breed willl be ruined as the breeders will breed to only `beauty standards`. There is some substance for that argument.

Hope you enjoyed the read about another breed ...

Have a great day all
Wow thank you, I hope you don't mind me copy/paste this for reference!
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Old 06-29-2010, 05:02 AM   #12
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I agree that they are born with that "it" personality. My Gi finished in just 3 weekends of showing with an extra major. She had that "it" personlaity. She could have probably gone in the ring by herself and would have known exactly what to do and win. She was great a self stacking and would even look at the judge knowning she was the best in the ring. Everyone loved her!

I have boy now, that I have been sitting on waiting for him to mature and grow his coat out and he has that "it" personlaity. He rules the house!

We have one girl, too small to show, is working on her Therapy cert. and she is amazing. She also has that "it" personality and so intelligent. She has her first cert. in obedience and now working on her 2nd.

Remember that they are terrier's and should have that terrier personality!

Last edited by topknot; 06-29-2010 at 05:06 AM.
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Old 06-29-2010, 05:08 AM   #13
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I agree that they are born with that "it" personality. My Gi finished in just 3 weekends of showing with an extra major. She had that "it" personlaity. She could have probably gone in the ring by herself and would have known exactly what to do and win. She was great a self stacking and would even look at the judge knowning she was the best in the ring. Everyone loved her!

I have boy now, that I have been sitting on waiting for him to mature and grow his coat out and he has that "it" personlaity. He rules the house!

Remember that they are terrier's and should have that terrier personality!
Tina,

Most of us know what the IT factor is in a dog. We've educated and developed an eye for the overall quality of the dog. We can have a beautiful representation of a dog; but, if it doesn't have the overall attitude...you have a dog that has to be dragged around the ring, a dog that looks like you've slapped it on the side of the head and looks stunned...
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Old 06-29-2010, 05:43 AM   #14
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Tina,

Most of us know what the IT factor is in a dog. We've educated and developed an eye for the overall quality of the dog. We can have a beautiful representation of a dog; but, if it doesn't have the overall attitude...you have a dog that has to be dragged around the ring, a dog that looks like you've slapped it on the side of the head and looks stunned...
Yep, once you have had one with that "it" attitude you know what it looks like.
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