[News] Puppymills Getting National Media Attention

[alisonJ]

Originally Posted by Akitakt

I am new to Yorkie Talk. But when I read this post I had to respond. First of all, just because PETA is involved in getting something done, doesn't make it bad. Like them or not, PETA is VERY effective at getting things accomplished for animals. They get attention and get things done. You can't argue with that. You may not like all their tactics but you've obviously noticed them. And that's what they want... for people to stop and pay attention to animal abuse. When PETA steps in, people get nervous and they should be. Because PETA has saved a lot of animals from needless suffering. And animal abusers hate PETA. If it takes PETA getting involved to get congress to start paying attention to puppy mills and notice Lancaster then welcome PETA. Be glad they are helping. Write them a thank note.

In fact, before you say PETA is "off the wall" visit their website http://www.peta.org and read about some of their campaigns. I bet you will come to appreciate what they are doing for animals all over the world. Why do you think so many celebrities, like Bill Maher, Charlize Theron and Martha Stewart have done public service announcements for them, for free. Because they are very effective at helping animals.

Akitakt, I agree with your assessment of PETA. On another thread I happened to just mention PETA (it was not an endorsement of any kind but simply a statement of something they had recently done), and the reaction on this board was unbelievably negative!!! Just about every organization has made mistakesin the past....Remember the United Way scandal? Did that make United Way an evil organization? I don't think so. Members of this board would be well served to check out PETA's website and see what they stand for and how they aim to achieve those goals. Some of their methods were unconventional, but civil disobedience DOES WORK and as you said, it gets the attention they want and NEED to achieve the desired result.

[*Pink~Daisy*]

Originally Posted by alisonJ

Akitakt, I agree with your assessment of PETA. On another thread I happened to just mention PETA (it was not an endorsement of any kind but simply a statement of something they had recently done), and the reaction on this board was unbelievably negative!!! Just about every organization has made mistakesin the past....Remember the United Way scandal? Did that make United Way an evil organization? I don't think so. Members of this board would be well served to check out PETA's website and see what they stand for and how they aim to achieve those goals. Some of their methods were unconventional, but civil disobedience DOES WORK and as you said, it gets the attention they want and NEED to achieve the desired result.

I agree, I've been a member of PETA for about 5 years now...because im an Animal Lover, and Animal activist because All our creatures big and small, fat and skinny don't have a voice, so we have to speak up for them. I think EVERYONE should few some of the videos they have on PETA.org, and really see whats happen to creatures all over the world. Try and take a look at the Chinese Fur trade! It will make you sick to your stomach what they do to animals. Dogs, cats, racoons, monkeys..etc. Its horrible, People really need to stop and look at whats really going on, on this planet of ours.

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by *Pink~Daisy*

I agree, I've been a member of PETA for about 5 years now...because im an Animal Lover, and Animal activist because All our creatures big and small, fat and skinny don't have a voice, so we have to speak up for them. I think EVERYONE should few some of the videos they have on PETA.org, and really see whats happen to creatures all over the world. Try and take a look at the Chinese Fur trade! It will make you sick to your stomach what they do to animals. Dogs, cats, racoons, monkeys..etc. Its horrible, People really need to stop and look at whats really going on, on this planet of ours.

I'm also a Member of PETA fpr 4 years now....and while I find them extreme... I DO agree they've done alot of good in some instances and EVERYONE who has questions on Mistreatment of animals DOES need to visit their site - I limit my time on it because it's so sickening but someone needs to speak for those who can't.

We ALL need to do our part in helping educate people on the puppy mills in this country - it doesn't take long to email your newstations - papers and try to take an active roll - PICTURE your own yorkies in a Puppy Mill. ...in a TINY CAGE ...COLD & HUNGRY and SAD.....)

I know we can't save the world but if we don't try - then they will continue to live like this.

I can't accept the hell these poor dogs live in...

[Akitakt]

OMG, 3 people in a row that actually had nice things to say about PETA! I feel like I'm in a parallel universe here. I will not mention the name of the forum I was on, but it was not this one where I brought up PETA. But I made the terrible assumption that the people on it, because they almost certainly all care about dogs, would not be wildly opposed to PETA. You'd think I insulted their mother bringing up PETA. All I said was "the HSUS, PETA, Dogs Deserve Betters, Hearts United for Animals, and United Animal Nations helped rescue animals in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina" and they all went off the deep end.

I realize that there are people who disagree with things this organization does. In fact, I disagree with throwing paint on people just because they're wearing fur. My reasoning is that it does not get acrossed the point that fur is cruel. All it does is piss people off.

But like I said on the other forum, you do not have to agree with everything a group does to support it. And then several people said, "WELL, if I don't support everything a group does than I won't support it at all!" To that I say, are you a democrat or a republican? Do you support EVERYTHING your party does and every politician in it? Allrighty then.

So I am glad to see that there are a few individuals on yorkietalk that appreciate what PETA does because, in my humble opinion, they have helped and save thousands, maybe millions of animals. Their sometimes extreme campaigns bring attention to cruelty to animals and that's what's important.

To those of you reading who are wondering about the case going on right now with the two employees being charged for dumping the dead animals in a dumpster I do not yet have a clear answer for that except to say that they should probably both have been fired. (only one was) But I don't know the whole story so I can't comment yet.

[Akitakt]

Originally Posted by *Pink~Daisy*

I agree, I've been a member of PETA for about 5 years now...because im an Animal Lover, and Animal activist because All our creatures big and small, fat and skinny don't have a voice, so we have to speak up for them. I think EVERYONE should few some of the videos they have on PETA.org, and really see whats happen to creatures all over the world. Try and take a look at the Chinese Fur trade! It will make you sick to your stomach what they do to animals. Dogs, cats, racoons, monkeys..etc. Its horrible, People really need to stop and look at whats really going on, on this planet of ours.

PETA recently showed video footage of the fur farm people skinning dogs and cats alive (in China) and laughing and hitting them to Paul & Heather Mills McCartney. I read the article. It said they were brought to tears and Sir McCartney said he will not tour in China. Maybe this is the attention that they need to stop what they're doing. But they probably won't. Here's the article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/4476664.stm

[Akitakt]

Originally Posted by txshopper73

I know that PETA sorta has a bad rep but for once, join hands with the "enemy". They are in this to shut down puppymills. Who can argue with that?

I agree. I wouldn't call them the 'enemy' but you see what you're saying... that many dog-lovers do. I don't understand why, except that maybe it is their extreme tactics that put people off. But as I've said before, it gets the attention where it needs to be.

I am really glad to see that people (at least on this thread) are not so hostile as they are on other threads. I appreciate yorkietalk yakkers trying to be respectful of other people's opinions, even if they don't agree with them.

P.S. It was from PETA that I first learned about puppymills and what they are. And I wouldn't have known about circuses, the fur trade, and animal experimentation if it weren't for them. So I am grateful that they exist.

[MagikAshes]

I don't think it is wise or effective to place rather or not your a puppy mill based on how many dogs you sell a year. I show, breed and train shelties, belgian malinois and german shorthaired pointers and I am in no way shape or form a puppy mill. I have had 1 litter total of Beligan malinois in 4 years (not per year, 1 litter total), and as for the GSP's I've also only had one litter and only have two shorthairs total in my house (mother and daughter, one is an International and AKC CH. and the other is a pup).

Anyway my problem with baseing rather or not your a puppy mill based on how many dogs you sell a year is this: IT DEPENDS ON WHAT BREED YOU BRED! Since the average Malinois or GSP litter is at least 7 pups per litter, have two litters and your a puppy mill??? I don't think how many you sell a year or even in cases how many breeds you have make you a puppy mill (of course 12 breeds- isn't what I'm talking about).

What makes someone a puppy mill and not a breeder are the following: not doing genetic testing on their dogs, not breeding to improve the breed, not socilizing puppies, not keeping shots, wormings, and other health related stuff up to date, not caring who buys your puppies as long as you sell them, selling puppies to pet shops and brokers, breeding mixed designer breeds (face it they are mixes!), not supporting rescue organizations, not caring what kind of conditions the dogs are kept in, not keeping up teeth, grooming or making sure the dogs and fed the right amount, and anyone who breeds dogs that they know for a fact have genetic, health or temperment problems is deffintally a puppy mill! Basically if you don't care about the welfare of the dogs, and they are not family members and you are not working to improve the breed and breeding anyway then you are a puppy mill.

Ashley

[Bloomingtails]

I agree with what you have used as the criteria to define puppymills. Unfortunately, they look at the dog breeding business as $$$$ with no regard to humane treatment. With the toy breeds, litters are typically smaller and little if any care is given. I have worked with two rescue groups and have seen the product of these living conditions first hand. I have seen rescues so traumatized that they will never fully overcome their fear. I have watched two of them die at an early age due to lack of basic vet care from an early age.

After getting my first yorkie three years ago, I entertained breeding, but when I did the research, I realized I did not know enough about the genetics, etc and decided to rescue instead.

Three years ago I did not know what a puppymill was, groups like this help educate the public, which in my opinion, is the only way puppymills are going to be stopped.

Originally Posted by MagikAshes

What makes someone a puppy mill and not a breeder are the following: not doing genetic testing on their dogs, not breeding to improve the breed, not socilizing puppies, not keeping shots, wormings, and other health related stuff up to date, not caring who buys your puppies as long as you sell them, selling puppies to pet shops and brokers, breeding mixed designer breeds (face it they are mixes!), not supporting rescue organizations, not caring what kind of conditions the dogs are kept in, not keeping up teeth, grooming or making sure the dogs and fed the right amount, and anyone who breeds dogs that they know for a fact have genetic, health or temperment problems is deffintally a puppy mill! Basically if you don't care about the welfare of the dogs, and they are not family members and you are not working to improve the breed and breeding anyway then you are a puppy mill.

Ashley

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by MagikAshes

I don't think it is wise or effective to place rather or not your a puppy mill based on how many dogs you sell a year. I show, breed and train shelties, belgian malinois and german shorthaired pointers and I am in no way shape or form a puppy mill. I have had 1 litter total of Beligan malinois in 4 years (not per year, 1 litter total), and as for the GSP's I've also only had one litter and only have two shorthairs total in my house (mother and daughter, one is an International and AKC CH. and the other is a pup).

Anyway my problem with baseing rather or not your a puppy mill based on how many dogs you sell a year is this: IT DEPENDS ON WHAT BREED YOU BRED! Since the average Malinois or GSP litter is at least 7 pups per litter, have two litters and your a puppy mill??? I don't think how many you sell a year or even in cases how many breeds you have make you a puppy mill (of course 12 breeds- isn't what I'm talking about).

What makes someone a puppy mill and not a breeder are the following: not doing genetic testing on their dogs, not breeding to improve the breed, not socilizing puppies, not keeping shots, wormings, and other health related stuff up to date, not caring who buys your puppies as long as you sell them, selling puppies to pet shops and brokers, breeding mixed designer breeds (face it they are mixes!), not supporting rescue organizations, not caring what kind of conditions the dogs are kept in, not keeping up teeth, grooming or making sure the dogs and fed the right amount, and anyone who breeds dogs that they know for a fact have genetic, health or temperment problems is deffintally a puppy mill! Basically if you don't care about the welfare of the dogs, and they are not family members and you are not working to improve the breed and breeding anyway then you are a puppy mill.

Ashley

Let's not forget the ignorant backyard breeder who thinks you can put 2 dogs together with no thought of genetics, cutting corners wherever they can, feeding poor quality food, letting the puppies go at a young age and many other of the same things a puppy mill does but just on a smaller scale IMHO.

[Akitakt]

Originally Posted by MagikAshes

I don't think it is wise or effective to place rather or not your a puppy mill based on how many dogs you sell a year. I show, breed and train shelties, belgian malinois and german shorthaired pointers and I am in no way shape or form a puppy mill...

Anyway my problem with baseing rather or not your a puppy mill based on how many dogs you sell a year is this: IT DEPENDS ON WHAT BREED YOU BRED! ...

What makes someone a puppy mill and not a breeder are the following: not doing genetic testing on their dogs, not breeding to improve the breed, not socilizing puppies, not keeping shots, wormings, and other health related stuff up to date, not caring who buys your puppies as long as you sell them, selling puppies to pet shops and brokers, breeding mixed designer breeds (face it they are mixes!), not supporting rescue organizations, not caring what kind of conditions the dogs are kept in, not keeping up teeth, grooming or making sure the dogs and fed the right amount, and anyone who breeds dogs that they know for a fact have genetic, health or temperment problems is deffintally a puppy mill! Basically if you don't care about the welfare of the dogs, and they are not family members and you are not working to improve the breed and breeding anyway then you are a puppy mill.

I agree with your point about the criteria of what a puppy mill is. Unfortanetely many of these criterion are either difficult to prove or vary depending on what your defenition of "socializing" or "improve" are. A puppy mill could say "sure I'm improving the breeder" or "yes, the puppies are socializing with each other". The trouble is that there are only so many USDA inspectors and thousands of puppy mills. Who knows what the number of greedy, irresponsible backyard breeders are. They're unregulated. Which is why PAWS was introduced, to try to help deal with this problem.

It is a sticky situation, but I agree that there needs to be improvements made in the wording, definitions, etc. Hopefully these changes will be made for the benefit of the animals, not the puppy mills.

I would like to emphasize one point in response to "What makes someone a puppy mill and not a breeder are the following", a puppy mill is a breeder. I think what you meant to say was "what makes someone a puppy mill and not a responsible breeder are the following".

Because a puppy mill can have many definitions. My defenition is this: a commercial breeder who breeds irresponsibly. Definition of irresponsible: treating their puppies inhumanely without attention to health, genetics, socialization, or the basic shelter, food or water.

It is also my opinion that an irresponsible breeder is anyone who does not screen potential homes, require a contract and require the puppy to be brought back to the breeder during the lifetime of the puppy if there is any reason the person/family cannot keep the dog or is not taking good care of the dog.

I.E. If a puppy you bred is being neglected or abused and you cannot take the dog back, or find a more suitable home for said dog, you shouldn't be breeding. Period.

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by Akitakt

It is also my opinion that an irresponsible breeder is anyone who does not screen potential homes, require a contract and require the puppy to be brought back to the breeder during the lifetime of the puppy if there is any reason the person/family cannot keep the dog or is not taking good care of the dog.

I.E. If a puppy you bred is being neglected or abused and you cannot take the dog back, or find a more suitable home for said dog, you shouldn't be breeding. Period.