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Old 04-17-2006, 01:08 PM   #1
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Default raw diet?

Does anyone have their babies on the raw diet NW Naturals? Or does anyone known anything about raw diets in general? I met a groomer the other day that said one of her dogs was always getting infections, had allergies, and a bunch of other problems and once on this diet, she never had problems again! This dog was not a yorkie. Any info would be helpful and appreciated!

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Old 04-17-2006, 01:21 PM   #2
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I'm sure that "raw diets" are just fine. I don't feed my pets a raw diet, but a lot of people do - and they have playful, happy, healthy pets.

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Old 04-17-2006, 02:56 PM   #3
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Default raw

rigo gets what I call a modified barf diet along with my hounds. I say modified because I feed some raw, some kibble and then also cook homeade food. They all get a dose of healthy powder suppliment daily too. I started feeding raw because one of my hounds has a serious corn allergy. I am much more selective in what raw items rigo gets. The raw chicken on the bone my hounds crunch down , just wont do for the little fella. He gets the choice pieces of meat along with lots of fruits and cooked vegies, rice , oatmeal and eggs. The thing I have noticed the most is that his teeth are getting whiter from chewing on the raw bones. He is nine and the vet says he does not need his teeth cleaned yet. I think that is pretty remarkable since the breed is known for bad teeth.
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Old 04-17-2006, 02:59 PM   #4
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Wow! That is great about your dog's teeth. We can only hope for that with the yorkies. Thanks for the info. It was helpful and appreciated. I will look into this raw diet further.

Tessa
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Old 04-17-2006, 03:17 PM   #5
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Default Raw vs. Kibble

I've always considered raw or barf diets for my fur kids. Many people that use this feeding method seems to be pleased with the results. I know of a few that have had to do this to eradicate some health issues as well. So far, I've heard nothing but great things about feeding raw from those who are experienced with it.

On another board, I started a thread called Kibble vs. Raw. I posed many questions because my main concern has always been intestinal parasites.

Here's what I've found when looking into it (my questions are followed by answers and/or links where to find the answers:


Me:

Hookworms:
Taenia (certain tapeworm): Acquired from eating infected rodents, rabbits, and sheep.
Diphyllobotriunm (certain type of tapeworm): Found encysted in the organs of fish
Echinoccus graulosus (certain type of tapeworm): Usually acquired from eating uncooked meats in both humans and dogs.
Strongyloides (certain type of threadworms)
Trichinosis: Acquired from eating uncooked meals.
Capillaria Aerophia (certain type of lungworm): Acquired through eating uncooked pork the contain the larvae of trichina spiralis.

Q:So my question is why would someone prefer to feed a raw diet if their dogs would be at risk of so many different ailments?

Q: Can anyone recommend any dehydrated diet food companies?

Q: Some people recommend not feeding fruits, veggies, and or grains to dogs. They suggest that if a dog is on a raw diet and getting a full variety of different meats than that's fine enough. How true is this?

Answer:
Here's what I've found so far (taken from: http://www.tiarapoodles.com/FAQs_raw.htm

Question: Should I be concerned about bacteria and parasites?
Raw meat may indeed contain bacteria and parasites. However, a dog's gastro-intestinal system is constructed and functions much differently from that of a human, so generally, a dog can handle normal numbers of both bacteria and parasites.
1. A dog's stomach acids are more powerful than human stomach acids; thus food is digested much more rapidly.
2. Most digestion takes place in the stomach.
3. A dog's intestinal tract is much shorter than man's is, and digested food passes through more quickly, providing less opportunity for harmful bacteria and parasites to become established. As an added precaution, some members treat their raw meat with GSE or food grade H2O2 to eliminate surface bacteria such as salmonella or e. coli. Julie Borst, of Tiara Poodles, notes the use of apple cider vinegar to assist the gastro-intestinal system in dealing with the bacteria and parasite load associated with feeding raw meat. It is also a great benefit to your pet to locate a source of organically raised and processed meat. Devoid of antibiotics and steroids these meats are also of benefit as they are hand processed. This lessens the amount of salmonella due to ruptured intestines during processing at the packaging plant.

Check this site out: http://rawfed.com/myths/parasites.html

Also, many helpful links & other info here: http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/animals.htm

I'll keep searching, but these are great starting points (IMO anyway).
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Old 04-17-2006, 03:19 PM   #6
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Default Raw vs. Kibble continued...

Me:
I have heard a lot about raw diets for dogs and while I have always been curious to learn more I never actually persuded it before now.

I will provide a very informative link on and about BARF diets for dogs. However, dispite my reasearch, I still remain with several questions that I cant seem to find the answer to.

I hear that raw diets are more beneficial than kibble. They keep doggy odours down, cleans teeth, it's less expensive, results in healthier dogs, less vet visits, etc.

I have also heard that no cooked foods are best for any dog, doesn't matter if it's boiled or baked (kibble). I was advised that even the most expensive highest quality kibbles were filled with grains or just plain junk. I was also told that no dog should be constantly feed fruits, veggies, and grains as many kibble brand foods use to advertise there kibble with. I was told that these kinds of advertisments usually work because we as the buyers, customers, and pet owners are thinking "if it's best for me than it has to be good for the animals".

I really would like to know if these things are true or not?

Ok, so here are the other more common questions:

Q: If bones should never be given to a dog than why is it ok to feed bones in a raw diet?

A: Cooked bones can be a serious danger to a dog but raw bones are soft enough to be chewed and digested easily and safely. There is always a risk when it comes to anything going into your dogs mouth.

Q: I once read that many different parasites can be transmitted through infected animals. How can I be sure that my dog will not become infected when being feed a raw, uncooked diet?

Q: Raw meats stinks, will my dog's breath stink?

Q: I have been told that my dog will need more than just protein to thrive and live a healthy balanced life. Why is it that I am now being told that raw feed it all that a dog really needs? I mean it does make sence if you looked back to their original history.

Q:Why is it that some dog food companies sale raw feed but I am told that it is still best to purchase raw feed from my local butcher?

Q: How close does brands like Innova Evo, Nature's Variety's, Cloud's Star, and then Wellness come to raw diets?

Q: I wont agree with giving my toy dog to high of protein levels so how will I know exacly how much should be feed?

Q: I have lizards that love to eat mice and I barely get to the store to provide them. This is just not very convenient for me. I need a food that I can buy and will be accessible in my home for at least a whole month, would you still recommend a raw diet to me?

Q: Should you still add food supplements such as Missing Link when feeding a raw diet?

Q: What is a holistic diet?

Q: What is the difference from raw diets, dehydrated diets, and holistic diets?

Here's those links: http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html
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Old 04-17-2006, 03:20 PM   #7
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Default Raw vs. Kibble continued...

Answers:
Q: I once read that many different parasites can be transmitted through infected animals. How can I be sure that my dog will not become infected when being feed a raw, uncooked diet?

[b]It's my understanding that many of the bacteria/parasites to which you are referring are already present in dogs and, therefore, they are resistant to salmonella, ecoli, etc. That's not to say you would want to feed your dog 3 day old raw chicken, if you wouldn't eat it then it shouldn't be given to your dog

Q: Raw meats stinks, will my dog's breath stink?

No more than it does now, especially if you are giving raw meaty bones (RMB). I can say that in the last week with Ricky eating the raw NV, his breath has ctually been better than when just eating the kibble

Q: I have been told that my dog will need more than just protein to thrive and live a healthy balanced life. Why is it that I am now being told that raw feed it all that a dog really needs? I mean it does make sence if you looked back to their original history.

Raw/barf diets do not consist of meat alone. If you read, for instance, the ingredients in the Nature's Variety or Oma's Pride frozen raw diets, they already have the various organ meats, RMBs, veggies, fruits & herbs, ground into the meat and, therefore, they are considered a complete diet. There are also many that merely offer the frozen raw protien sources (Oma's Pride, Healthy Kitchen) and you add the RMBs, veggies, vitamins, etc. to make it a complete diet.

Q:Why is it that some dog food companies sale raw feed but I am told that it is still best to purchase raw feed from my local butcher? To me, the most logical answer to this question is because then YOU know exactly the cuts of meats that are being used, how they are handled & the quality of all the products your dog is ingesting.

Q: How close does brands like Innova Evo, Nature's Variety's, Cloud's Star, and then Wellness come to raw diets?
They don't, anytime you cook the food in any fashion you are depleting or breaking down the vitamins, minerals, and proteins. Think of it this way, raw veggies are much better for humans raw (or lightly steamed) than they are cooked because we cook out all the vitamins/mineral the veggies contain.A

Q: I wont agree with giving my toy dog to high of protein levels so how will I know exacly how much should be feed?
This is the big one for me too and that's where joining the raw/barf lists or purchasing some recommended books on feeding raw comes in. I'm fortunate, my vet actually advocates raw/barf feeding, especially for dogs such as Ricky with epilepsy, Bandit with his sensitive tummy issues (which blows my mind), and other dogs living with a whole host of problems from allergies to chronic ear problems to renal & diabetic issues, so should I decided to stick with the raw diet for Ricky (at minimum), the first thing I'll do is consult with him as to what percentages of protein, fat, carbs, etc. he believes Ricky should have. Since Ricky has been on the phenobarbital, he has gained several pounds & I really need to get those pounds off of him. As it is, I've cut his food intake almost in half, but the PB makes the poor boy just ravenous all the time. I've been giving him unsalted green beans & pure pumpkin just to help fill the poor kid up with little to no calorie intake, but he's not losing the weight. The Nature's Variety site has a calculator by weight of how much you should feed and if memory serves, it said Ricky should get 8 medallions/day (roughly 1 cup of food). Because he's only getting it in the evening right now, I am giving him 2 medallions with just under 1/4 C of kibble, or 3 medallions with just a small handful of kibble mixed in.

Q: I have lizards that love to eat mice and I barely get to the store to provide them. This is just not very convenient for me. I need a food that I can buy and will be accessible in my home for at least a whole month, would you still recommend a raw diet to me?
This is the exact reason why if I go raw/barf, I will shell out the $$ for an already prepared frozen/dehydrated diet. I don't want to spend a day every weekend grinding meat, bones, veggies, etc. & freezing for the next week's meals (not to mention my raw meat issues). I know me, if that were the only way to do it, I just won't. There's not much I wouldn't do for my doggies, but giving up day out of my weekends to prepare the next week's meals is one of them.

Q: Should you still add food supplements such as Missing Link when feeding a raw diet?
Again, it's my understanding that if you are preparing the raw/barf diet yourself, it is a must for you to read up on the minimums/maximums percentages of proteins, veggies, fruits, vitamins & minerals, etc. that your dog needs & tailor your diet around that. I, personally, don't want to spend hours learning these percentages, which fruits/veggies are highest in what vitamins & minerals, how much should be given, etc. That's where the already prepared frozen or dehydrated foods come in.

Q: What is a holistic diet?
Holistic generally means that the meat sources are organically fed, antibiotic & steroid freed, and the grains, veggies, etc., are grown organically & pesticide free.

Q: What is the difference from raw diets, dehydrated diets, and holistic diets?
Raw diets are just that, dehydrated is generally accomplished by just that dehydrating the products, you add water & let sit for 10-20 minutes to be rehydrated and voila, it's raw again. The same for the freeze dried (accomplished by flash freezing). Holistic is as I set out above.

Here's a few links that I've saved - mind you, I have not read all of these thoroughly as of yet, but I bookmarked the sites for later reading.

Honest Kitchen dehydrated: http://www.puplife.com/dogsupplies/embark10.html

http://www.totallyrawdogfood.com/

Site with helpful links: http://dogaware.com/ (especially click into Dog Feeding info)

Dr. Billinghurst's site: http://www.barfproducts.com/

http://www.naturesvariety.com/conten...73B6wyt2385FBE

http://www.omaspride.com/products.htm - this one has lots of novel proteins which is something I really like. My problem is the distributor in my area isn;t here yet, she's relocating from Arizona to Missouri. Once she's here, she has generously offered to give me free samples of my choice of products.

http://dogtorj.tripod.com/id5.html Dr. J has an excellent site and is recognized as one of the leaders in research of health issues & diet in K9s. You'll find links to natural foods, raw diet, etc. here. Definitely bookmark this page.

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-...pplements.html This one is generally geared towards epileptic dogs, but still has very helpful & useful info.

http://www.mordanna.com/dogfood/ - Very informative site on K9 nutrition in general, how to read/know what's in your dog's dry food kibble, etc....another keeper bookmark for me.

http://landofpuregold.com/treats.htm Some healthy, organic treats.

Also keep in mind that most advocate giving prebiotics & probiotics, especially during the initial switch over stage to aid in the digestion. With Bandit's tummy issues, I've been giving a pre/probiotic supplement for quite some time now (in addition to low fat yogurt).

The one thing you will note about all of these various raw/barf diet plans is that there is little to no grain products fed at all. How many times have you seen wolves or coyotes in a corn field nibbling on the corn or stripping the beans off soybean plants? The answer is never. While K9s are ominvores, grains have never been a part of their diet and have been found to be the number one factor in K9 allergies, IBS/IBD & leaky gut syndrome, and recurring infections (such as ears) & many other health ailments.

[COLOR=Purple]Hope this gives you a place to at least start
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Old 04-17-2006, 03:22 PM   #8
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Default raw vs. kibble continued...

Sorry for all of the long post but I am sure that you'll find some of it, if not all of it, very informative.

Good luck!
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Old 04-17-2006, 03:29 PM   #9
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Thanks so much for posting this. You gave me a lot to look into. If I find any other info, I'll post it. You have been a great help.

Tessa
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Old 04-17-2006, 06:49 PM   #10
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Your welcome!

I'd hate to give up the kibble because then I'd have no reason or excuse to spend all my money at the pet supply stores. I'd have no reason to go or be there in the first place, lol.

I've seriously been considering the switch though.

Good luck.
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Old 04-17-2006, 10:17 PM   #11
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Nazir, when you answer a question, you really answer a question.
I feed mine kibble and homecooked. I go back and forth about the raw.
Thank you, that was very interesting.
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Old 04-17-2006, 10:25 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itspuppyluv
Nazir, when you answer a question, you really answer a question.
I feed mine kibble and homecooked. I go back and forth about the raw.
Thank you, that was very interesting.
Yes, this thread was very informative!!
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Old 04-18-2006, 04:05 AM   #13
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Default things you can get with cooked but not raw

I considered doing raw. I have friends who own stores in the holistic field and I researched and researched. There are some positive things about raw and negative. From my personal observations of people doing it and my research, I choose cooked food. Some of the benefits of cooking, you can't get with raw. Cooking allows some things to be absorbed that won't get absorbed through raw feeding.
I found an article yesterday online and it talked about all the things you get from cooking that you can't get from raw. Good things. I don't rememnber where I found this article but it was so interesting. Also Azmira has a studied on their site and Burns dog food has an article and history of Barf. You have to search on their site to find it. The Animal Advocate also has info on his site.
If raw works for some people, great! I think they shoudl use it. I chose not too but I am happy with my decision.
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:23 PM   #14
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I think that I will eventually do either raw, barf, or cooked diets. I worry though because I know that one day, I'll have more animals than I'd prefer to cook for, LOL.

Contrary to that, I am just SO tired of leaving my dogs' health and diets in the hands of these businesses. No sooner than you find one diet that works, the company will switch ingredients (using lesser quality supplaments), have recalls, etc.

It seems as though, every year around this time, my fur babies suffer with some sort of food allergies. Last year, for this same reason, I had to switch from Wellness to Merrick canned and Natural Balance kibble.

I don't know how many of you may have noticed this but most dog food companies switch their formulas slightly around this time of the year. Perhaps, it's due to the supply and demand or the inflation in the needed/used supplies or products. Whatever the case or reasoning, it blatantly shows that these companies are more worried about their profits, more so than the pets themselves.

For me, this is not a person and/or company that I'd rely on to feed my dogs. I figure, I'd be better off researching what it is that a dog should have and doing it myself! At least, by doing this, I'd be alble to eradicate all the junk and fillers which are included in the kibble.

Poohie... Then I'd have no reason to go to the pet supply store. That would suck BUT I do a majority of my ordering online anyways.

IMO

Last edited by Nazir's; 04-18-2006 at 02:26 PM.
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