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Old 03-01-2006, 11:26 AM   #1
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Confused New Here! Went to vet; More confused than ever, please help!

Hello everyone!

New to Yorkie talk and though this is my first post, I have been coming to your site Alot for answers and advice since we brought home our new baby boy Cubby! First, I just wanted to say how helpful you all are and how beneficial this site is!

We bought Cubby @ 3 mths from a breeder that lives 5 or 10 miles from us. We were told that he'd had all of his puppy shots and that the next shot he'd need would be the rabies shot @ around 4 mths and that he was in perfect health. We asked the breeder which vet she had taken Cubby to. She told us and gave her high recommendations, and since Cubby had started with this vet, we decided to continue taking him there since she was familiar with him.

After doing some reading on this site, I have come to realize that I should have taken Cubby to the vet right after getting him, but aside from him being thin, he's perfectly healthy; eating great, going to the bathroom regularly, thriving with us, so we waited and @ 4 mths brought Cubby to the recommended vet for his rabies shot, this was Yesterday. We won't be going back to this vet.

At the vet, the first thing I found out was that Cubby had not had all of his puppy shots, he still needs two distemper/parvo shots along with the rabies shot. The vet and her assistant gave Cubby a distemper/parvo shot yesterday. She stuck him with the needle 3 times before successfully delivering the shot and when he yelped and jumped while being stuck, the vet and the assistant said. "Oh I remember him now, he's the whiner, the crier of the litter." After this, she examined him and while feeling his back legs, she says, "Oh, he's the one with the knees." Then she tells me that Cubby has floating knees, that she can push them out in either direction but they go back in place right away on their own, and that he's only a 1 or a 2 on the scale, and that if we help him to gain some muscle in his legs, it will help. Next, we talk about him being thin. I tell her that I am feeding Cubby Innova puppy food and supplementing his diet with fruits and vegetables and giving him only natural treats and ask her for advice on helping him to gain weight. Immediately she says that she's never heard of Innova. I tell her that it is one of the best foods available and she says, "they all say that, but they are not, you need to get him on a better food that will put some weight on him," and she starts raving about Eukanuba Small Breed puppy food.

Next I tell her that I've noticed that Cubby's skin seems dry and flaky and that he scratches alot, that I know he has no fleas, that I use Coat Handler products on him and ask if there is anything I can supplement him with that will help with dry skin. I got no answer except for her to push the Eukanuba on me again because it will help his skin too. Then I asked what product I could buy that would not only clean his ears but dry them out after a bath, and again I got no answer. I was told to come back in 3 wks for him to get the other distemper/parvo shot and the rabies shot @ the same time, and am unsure whether getting all of these shots @ one time is safe.

I'm a little upset with the breeder for being told that Cubby was up to date on his shots, and alot upset with the breeder for not being told about his knee problem. (With the way the vet said, "oh, the one with the knees," I'm sure the knee problem was mentioned to the breeder when Cubby was there with her.)

As for the vet, I didn't like the comment that was made about Cubby being a crier while she was sticking him three times with a needle, none of my questions were answered, and I was made to feel like a bad mother for feeding Cubby Innova instead of Eukanuba. Cubby will be going to a new vet from now on.

In the meantime, I was hoping all of you could help me get the answers that the vet did not give me.

1. Should I switch his food to Eukanuba Small breed puppy instead of Innova? The vet gave me a sample and he does chow it down, but I can't help but think that though I'd rather eat a cheeseburger than certain kinds of fish, a diet of just cheeseburgers is not very healthy even though it would put the weight on.
2. If I keep Cubby on Innova, how can I help him to gain weight in a healthy way? What vitamins, supplements, foods?
3. What can I do to get rid of his dry skin? Supplements, vitamins, Shampoos?
4. What is a good product to both clean his ears and dry them out after a bath?

Thank you in advance for any help you can give me!

Tina
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Old 03-01-2006, 11:39 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubby's Mom
Hello everyone!

New to Yorkie talk and though this is my first post, I have been coming to your site Alot for answers and advice since we brought home our new baby boy Cubby! First, I just wanted to say how helpful you all are and how beneficial this site is!

We bought Cubby @ 3 mths from a breeder that lives 5 or 10 miles from us. We were told that he'd had all of his puppy shots and that the next shot he'd need would be the rabies shot @ around 4 mths and that he was in perfect health. We asked the breeder which vet she had taken Cubby to. She told us and gave her high recommendations, and since Cubby had started with this vet, we decided to continue taking him there since she was familiar with him.

After doing some reading on this site, I have come to realize that I should have taken Cubby to the vet right after getting him, but aside from him being thin, he's perfectly healthy; eating great, going to the bathroom regularly, thriving with us, so we waited and @ 4 mths brought Cubby to the recommended vet for his rabies shot, this was Yesterday. We won't be going back to this vet.

At the vet, the first thing I found out was that Cubby had not had all of his puppy shots, he still needs two distemper/parvo shots along with the rabies shot. The vet and her assistant gave Cubby a distemper/parvo shot yesterday. She stuck him with the needle 3 times before successfully delivering the shot and when he yelped and jumped while being stuck, the vet and the assistant said. "Oh I remember him now, he's the whiner, the crier of the litter." After this, she examined him and while feeling his back legs, she says, "Oh, he's the one with the knees." Then she tells me that Cubby has floating knees, that she can push them out in either direction but they go back in place right away on their own, and that he's only a 1 or a 2 on the scale, and that if we help him to gain some muscle in his legs, it will help. Next, we talk about him being thin. I tell her that I am feeding Cubby Innova puppy food and supplementing his diet with fruits and vegetables and giving him only natural treats and ask her for advice on helping him to gain weight. Immediately she says that she's never heard of Innova. I tell her that it is one of the best foods available and she says, "they all say that, but they are not, you need to get him on a better food that will put some weight on him," and she starts raving about Eukanuba Small Breed puppy food.

Next I tell her that I've noticed that Cubby's skin seems dry and flaky and that he scratches alot, that I know he has no fleas, that I use Coat Handler products on him and ask if there is anything I can supplement him with that will help with dry skin. I got no answer except for her to push the Eukanuba on me again because it will help his skin too. Then I asked what product I could buy that would not only clean his ears but dry them out after a bath, and again I got no answer. I was told to come back in 3 wks for him to get the other distemper/parvo shot and the rabies shot @ the same time, and am unsure whether getting all of these shots @ one time is safe.

I'm a little upset with the breeder for being told that Cubby was up to date on his shots, and alot upset with the breeder for not being told about his knee problem. (With the way the vet said, "oh, the one with the knees," I'm sure the knee problem was mentioned to the breeder when Cubby was there with her.)

As for the vet, I didn't like the comment that was made about Cubby being a crier while she was sticking him three times with a needle, none of my questions were answered, and I was made to feel like a bad mother for feeding Cubby Innova instead of Eukanuba. Cubby will be going to a new vet from now on.

In the meantime, I was hoping all of you could help me get the answers that the vet did not give me.

1. Should I switch his food to Eukanuba Small breed puppy instead of Innova? The vet gave me a sample and he does chow it down, but I can't help but think that though I'd rather eat a cheeseburger than certain kinds of fish, a diet of just cheeseburgers is not very healthy even though it would put the weight on.
2. If I keep Cubby on Innova, how can I help him to gain weight in a healthy way? What vitamins, supplements, foods?
3. What can I do to get rid of his dry skin? Supplements, vitamins, Shampoos?
4. What is a good product to both clean his ears and dry them out after a bath?

Thank you in advance for any help you can give me!

Tina

I am so sorry that you had such a problem with the vet and such a dishonest breeder. Just out of curosity(sp) have you called the breeder and told her what the vet told you? Did she give you a health certificate? I'm not sure how this works but, if she did I would think that she would be responsible for some of the responsibility since she failed to give you correct information.

Anyway on to your baby. If the food you are giving your baby has corn in it he could be having an allergic reaction to it. I give my two Ultra made by nutro) puppy food it is more of a holistic food, it has salmon meal, chicken meal, lamb meal, sunflower oil, flaxseed, whole brown rice, fish oil, just to name a few. Mine have been on this for months with no dry flaky skin no reactions at all. I love it and will never feed them anything else unless one or both of them develop some type of reaction to it.

For the itching skin. You can get shampoos specifically for itching I would try that. You could probably also give him vitamins. What I would do is contact another vet and see what they have to say. If you don't want to wait until it is time for his next shots. I would just pay for the office visit and get a second opinion, especially for his knees.

Please keep us informed. By the way, welcome.

I hope I was of some help. Please keep us posted.
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Old 03-01-2006, 11:48 AM   #3
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i actually had to switch snickers from eukanuba for itching... it has corn in it and alot of puppies (so i have heard) have trouble with this food and allergies... the most hypo-allergenic food (or so i am told) is Nutro...
since we have switched her she almost never scratches and her skin/coat looks better...
as far as the dry skin people on here have told me try an oatmeal shampoo
and roya treatmeant honey oatmeal shampoo/conditioner has been recommended several times on here
i will be trying it but havent as of yet so i cant give you results but if you do a forum search on here it will pull up....
good luck!
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Old 03-01-2006, 12:08 PM   #4
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I don't think the breeder was necessarily lying about being up to date on shots. Puppy shots include several rounds of vaccinations given at certain time periods. He probably was up to date when you got him, but now is due for a couple more. Personally, I don't let my vet give more than one shot at a time, these are small dogs and that's a lot for their little systems to handle at once!

The vet's knee assessment bothers me. If he has luxating patellas this early on, it could progress and cause incredible pain at an early age. Did you get any kind of health guarantee? I think this normally qualifies as a genetic condition and depending on how the health guarantee reads, you may be entitled to a refund (but it may also require you return the puppy!) You'll have to be VERY careful with him and try not to let him jump off of anything. One wrong landing could mean surgery to fix something....

I'll try to answer your other questions as best as I can....

1. Personally, I'd stick with the Innova. IMO, it's a better food. The vet may be receiving some kind of deal/kickback for pushing the Eukanuba. Plus, their information regarding canine nutrition is often received right from the food manufacturers.... And what manufacturer isn't going to say their food is the best?

2. If you want to chunk him up a bit (but not too much! Being overweight is just as bad as being underweight!)... Give him all the food he wants. Give him a bit of Nutrical/Nutristat once or twice a day, which is a high calorie paste that contains all kinds of essential vitamins. Give him healthy treats but in reasonable quanitites. Snacks shouldn't make up the bulk of his diet. There's tons of suggestions for good treats on YT, do a search.

3. Giving him a better quality food without corn and other fillers can help the dry skin. Use a moisturizing shampoo (oatmeal varities work well) and conditioner. You could use different supplements... There's a ton of different vitamin tabs, liquids or powders you could give your pup. I've just started using Missing Link, which is a powder you put on their food.

4. I don't use any specific kind of ear cleaner. Just whatever was at the pet store. Keeping the ear canal free of excess hair and drying the ears with a soft towel after baths will help prevent any problems. Just don't stick anything (Q-tips or whatever) too far in there, you don't want to risk damaging his ear drums.

I hope other more experience Yorkie folks answer your questions too... I certainly don't know everything and am still learning myself!

Welcome to YT! We're all glad you joined. This forum is full of wonderful, knowledgable yorkie addicts and I'm sure you'll have no problems getting any answers you need!
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Old 03-01-2006, 12:36 PM   #5
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Wow! That was fast! Thanks to both of you for the quick response!!

I too have read that both corn and wheat can cause allergies, that's why I thought Innova was a great product. Although, now that I look at the ingredients again, is ground barley a wheat product? Here are the ingredients in Innova puppy food:
Turkey
Chicken
Chicken Meal
Ground Barley
Ground Brown Rice
Cottage Cheese
Tomatoes
Sunflower Oil
Chicken Fat
Natural Flavors
Flaxseed
Potatoes
Herring
Apples
Carrots
Alfalfa Sprouts
Egg
Garlic
Dicalcium Phosphate
Potassium Chloride
Chicory Root Extract
Taurine
Vitamins/Minerals
Viable Naturally Occurring
Turkey
Chicken
Chicken Meal
Ground Barley
Ground Brown Rice
Cottage Cheese
Tomatoes
Sunflower Oil
Chicken Fat
Natural Flavors
Flaxseed
Potatoes
Herring
Apples
Carrots
Alfalfa Sprouts
Egg
Garlic
Dicalcium Phosphate
Potassium Chloride
Chicory Root Extract
Taurine
Vitamins/Minerals
Viable Naturally Occurring Microorganisms

I will also check into the Royal Honey Oatmeal shampoo/conditioner, thanks!

From the breeder I received docs that proved that both parents were akc registered and the paperwork to send in to get Cubby registered with akc.
I'm not sure what a health certificate is. I also received a document that says,"Official Certificate of Veterinary Inspection For Sale of a Dog or Cat" which states that puppy has no infectuous diseases or parasites and has a list of what vaccines he'd had so far. I have not called the breeder. Not sure what good it would do now. I have had Cubby for over a month now, I think it's probably too late to do anything now, and the vet says that though Cubby may need an operation on his knees when he is older, right now they are not that bad and to just try to build up his muscle tone in his legs.

I just really wanted to let everyone know that no matter how nice and helpful the breeder seems, even if they say the puppy is perfectly healthy and that the parents have no genetic faults, and even if the puppy seems 100% healthy like Cubby did, TAKE YOUR PUPPY TO THE VET AS SOON AS YOU GET HIM OR HER. You just don't know what you are not being told.

Please don't think I am speaking about all breeders because I'm not.
I know that there are wonderful, caring, honest, responsible breeders out there (and on this site!) I just wish that I had found one of you when I began my search for Cubby!

Tina
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Old 03-01-2006, 12:43 PM   #6
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Innova is a much better food than Eukanuba. For the itching you might try adding some omega 3 fatty acids to the diet. You can get Missing Link at Petsmart. You just sprinkle it on their food.
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Old 03-01-2006, 01:09 PM   #7
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Welcome Welcome Welcome
Innova is one of the best foods on the market, so if I were you, I'd try to stick with it. No to Eukanuba. Most vets get kickbacks from major dog food dealers -- and on top of that most of them are not canine nutritionists.

On to the weight gaining issue -- how much are you feeding Cubby? Do you free feed and make food available 24/7? If not you might try that. Puppies have small stomachs and many would prefer to eat several small meals or to nibble off and on all day.

Itchy Flaky Skin-- try adding some cold pressed fish oil, or salmon oil to the diet, there are several good commercial brands -- Grizzly Salmon Oil is a good product. I have had good luck with Coat Handlers, be sure to thoroughly rinse all of the shampoo out of his coat before conditioning. I usually rinse with running water for 5 minutes, it may be excessive, but what can I say. There are many good shampoos especially made for dry skin -- you have already gotten some good suggestions, and will probably get more.
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Old 03-01-2006, 01:22 PM   #8
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Sounds as if that vet is, oops! the word I was gonna use is not allowed! LOL Do not change from the food you use. Free feed him til he is older and he will plump up as much as he needs to. I recommend FlaxSeedOil on the food for Omega oils..I don't like the smell of fish oil. I don't recommend treats very often. I just use a different brand of dog food and hand feed..that makes it a treat.
My vaccine regimen is started at 8 weeks-12-16 weeks. Maybe the breeder uses the same schedule. I tell my new families to wait at least 2 weeks after last DA2PPv vaccine before getting rabies shot. I am totally baffled as to why the vet needed to stick that poor baby 3 times. Gawsh, you just stick the needle under the skin and press plunger and you are done. They are given sub-q (right under the skin) not in the muscle. The luxating patellas at grade 1 or 2 might be troublesome BUT no matter, the breeder should be notified so that she can make sure the vet checks and tells her if there are positive results. The health doc. simply means that the vet signed that the puppy has no infectious diseases at the time of the exam..
I also have a statement that the puppy is to be checked by the vet within ____hours included in my sales agreement..Best of luck with your new baby...
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Old 03-01-2006, 01:38 PM   #9
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1. the first three ingredients on Eukanuba small breed puppy are: Chicken,
Chicken By-Product Meal, Corn Meal compared to Innova puppy that has: Turkey, Chicken, Chicken Meal

2. To help him gain weight, maybe try adding something that's high in calories by not bad for him, like nutrical? Can you see Cubby's rib cage? or just feel them? How much does he weigh now? My understanding is that you should be able to feel his ribs but not see them. If you can see them, then he's under weight. If you can't even feel them readily then he's overweight.

3. Oatmeal shampoos is always good for the skin. Innova does not corn so you're safe there. but there is always the possibility that your puppy can be allergic to other foods and may have to switch to a food without chicken, like lamb or duck. Then there's also the environmental possibility, like he's having a bad reaction to the cleaning products you use.

4. I use the ear cleanser by Aristopet. it's a non oily lotion to help clean and dry ears. i will either drop some in his ear and rub during his shower or put some on a cotton swap and clean his ears with it.

good luck!
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Old 03-01-2006, 01:49 PM   #10
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I skimmed the replies and good advice there. Puppies can get something like a dandruff that will cause scratching that has nothing to do with the food. He may possibly have an allergy to an ingredient in Innova but maybe not. You can try to clear up the dandruff which looks like a dry flaking with either Selsun Blue shampoo or Head & Shoulders dandruff shampoo works too. I recommend using it once a week, dilute it about 1/2 and 1/2 water shampoo, leave the lather on a few minutes and rinse well. If it works you should see improvement over time and then you can switch to a regular good shampoo after it has cleared up completely.
I am not sure if anyone addressed the vaccinations but I never recommend rabies given at the same time as anything else.
I would be inclined to find another Vet. Be sure it is one familiar with Toy breeds. Many Vets think they know what a knee problem feels like but most don't know and can actually damage a knee if they are too enthusiastic with it. I wouldn't go with one Vet's opinion especially one that has trouble giving a simple vaccination!
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Old 03-01-2006, 03:49 PM   #11
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I too thought that a distemper/parvo and a rabies shot all at one time was too much. The vet wanted to give Cubby all of these shots when I was there. I said no, to just do the distemper/parvo. I didn't get a health guarantee, but it doesn't matter. There is no way that I would ask for a refund and give Cubby back, I love him so much already, you all know what I mean. I'm just worried about his little knees and will definately be switching to a different vet for another opinion.

We do free feed Cubby, food is available to him all day, and I bought some Suppli-Cal(compared to Nutrical) while at the vets that she said to give an inch of 3 times a day. Can't see his ribcage, (especially with all of that hair!) but you can really feel it and he has a bony little butt! He is 18 weeks today and weighs 3 & 1/2 lbs.

Thanks to all for all of the advice. I'm going to get some fish oil and the ear cleaner recommended tomorrow and will start researching oatmeal shampoos and conditioners..

Thanks again!

Tina
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Old 03-01-2006, 03:58 PM   #12
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Tina, it sounds like Cubby is one lucky little dude, can I come and be his little(?) sister? I promise I will not make potty mistakes in the house.....

Good work mom!
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Old 03-01-2006, 08:27 PM   #13
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Tina welcome to YT!!

I agree with those who said that Innova is one of the best foods there is. That being said though if you really feel that he needs to gain a little weight switch him to Innova Evo. It is suitable for yorkies of all ages and it certainly put some weight on my Gypsy. She needed fattening up because she had lost some size due to a C-section and then being spayed once the puppies were weaned. She's looking much better now and I've just put her back on the ordinary Innova because I don't want her to gain too much. If your little one is active enough he can probably stay on the Evo.

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Old 03-01-2006, 08:38 PM   #14
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Default Hello And Welcome Cubbysmom!

I am so sorry you had that kind of experience at a place that is supposed to be professional.
Sounds like you have gotten a lot of good advice already, but I would like to ask if there is a Puppy Lemon Law in your state?
You may not have to return Cubby. And the breeder should help with the Vet bills in regards to his knee problems.
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Old 03-01-2006, 10:06 PM   #15
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Welcome to Yorkie Talk. I think you have gotten some great advice. I will add that I cut a cotton ball in fourths and put one little piece in each ear at bath time. Wonderful people on yorkie talk and tons of information. Good luck with your new furbaby. I'd change vets also...........
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