Food Recommendations?

[SamanthaS]

Just came across this explaining why ingredients aren't true descriptions of how good a dog food is.


The only detail needed is that the ingredient description (AAFCO 2016 pg 210) for any one of the terms in the ingredient list is too vague to be certain of the nutritional value for 2 reasons:

1. The "terms" used in the ingredient list although ‘defined’ are of little to no value to anyone. They are defined for the player in the industry – not veterinarians, nutritionists or pet owners.

Example of the nasty terms rating web sites like to pick on: "by-products" (vegetable or animal type).

First, the definition of any “by-product" is simply the second product resulting after some processing of the primary intended product. If corn meal is the primary intended product, then the oil removed is a by-product and vice versa. It means nothing more than that.

Organ meats (kidney, livers, etc) are by-products of animal processing because the muscle meat was the first intended product. A pet food manufacturer could list "meat by-products" if the ingredient came as a mix of organ meats, or they could list the organs individually (liver, kidney, hearts, etc) on the label.

AAFCO definitions (paraphrased): rendered = cooked; non rendered = raw

‘Meat’: the clean flesh derived from the slaughtered mammals and limited to skeletal muscle, tongue diaphragm, heart, or esophagus with fat, skin, sinew, nerve and blood vessels. AAFCO 2016 pg 375.

‘Meat by-products’: non-rendered clean parts other than meat derived from the slaughtered mammals. May include lungs, spleen, kidney brain, liver, blood, stomach or intestines (excluding the contents of the stomach or intestine). This definitions goes on to specifically exclude hair, horns, teeth and hoof. AAFCO 2016 pg 375.

Now people think they know what ‘meat’ is and do not think twice about eating it themselves when served up in a restaurant but do not realize that in pet food term ‘meat’ includes tongue, esophagus etc and probably would think twice before they themselves eat a hamburger made of what AAFCO has defined as ‘meat’ although still nutritious.

The term ‘meat’ is for mammals so there are similar definitions for ‘poultry’. Another definition that people are unaware of is that “meat” can only be from beef, pig, lamb or goat. So there is no room for the exaggerated claim about horses, zoo, birds, wildlife, or game animals, etc in the meat definition. No dogs or cats either - The FDA developed a canine and feline DNA test and then tested pet foods and found no evidence of dog or cat DNA in any pet food products. So

‘Meat and bone meal’ is a cooked product of mammals that includes bone but cannot include blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide, manure, stomach contents or added extraneous materials (such as what some have claimed, i.e., floor sweepings or saw dust). AAFCO 2016 pg 377.

‘Meal’ is simply the ground product after the water has been removed by cooking. Water has no nutrient value, expensive to ship and can always be added back. So those who are anti-meal are simply not thinking.

There are additional calcium and phosphorous content specification on this particular ingredient so the pet food manufacturer using this ingredient can gage the amount of bone included. Some want high bone content to help with the final calcium and phosphorous content of their pet food, some do not because the calcium and phosphorous is coming from a different ingredient. There is no right or wrong here … it depends on pet food formulation desired and the other ingredients being used such that the FINAL nutrient profile meets AAFCO nutrient recommendations.

And here is what’s worth talking about and what does separate the good from the ugly……..

It is entirely the responsibility of the manufacturer to test each ingredient for nutrient value and a list of known contaminants before accepting and using that ingredient in their pet food product. The better manufacturers have very specific contracts with ingredient vendors which outlines the nutrient profile, and double check the ingredient nutrient profile in their own labs before using that ingredient. So when I see specific pet food manufacturers on the FDA recall list repeatedly for things that should have been discovered at the point plant delivery and before incorporation into their product ( such as aflatoxin or most recently …. pentobarbital) speak volumes to me about their quality control (QC).

Ingredient lists are virtually meaningless in evaluating a pet food but the reason why certain manufacturers come up on the FDA Pet Food Recall list speaks loudly about QC. The nutrient profile of an INDIVIDUAL ingredient is worthless to the pet owner and nutritionist because the nutrient profile of FINAL pet product is controlled, stated on the label and usually available upon request.



2. If not defined specifically, then a common or usual name can be used. AAFCO 2016 pg 210.

Many pet food manufacturer are using this 2nd 'escape' clause to attract pet owner as when they list individual fruits, e.g. apples. No doubt a common name and we all think we know what an apple is but there is NO way to known what parts of the ‘apple’ was used in the pet food: whole, skins, core, pomace, stems, pieces a by-product of making apple pies, etc are actually used in the food. Yes manufactures may have a picture of a wholesome looking shiny red apple on their website but there is no way to know if that accurately represents the ingredient used in the product – not without going to the plant to see for yourself.

If the definitions were tight with specific nutrient profiles we would all be happier but that is simply not plausible. The people rating pet foods based on the label simply are ‘rendering’ opinions without a full education on the subject – dangerous but allowable somehow on the web. Majority of those self-anointed pet food gurus have never been in any manufacturing plant, never worked for a manufacturer or been an ingredient vendor to know firsthand of what they speak. Then most website simply copy the rhetoric on another. So now we a whole slew of website repeating the same bunk in a never ending circle - absent of any reality check or first hand knowledge. Then pet owners visit these multiple “cut and paste made” web sites thinking they are all separate independent first-hand knowing web sites, and then the pet owner thinks they themselves have done “research” on the topic of pet foods – having read not one primary source of information. The whole thing is a house of cards…..

Very few people are given pet food manufacturing tours, veterinary nutritionist are among that select group (myself included), and notice how those individuals do not ‘rate’ pet foods. In fact most will tell you, the ingredient list is of very limited value to them in making pet food recommendations. Why?

Because in the end, any one ingredient, no matter how defined, does vary widely in nutrient content. The definitions are much too vague to "rate" any one ingredient and so no one can rate the entire ingredient list and say that it represents the entire pet food product. IF the information in the building blocks is vague and lacks detail, how can that poor quality information suddenly become a fine tuned instrument for “rating” the whole pet food product? It can’t and truth is it was NEVER intended by AAFCO that the ingredient list could be used to ‘rate’ pet foods. It is a very poor tool. The whole rating game online and in pet journals has no true value to the individual pet owner trying to do best by their dog or cat.

[SamanthaS]

Weird I tried posting something before my last post and it never showed up. I've been using Royal Canin Yorkie food since June 2007 and have never once thought about switching. I trust the specialists

[sandy simpson]

You are extremely knowledable and I appreciate all the wisdom and information you have shared. We all want the best for our dogs. So confusing just don't know what company to trust and feed.

[henryoh007]

Interesting perspective for feeding so I am going to put in my two cents. Royal Canin and Blue Buffalo, he has eaten for the last decade but only small amounts. Mostly eats a chicken stew with olive oil, water, celery, purple cabbage, carrots, green beans, apples, pears, sweet potatoes and colorful peppers all minced with mostly chopped and lightly seasoned chicken breasts and of course boneless, no telling when a bone might be found by his nose. I don't need an unnecessary vet bill. I put extra water seems like he never drinks enough water and I want him to live a long time. I must say his coat seems almost brilliant and many have commented on it. We share everything except his his dog food LOL !!

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by henryoh007

Interesting perspective for feeding so I am going to put in my two cents. Royal Canin and Blue Buffalo, he has eaten for the last decade but only small amounts. Mostly eats a chicken stew with olive oil, water, celery, purple cabbage, carrots, green beans, apples, pears, sweet potatoes and colorful peppers all minced with mostly chopped and lightly seasoned chicken breasts and of course boneless, no telling when a bone might be found by his nose. I don't need an unnecessary vet bill. I put extra water seems like he never drinks enough water and I want him to live a long time. I must say his coat seems almost brilliant and many have commented on it. We share everything except his his dog food LOL !!

If your dogs diet is made up of more then 10% of dog food then you really need to look at supplements and getting a recipe from a vet nutritionist if you want to home cook. Them not getting the right things they need that are found in the supplement can really harm your dog.

[henryoh007]

No doubt, he is getting his good share of dog food above 10%. I always mix in his dog food into his chicken stew. Please post and share this dog food supplement! I am sure everyone would love to understand your concerns. Thanks and Best Regards Henry

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by henryoh007

No doubt, he is getting his good share of dog food above 10%. I always mix in his dog food into his chicken stew. Please post and share this dog food supplement! I am sure everyone would love to understand your concerns. Thanks and Best Regards Henry

Well it would depend on what your vet nutritionist recommends. A lot of people here like balance it.

[pstinard]

Here is a link to the Balance-It website. You can check out their videos to see if you think it is right for you. https://secure.balanceit.com/

[henryoh007]

I really liked these videos on a vets balanced diet, extremely enlighten, Thanks a ton!

The Chicken and Rice video is almost exactly what I give buddy. The only difference is the oil, I cannot have canola or corn oil so he will continue with his olive oil and his wholesome share of Royal Canin. The olive oil make his coat is just brilliant and keeps us both healthy. It is posted on the balanceit.com website as one of the oils for dogs.

YES Royal Canin is a great yorkie food. I too don't like the high fat content but I compensate with running and fetching the ball and good exercise.

Again Thanks a ton for the great site ! https://secure.balanceit.com/

[Bella2017]

My Yorkie loves WELLNESS small puppy breed. ALL natural, no corn or by products. Real food. WELLNESS is the only one I find that actually lists great ingredients such as vegetables and chicken with rice. HAPPY I chose this over others.

[DeeDee63]

I feed my pom Urban Wolf. You mix it with cooked meat (we use ground beef). She was having trouble with anal glands and this has helped immensely.

[sandy simpson]

My yorkies have been eating beef and rice. Finally made stool. I bought fromm to mix
In. Only a tablespoon back to mushy stool. Now what. Is the fromm too rich. I fed a little 2x and the stool was mush. Any ideas

[Ermosa18]

Hello everyone:

I'm new to this forum and just wanted to see if anyone can help me out. Not to long ago I got a yorkie named max who is a year and half years old. Now the previous owner was feeding him just pedigree canned wet food which to me that was a red flag because he would feed him half the can one day and the other half the next. With friends and family owning dogs I've heard them say how wet dog food is bad and how it's not good for the dogs stomach. So being a new yorkie owner I had started leaning him away from pedigree and got him the small breed dry food brand of Buffalo, but I started to mix it with Cesar wetfood since I was trying to lean him away and he's been eating it with no problem but I want to get him to eat just plain dry food which I tried giving him just the Buffalo alone and he would not touch it, he is a picky eater and I think it's because of the kibble even though it's small kibbles. I had taken him over my aunts house who has a morkie that was purchased years ago in the same pet store that my dog was purchased from and the morkie had some of his dry food in the bowl which my dog ate with no problem. So I'm not sure if I should go back to the food that was given to him from the pet store since it's really small and it is what he was brought up with. It's just that the food isn't a name brand that I've heard of nor I know what's in it, but my aunts dogs had been eating it ever since he was a puppy and purchased from them. So it can't be that bad since it's what the store feeds the dogs prior to selling the puppies. Any recommendations or advice on how to go about just giving him dry food since I've been told it's best for their digestive system and their stool.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Ermosa18

Hello everyone:

I'm new to this forum and just wanted to see if anyone can help me out. Not to long ago I got a yorkie named max who is a year and half years old. Now the previous owner was feeding him just pedigree canned wet food which to me that was a red flag because he would feed him half the can one day and the other half the next. With friends and family owning dogs I've heard them say how wet dog food is bad and how it's not good for the dogs stomach. So being a new yorkie owner I had started leaning him away from pedigree and got him the small breed dry food brand of Buffalo, but I started to mix it with Cesar wetfood since I was trying to lean him away and he's been eating it with no problem but I want to get him to eat just plain dry food which I tried giving him just the Buffalo alone and he would not touch it, he is a picky eater and I think it's because of the kibble even though it's small kibbles. I had taken him over my aunts house who has a morkie that was purchased years ago in the same pet store that my dog was purchased from and the morkie had some of his dry food in the bowl which my dog ate with no problem. So I'm not sure if I should go back to the food that was given to him from the pet store since it's really small and it is what he was brought up with. It's just that the food isn't a name brand that I've heard of nor I know what's in it, but my aunts dogs had been eating it ever since he was a puppy and purchased from them. So it can't be that bad since it's what the store feeds the dogs prior to selling the puppies. Any recommendations or advice on how to go about just giving him dry food since I've been told it's best for their digestive system and their stool.

Don't ever buy a puppy from a pet store unless they are from a rescue orginization because puppies sold in pet stores come from puppy mills. I would not feed blue buffalo they have had a massive amount of recalls and they are not trust worthy. Wet food isn't bad for dogs at all. You can't try soaking the dry food in water for a bit and then drain it and that might be a way to start him eating it. What does your aunt feed? He seemed to like that.

[matese]

Some stores like Pet Supplies, Petco and PetSmart have sample bags of kibble that you can try. Like Lovetodream88 suggested, if Max will not eat crunchy food try adding a small bit of warm water to soften the kibble, drain off the excess water and see if Max will eat it. Feed him twice a day, once in the morning and once at night. For example say recommended daily amount to feed is 1/2 a cup a day, split that in half, feed 1/4 cup in the morning and 1/4 cup in the evening, say 7 or 8AM and 5 or 6 PM.
If you are feeding him Blue Buffalo I would change that, Blue Buffalo has had many recalls on their food, I don't trust that company.