For those following non-tradition vaccine schedule

[Furkidsfurme]

So in anticipation of a new pup this summer, I have been researching a lot. (I had 2 dogs over the years who died from immune related disorders. One with mast cell tumors-- 4 times removed and one from immune hemolytic anemia). I to relate these to vaccines. Anyway, for those who go by the one-time vaccines at 16 weeks, will the breeders generally not vaccinate your chosen pup if asked???? Most breeders give them first shots. Also, when they do get the 16 week shots, do they still get the combo vaccine, or individually spread out by days or weeks??? I tend to believe this one-time only thinking, as I don't like how much crap is being put into those little bodies so often, but I'm still kind of confused. I don't know how well my vets are going to take this. They already know me as being a kooky non-traditionalist!!!

[107barney]

I think vaccines are safe and effective. I follow the AAHA recommendations and my Yorkies are turning 16 this summer and in generally excellent health for their ages and breed

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Furkidsfurme

So in anticipation of a new pup this summer, I have been researching a lot. (I had 2 dogs over the years who died from immune related disorders. One with mast cell tumors-- 4 times removed and one from immune hemolytic anemia). I to relate these to vaccines. Anyway, for those who go by the one-time vaccines at 16 weeks, will the breeders generally not vaccinate your chosen pup if asked???? Most breeders give them first shots. Also, when they do get the 16 week shots, do they still get the combo vaccine, or individually spread out by days or weeks??? I tend to believe this one-time only thinking, as I don't like how much crap is being put into those little bodies so often, but I'm still kind of confused. I don't know how well my vets are going to take this. They already know me as being a kooky non-traditionalist!!!

Yes, I think it can be done. But, I do think you should provide your breeder easy-to-digest literature that explains and backs up what you're going for, so they're not confused. And, I'd think the breeder would most def require a significant deposit if you're asking for a custom vax schedule.

Once you get the pup, you may want to find a holistic vet in your area as they will typically be MUCH more up to date on the alternative vax options. Otherwise, I think you'd again want to share your literature (preferably peer-reviewed type stuff, if available) with a standard type vet so that you don't have to fight it out and get in an uncomfy conversation.

Rabies you'll have to follow by law of your state which will be either every yr or every 3 yrs.

The shots can still be combo shots, yes. Makes no difference in terms of that.

Good luck! Glad to see someone advocating for this kind of schedule as I do think it could be the wave of the future vax schedule down the line...

[Furkidsfurme]

I realize that most people feel as you do, but when you have a beloved pet suffer from immune related disease, you have no reason to think otherwise. I go above and beyond to keep my dogs immune systems at their peak. They eat premium and home cooked foods supplemented with raw apple cider vinegar, coconut oil/salmon oil (alternating) and tumeric. I am more than willing to have titers drawn to check immunity, even though it's more expensive . Anyway, just wondering if anyone here follows my way of thinking?

[Furkidsfurme]

Good idea with sharing literature with breeder and vet. Unfortunately, the closed holistic vet is 2 1/2 hours away. As far as breeder goes, he would actually be saving money on me by not getting their vaccines.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Furkidsfurme

I realize that most people feel as you do, but when you have a beloved pet suffer from immune related disease, you have no reason to think otherwise. I go above and beyond to keep my dogs immune systems at their peak. They eat premium and home cooked foods supplemented with raw apple cider vinegar, coconut oil/salmon oil (alternating) and tumeric. I am more than willing to have titers drawn to check immunity, even though it's more expensive . Anyway, just wondering if anyone here follows my way of thinking?

Yes, I would follow this schedule if I was getting a puppy at this time. The studies now back it up and it's just logical to give less shots if you can.

Don't bother with titers, they are just a waste of money. Remember, titers only measure humoral immunity, not cell-mediated immunity. So that means: you can have a positive titer, but not have cell-mediated immunity or you could have a negative titer but HAVE cell-mediated immunity. So the value of knowing whether a titer is + or - is basically worthless when used in this manner...it means nothing really.

[Furkidsfurme]

So, Wylie's Mom, would you just do the core vaccines at 16ish weeks and count on immunity for life (except for rabies)? My biggest concern is, that our vet always requires updated vaccines prior to any surgical procedure. I wonder if if they will accept the 16 week schedule for her spay? I'm also thinking it won't be adequate for doing therapy dog visits (which I was hoping to do, but but would take health over therapy dog training). I guess I have more reading to do regarding titers. The Dogs Naturally article seems to encourage titers. That's disappointing if what they are saying isn't substantiated!

[Furkidsfurme]

Ok so I just read another Dogs Naturally article about titers. Although I haven't yet wrapped my mind around the complexities of it, they do seem quite accurate when done about 3 weeks after the puppy shots. Thoughts?

[Furkidsfurme]

Titres: What Do They Mean? - Dogs Naturally Magazine

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by Furkidsfurme

Titres: What Do They Mean? - Dogs Naturally Magazine

There you go. This article basically agrees with Ann (Wylie's Mom) that titers don't indicate immunity. I would follow her advice--she has more experience than almost anyone on Yorkietalk .

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Furkidsfurme

So, Wylie's Mom, would you just do the core vaccines at 16ish weeks and count on immunity for life (except for rabies)? My biggest concern is, that our vet always requires updated vaccines prior to any surgical procedure. I wonder if if they will accept the 16 week schedule for her spay? I'm also thinking it won't be adequate for doing therapy dog visits (which I was hoping to do, but but would take health over therapy dog training). I guess I have more reading to do regarding titers. The Dogs Naturally article seems to encourage titers. That's disappointing if what they are saying isn't substantiated!

If it were me, I'd do the 16 wk shots, and then I'd probably vaccinate again when they were about 7 yrs old.

As far as vets and therapy dog issues, yes, I wouldn't be surprised if you faced opposition there, for sure!

Originally Posted by Furkidsfurme

Ok so I just read another Dogs Naturally article about titers. Although I haven't yet wrapped my mind around the complexities of it, they do seem quite accurate when done about 3 weeks after the puppy shots. Thoughts?

Titers only measure humoral immunity. So if you do the titer after 3 weeks and it's a positive titer, all you're learning is this: "yes, a shot of xyz was given". It actually tells you nothing about cell-mediated immunity whatsoever.

[Furkidsfurme]

Thanks everyone! Wylie's Mom, I have done a lot more reading on the subject (actually even bought the Dogs Naturally digital subscription), and I've learned a lot. I like your way of thinking and that is the way I will go. Now, I'm wondering what your thoughts are on spaying and neutering??? I've always had it done early (by 7 or 8 months), but now I'm second guessing that too!

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Furkidsfurme

Thanks everyone! Wylie's Mom, I have done a lot more reading on the subject (actually even bought the Dogs Naturally digital subscription), and I've learned a lot. I like your way of thinking and that is the way I will go. Now, I'm wondering what your thoughts are on spaying and neutering??? I've always had it done early (by 7 or 8 months), but now I'm second guessing that too!

The S/N (spay/neuter) is a tough one for me bc I really do believe that we all tend to do better with our normal hormones intact, doing their important functions in the body as they're meant to do, ya know? Hormones are just SO important for so many good reasons.

BUT. There are good reasons as well to s/n our pets - for the females, unspayed females have a higher risk of cancer and other issues; for the males, it makes them less "mating crazy" without a doubt....though I do feel bad altering the males bc it's not truly needed from a health aspect like w/ the female's risk. And just as important, fixing our pets does guarantee that we won't have any "oops" litters, which is always so tragic given we euthanize 3-4 million animals annually in the US right now .

So, there are good reasons to s/n...but I totally feel conflicted about it at the very same time as we're taking something away from them in terms of needed, natural chemicals and body processes.

I think all of mine were fixed around 8 mths old or so. Also, I tried to wait until all their baby teeth were in so that any retained baby teeth could be removed at the time of surgery.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Furkidsfurme

Thanks everyone! Wylie's Mom, I have done a lot more reading on the subject (actually even bought the Dogs Naturally digital subscription), and I've learned a lot. I like your way of thinking and that is the way I will go. Now, I'm wondering what your thoughts are on spaying and neutering??? I've always had it done early (by 7 or 8 months), but now I'm second guessing that too!

I too will put my two cents worth in. Very similiar to Annes opinions and only applicable to the toy breeds. This I must empathize. Certain large breeds will have other serious considerations.

Most studies about s+n were done on medium to large breed dogs - very few studies on the toy or small breed dogs. But given this and that we can extrapolate to small breeds - it is probably in the best health interest to spay females after maturity say 1+yr old and then it is health wise for the male no over weening health benefit to neuter. Again for the males in toy breeds only. For other breeds of dogs there actually might be more of a health risk to neuter.

But health benefit is only one factor in the decision making process. A very important one but there are others. Namely if your dog is neutered they can in no way procreate. To keep an intact dog around is to sign up for a more vigilant ownership responsibility. Mainly to keep your dog from mating. Do you know how to do this - and can you do this over the lifetime of your dog?

[Furkidsfurme]

Well, I'm definitely on the same wavelength then. Basically, there is no perfect answer. No right or wrong. I guess just go with my gut and hope the choice is the right one!