Commercial dog foods you may want to avoid ( And why that might be true)

[maxdog]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I absolutely love this and wish more people would actually take this to heart, on all sides of any matter at hand. For those who don't "get this" - hopefully you'll re-read it until you do, or remember it someday later in life when it suddenly gels and makes sense.

"Your way is not the only way." -- indeed.

Please allow others their opinion, whether or not it is congruent with yours or how you populate said opinion.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I absolutely love this and wish more people would actually take this to heart, on all sides of any matter at hand. For those who don't "get this" - hopefully you'll re-read it until you do, or remember it someday later in life when it suddenly gels and makes sense.

"Your way is not the only way." -- indeed.

Please allow others their opinion, whether or not it is congruent with yours or how you populate said opinion.

Oh, I totally agree which is why I don't start threads advising people what or what not to feed....even with a might or maybe in there. If we were to turn the tables here and start a thread about raw feeding and why you should not feed it I can just see the uproar now. I don't feed raw, but I don't tell anyone that they "maybe" should not unless they try to shove it down my throat as the only way to feed. What I will continue to do is to back reputable dog food companies especially those that I use for my pups. Giving reasons why I feed these foods is not the same thing as saying it is what everyone else should feed! Not sure why people are getting that from this thread.

This thread was not, imho, started to get input about different foods; but it has given opinions that were directly against what the OP had posted. That IS telling both sides. Seems that when we don't agree with an OP and we use valid sources, we are viewed as not being open to other ways of feeding. I personally use a variety of foods/methods so I DO know there are many ways to feed. I home cook, use RX foods, use canned foods and use kibble. And I use Hill's, Purina and Royal Canin. They are companies that have earned my trust. I don't personally care what anyone feeds their pups ... and only get vocal when there is a suggestion that I am poisoning my pups. Such rhetoric is highly offensive to me.

[Cindy_17]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I absolutely love this and wish more people would actually take this to heart, on all sides of any matter at hand. For those who don't "get this" - hopefully you'll re-read it until you do, or remember it someday later in life when it suddenly gels and makes sense.

"Your way is not the only way." -- indeed.

Please allow others their opinion, whether or not it is congruent with yours or how you populate said opinion.

Thank you Wylie's Mom, well said!

[Doodlebug]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Oh, I totally agree which is why I don't start threads advising people what or what not to feed....even with a might or maybe in there. If we were to turn the tables here and start a thread about raw feeding and why you should not feed it I can just see the uproar now. I don't feed raw, but I don't tell anyone that they "maybe" should not unless they try to shove it down my throat as the only way to feed. What I will continue to do is to back reputable dog food companies especially those that I use for my pups. Giving reasons why I feed these foods is not the same thing as saying it is what everyone else should feed! Not sure why people are getting that from this thread.

This thread was not, imho, started to get input about different foods; but it has given opinions that were directly against what the OP had posted. That IS telling both sides. Seems that when we don't agree with an OP and we use valid sources, we are viewed as not being open to other ways of feeding. I personally use a variety of foods/methods so I DO know there are many ways to feed. I home cook, use RX foods, use canned foods and use kibble. And I use Hill's, Purina and Royal Canin. They are companies that have earned my trust. I don't personally care what anyone feeds their pups ... and only get vocal when there is a suggestion that I am poisoning my pups. Such rhetoric is highly offensive to me.

When I posted about my experience with BB in the other thread, I was just posting an experience I had. The food might be great but I think their quality control might be lacking based on my experience. QC was something that I never took into consideration before this. I just thought I would post my experience with BB so that others might want to take it into consideration when choosing what to feed their yorkies.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Doodlebug

When I posted about my experience with BB in the other thread, I was just posting an experience I had. The food might be great but I think their quality control might be lacking based on my experience. QC was something that I never took into consideration before this. I just thought I would post my experience with BB so that others might want to take it into consideration when choosing what to feed their yorkies.

Exactly. Sharing experiences is always good. This is how we all learn. To start a thread that basically shuts a bunch of people down is not informative imho. When you say things like, "don't get upset, these are not my words" or "my pup fell off a bed and cannot walk but I don't want you to tell me to go to a vet" , you are already saying that what you are posting is controversial and you know it and don't care.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Oh, I totally agree which is why I don't start threads advising people what or what not to feed....even with a might or maybe in there. If we were to turn the tables here and start a thread about raw feeding and why you should not feed it I can just see the uproar now. I don't feed raw, but I don't tell anyone that they "maybe" should not unless they try to shove it down my throat as the only way to feed. What I will continue to do is to back reputable dog food companies especially those that I use for my pups. Giving reasons why I feed these foods is not the same thing as saying it is what everyone else should feed! Not sure why people are getting that from this thread.

This thread was not, imho, started to get input about different foods; but it has given opinions that were directly against what the OP had posted. That IS telling both sides. Seems that when we don't agree with an OP and we use valid sources, we are viewed as not being open to other ways of feeding. I personally use a variety of foods/methods so I DO know there are many ways to feed. I home cook, use RX foods, use canned foods and use kibble. And I use Hill's, Purina and Royal Canin. They are companies that have earned my trust. I don't personally care what anyone feeds their pups ... and only get vocal when there is a suggestion that I am poisoning my pups. Such rhetoric is highly offensive to me.

This is absolutely true. If we started a thread about the perils of raw food, we'd be stoned with words! I am not going to stop encouraging people to use valid sources of information. I'm not going to sit back while people keep bashing the only companies actually doing any research. The irony is that I am not even a 100% of the time dog food user! I use about 2% of kibble in an otherwise home cooked diet setup. Yet I feel strongly that people be correctly informed about this topic. I don't understand why this continually creates ridiculous drama. To those people who have a problem with my disagreement with Dog food advisor or lay people like this blogger, please know that I have a well reasoned and I believe correct basis to my view that they are not valid sources. Stop arguing back and exercising soft censorship tactics. My opinion is my opinion and you don't have to be defensive about your choices that are something else. Just let it be. No I don't agree with your choice of dog food. I don't even like dog food. But what I like is science, research, training and credentials. Those things are levels of comfort that I believe necessary to product development and quality control. I wish all dog food companies would step up in this area and I could alter my opinion. But I can't because they haven't. Be mad at them not us.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by Doodlebug

When I posted about my experience with BB in the other thread, I was just posting an experience I had. The food might be great but I think their quality control might be lacking based on my experience. QC was something that I never took into consideration before this. I just thought I would post my experience with BB so that others might want to take it into consideration when choosing what to feed their yorkies.

I agree. And the reasons given for rejecting the foods in the original post are either not valid (menadione, grapeseed oil, egg powder, gluten), or need to be taken in the context of quality control (unnamed sources of animal protein) or known allergies that your particular dog has. BTW, I used to love Blue Buffalo, but when I got a bag with NO lifesource bits in it whatsoever, I could see that their quality control left something to be desired. One bag without lifesource bits didn't hurt Bella, but my understanding is that the bags that contain too many lifesource bits can be toxic.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by pstinard

I agree. And the reasons given for rejecting the foods in the original post are either not valid (menadione, grapeseed oil, egg powder, gluten), or need to be taken in the context of quality control (unnamed sources of animal protein) or known allergies that your particular dog has. BTW, I used to love Blue Buffalo, but when I got a bag with NO lifesource bits in it whatsoever, I could see that their quality control left something to be desired. One bag without lifesource bits didn't hurt Bella, but my understanding is that the bags that contain too many lifesource bits can be toxic.

I saw the OP several days back and decided to pass on comment for all the reasons that you listed above. I'm not surprised that it did not receive a warm full of love reception. Everyone on YT has a right to an opinion without being told they are rude, opinionated or whatever the buzz word of the week might be. There are plenty of Yorkie Groups over on FB which allow NOTHING except God Bless and warm fuzzy love posts. That is not what YT is about and those same people will come here looking for good solid answers to their questions. We have never been held to that type of scrutiny and just do not get why this seems to always be an ongoing concern of some members.

[pstinard]

I did a little digging into the source of information for the dog food list at the beginning of this thread and posted my findings in another thread on Yorkietalk (http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...-few-more.html). I'll quote my findings here. I'm NOT here to bash the OP, I'm just providing information:

Originally Posted by pstinard

In another thread, an OP provided a list of dog foods that should be avoided, along with a list of ingredients that make those dog foods undesirable. A quick google search on the various ingredients (examples: menadione, grapeseed oil, powdered eggs, gluten, chicken byproduct meal) can easily bring up a list of scholarly and reputable sources that dispute the harmful effects of these ingredients. The OP on that thread provided the link to the website that carries the article (Healthy-K9.com | "Experts in keeping your dog living healthier & happier for longer"), and if you go to that website and read a few of the articles, it's easy to see right off that the bat that there is *something* wrong about the articles being posted. Example: the lead article is Dog Breeds I-Z | Healthy-K9.com . Many of the "breeds" listed aren't breeds at all, but rather "designer dogs" like Poogle, Poo-Shi, Poovanese, Pugapoo, etc. Another article (The Recipe for Terrier Tuna Egg and Cheese Supreme | Healthy-K9.com) links to a recipe for Terrier Tuna, Egg & Cheese Supreme, which besides containing the supposedly dangerous eggs, also contains a high fat content due to oil packed tuna, and bread crumbs which contain gluten. In other words, they're posting a recipe for a high fat treat that contains ingredients that they criticize elsewhere on the website. I would not trust the Healthy K-9 website, but I'm giving you reasons WHY I don't trust it. I'm not perfect, but I will always try to give reasons why I don't trust websites or "experts" from now on.

After doing a little digging, I found out that the Healthy-K9.com | "Experts in keeping your dog living healthier & happier for longer" website I mention above is affiliated with Andrew Lewis, the author of Dog Food Secrets and Dog Food Conspiracy. Here is a quote from the Dog Food Conspiracy website Increase the lifespan of your dog by up to 134%

Many world-famous Doctors of Veterinary Medicine and published Dog Care Experts universally agree any dog that eats commercial dog food is at a much higher risk of dying prematurely and by the time symptoms are noticeable, it's often too late to prevent an agonizing death except by lethal injection.

WARNING: If you continue to feed your dog commercial dog food, death-by-disease is practically guaranteed! You must find an alternative and it doesn't have to mean spending more money.

There are a lot of scare tactics here, and not a lot of evidence, so I'll just leave it at that. And yes, the website is selling a product.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by 107barney

Again the list is bogus and the author is a layperson with no training or credentials to assess dog food. Why do I have to be all nicey nice to state that!? You bashed foods, you're opinionated and IMO uninformed. I think I was very nice in stating that. For 10,000 posts I've been helping people on this site and resent your little directives to alter my personality to suit you! Its you that needs to be nicer IMO.

By the way, professional advice does cost money. But you said you didn't mind spending it. I guess you do after all.

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Oh, I totally agree which is why I don't start threads advising people what or what not to feed....even with a might or maybe in there. If we were to turn the tables here and start a thread about raw feeding and why you should not feed it I can just see the uproar now. I don't feed raw, but I don't tell anyone that they "maybe" should not unless they try to shove it down my throat as the only way to feed. What I will continue to do is to back reputable dog food companies especially those that I use for my pups. Giving reasons why I feed these foods is not the same thing as saying it is what everyone else should feed! Not sure why people are getting that from this thread.

This thread was not, imho, started to get input about different foods; but it has given opinions that were directly against what the OP had posted. That IS telling both sides. Seems that when we don't agree with an OP and we use valid sources, we are viewed as not being open to other ways of feeding. I personally use a variety of foods/methods so I DO know there are many ways to feed. I home cook, use RX foods, use canned foods and use kibble. And I use Hill's, Purina and Royal Canin. They are companies that have earned my trust. I don't personally care what anyone feeds their pups ... and only get vocal when there is a suggestion that I am poisoning my pups. Such rhetoric is highly offensive to me.

How many times do we hear people that choose to NOT feed commercial dog food, to instead home cook, or feed raw, start a discussion and in the discussion, usually within the first 5 sentences, are quick to not only push THEIR view that what THEY are doing is the best, the only compassionate, caring, guilt free method of providing for their dog, and that this HAS to be the very best way because a dentist (that has NO vet nutritional education other than what he has picked up along the way) says so and has a "list" for everyone to follow......and if you are feeding a commercial dog food, you are feeding "crap"....and when those of us that clearly "hate" our dogs and feed them 'crap', try to give OUR side of the debate, we are being "hateful, unreasonable, nasty, ill tempered, instigating trouble makers", with "NO CLASS", that deliberately send the proponents of everything but commercial food feeders from a list of "approved" dog food, fleeing, crying, wringing their hands in dispair, complaining of being attacked and emotionally abused, etc....

Once again, "WE" are the unreasonable ones that chase people away from this forum.....so no, there is actually no room for BOTH sides to be told. No opinions can be expressed or debated or explaned if it concerns a commerical dog food that has not been "approved" and is NOT on "The List" by the dentist or even considered by many of the other people that do not feed commercial dog food. People need to stop trying to make others feel they are uncaring because we choose a different way to feed our dogs, and then berrating us for trying to point out inaccurate, one sided, opinionated information that can mislead uninformed people that can not distinguish opinion from proven FACTS.....if ANY information is inaccurate, on EITHER side, and is pushed as fact and truth, THAT is doing harm!

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by pstinard

I did a little digging into the source of information for the dog food list at the beginning of this thread and posted my findings in another thread on Yorkietalk (http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...-few-more.html). I'll quote my findings here. I'm NOT here to bash the OP, I'm just providing information:



After doing a little digging, I found out that the Healthy-K9.com | "Experts in keeping your dog living healthier & happier for longer" website I mention above is affiliated with Andrew Lewis, the author of Dog Food Secrets and Dog Food Conspiracy. Here is a quote from the Dog Food Conspiracy website Increase the lifespan of your dog by up to 134%

Many world-famous Doctors of Veterinary Medicine and published Dog Care Experts universally agree any dog that eats commercial dog food is at a much higher risk of dying prematurely and by the time symptoms are noticeable, it's often too late to prevent an agonizing death except by lethal injection.

WARNING: If you continue to feed your dog commercial dog food, death-by-disease is practically guaranteed! You must find an alternative and it doesn't have to mean spending more money.

There are a lot of scare tactics here, and not a lot of evidence, so I'll just leave it at that. And yes, the website is selling a product.

Thank you for this!!! I had tried to do this very thing and could not get it done with my computer skills! Here again, people with agendas, following the money, pushing scare tactics on people that do not or can not tell the difference between fact and opinion!!! THIS is what angers me...not people that choose to feed their dog whatever they feel is best for them....but to insuinate that feeding a commercial dog food is a death sentence for your pet and you are incompetent to even consider that as an alternative....this is wrong and inaccurate, especially for a multitude of the companies listed on "The List" of approved food......"approved" by who???????....

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

Thank you for this!!! I had tried to do this very thing and could not get it done with my computer skills! Here again, people with agendas, following the money, pushing scare tactics on people that do not or can not tell the difference between fact and opinion!!! THIS is what angers me...not people that choose to feed their dog whatever they feel is best for them....but to insinuate that feeding a commercial dog food is a death sentence for your pet and you are incompetent to even consider that as an alternative....this is wrong and inaccurate, especially for a multitude of the companies listed on "The List" of approved food......"approved" by who???????....

I did a little more searching to see if I could find the credentials of Andrew Lewis, the person behind the Healthy-K9.com website and Dog Food Secrets, and could find NOTHING except what he states on one of his web pages. He seems to be a lay person who spoke with his vet when his dog Noble got sick, and his vet told him that Noble's dog food was killing him. No degree in veterinary nutrition, or any other veterinary science, as far as I can tell.

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by pstinard

I did a little more searching to see if I could find the credentials of Andrew Lewis, the person behind the Healthy-K9.com website and Dog Food Secrets, and could find NOTHING except what he states on one of his web pages. He seems to be a lay person who spoke with his vet when his dog Noble got sick, and his vet told him that Noble's dog food was killing him. No degree in veterinary nutrition, or any other veterinary science, as far as I can tell.

I guess maybe I was thinking there was going to be SOMETHING that could perhaps look like this person had SOME kind of qualifications (rather than HIS OPINION) and my failure to find absolutely NOTHING, I just automatically presumed was my own ineffective computer skills was why nothing was showing up......apparently, nothing was showing up because there was indeed NOTHING that could show up!

[oneofakind864]

I am not offering an opinion... I posted that "I" thought the list of potentially bad foods was interesting...and the reasoning behind the list worth looking into. Which I did. And I assumed since they were of interest to me.. they would be to others as well. It obviously has been. And some good things came of it...

To the poster that shared about Blue Buffalo...Many thanks. Quality control is something to be VERY concerned about and your experience brought up something that is indeed a problem.

To the poster who shared about the Hills Everyay formula- many thanks also.

To the poster who offered a link to a nutritionist who will answer questions free of charge... many thanks!

I never bashed Royal Canin ( Both my previous dog was fed it for years and my current puppy is still on it) or Hills ( which I fed my last baby when she needed the KD formula) and I am also interested in looking into the everyday formula for my current baby once she is no longer a puppy.

To the poster who inferred that a "new puppy owner" shouldn't be given respect until they had a 12 year old dog to show for it. THEN to share their experience. Well..if that was aimed at me then here you go.

My last Yorkie, who was eating Royal Canin, developed kidney problems that were caught when she was 7 ( not RC fault) and my vet and I battled it for 5 years ( with Hills K/D) until it claimed her 2 months ago. But 12 years apparently is an old age for a 3 pound dog-so I guess by many of the YT posters standards- I did pretty good especially given her health problems. But I still wanted more time. 50 years wouldn't have been enough because I loved her. But through working with my 2 vets and an animal nutritionist through that process I learned a LOT about kidney disease. Much of that came from stumbling on information that made me curious...and reading up on it...then asking my vet about it. I am an intelligent person with an inquiring mind and am always looking to expand my knowledge. My vet and I had several good conversations due to the fact that I was finding specific information about what my dog was dealing with and I had way more time to dig around then he did with a full time vet practice. I also spent lots of time with the Canine ophthalmologist as Chanel went blind due to retinal degeneration related to the kidney disease. Then cataracts, luxated lens... yeah lots of " Situations" and I know way too much about all the meds eye problems can require (Very expensive human drops too I might add)

I spend 1000's of dollars on her but the point I was trying to make with my comment about people who can't go to the vet is that there are many people who own dogs that love them and in many cases don't have the financial resources to be able to spend that kind of money. They come to YT seeking advice because of all the experienced dog owners on this site.. YOUR "non expert" but experienced opinions may be all these owners can afford. and it is better than nothing..which is what they end up getting if all any of you do is say " Go see a vet" when these people can't afford to do so. if you don't offer them something they will go elsewhere and end up on a quack site with terrible misinformation or at the very least worse than they could have received from you. And they probably STILL won't go see a vet.

Is it wrong to own a dog when you can't afford vet care?...In my opinion yes! But does it happen...ALL THE TIME! But then again... if they rescued a dog from being put down- maybe a poor but loving owner is better than no life at all. But that is a whole new thread.


And by the way the Cindy poster was blasted because the pet store owner Had a dog in the hunt" to make a profit on selling dog food. ... my " Vet" sells "Hills" and it is the only food he sells. Does that give him a dog in the hunt as one poster said? You also need a prescription for hills which you have to get from a "vet" so they are making the money on the food AND on the appt needed to obtain the prescription. Does that make it any less or more valid than the owner of the pet store who is special ordering a food for a client who is only making the profit on a bag of food? Does that mean vets' will offer unbiased opinions when they benefit from the sale of Hills two ways?? Thats opening a big bag of worms. BOTH the pet store owner and the vets want the same result...YOU TO HAVE A HEALTHY DOG. And they will BOTH profit from it. that is why they are both in the industry to catering to pet owners. The lack of a degree in veterinary science doesn't mean the store owner is any less interested in your dogs health as was inferred. And having one doesn't mean your vet is immune from wanting make a buck. Most vets do way better financially than most pet supply owners. Just saying....

Also need to say when Hills started making my girl sick( again not Hills fault- it was the kidney disease) My vet printed out recipes from the internet..and told me sites to look at to try to figure out a diet that met her kidney needs and that was tempting enough to get her to eat. I then had to run the diets I came up with by the nutritionist. But One of those sites was healthy k-9 as mentioned before. The author has a whole section specifically on health issues dogs normally have and several Kidney specific menus and treats. Other than adding a tiny piece of Tums for calcium because my little one wouldn't eat the " Ground egg shells" recommended in the kidney diets my vet provided, and adding amphogel and tinnic soluton to supplement..they both agreed the kidney recipes Andrew Lewis offered were a good option for Chanel. She did eat and lived another 3 years with kidney disease after the first 2 years of being on the hills KD.

So if the Barney poster was inferring that I am a new pup owner which having a 12 year old dog would give credibility to...been there done that. I have also fostered dogs. I may not know it all but I am not ignorant. I am also always open to new information that may make me revise my opinions. This article was simply thrown out there as "possibly interesting information" Not the Doggy Nutritional Bible. My comment was not aimed at you specifically. But to posters in general that tend to go for blood. ..OFTEN. It makes posters who only have the goal of trying to bring up information feel attacked.