Found out my pup has Patellar Luxation...what should I do? Breeder refuses to help! - YorkieTalk.com Forums

mcu · 01-03-2006, 01:55 PM

Hi Guys,

I found out my 5 months old yorkie has patellar luxation on both knees. The vet I brought it to says its grade 2 and that I should talk to my breeder about possibly getting my greeder to cover surgery or getting the pup replaced. We've grown attached to him and don't really want him replaced, but we travel a lot and are very active and constantly taking long walks, and worried that this might cause roblems for our pup in the future.

I called the breeder and first she said its not part of her guarantee, but I told her than the paper says that you offer 1 year warranty...so then she turned over to saying that this is common with many/most yorkies and goes away or does not get worse. I then told her than if she was not willing to help with this that I would take her to court for this or that the fact that she guaranteed a dog that was going to be 2.5 lbs and ours is already 2.5 at 5 months (I guess i'll have to wait a bit until he goes over). She said that it was my fault that he is already 2.5 lbs as she told me to always leave his food out and not feed him only twice a day as they go into starvation mode and gain more weight...anyway, not sure how true this is, but it sound like she is just beating around the bush.

My main concern is my pups health. We bought him while we were on vacation in Florida and live 1500 miles away. She told me to bring him by and let her vet examine him. I don't mind taking a long road trip, but I have a feeling that when I get there, she will just have this paid off vet and they will refuse to help me and that will just get me more pissed.

What do you guys suggest I do? I need all your advice please and I need it ASAP

Thanks

txshopper73 · 01-03-2006, 02:04 PM

Talk to your lawyer about this. If it is part of the contact and states there is a warranty over any congenial defects, then you have a case. This is a bad breeder to not stand behind her word and contract. However, NO breeder can guarantee size and she'd be a fool to inclose that on her contract. Get a lawyer and do it fast! Also, go to another vet in your town for a second opinion. Have both vets type out their findings. Do lots of researach on it where it states it's a genetic defect. Any and all correspondence needs to be done IN writing with return receipt certified mail. That way, you have proof that you've tried to make this right.

hasrv4fun · 01-03-2006, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txshopper73

Talk to your lawyer about this. If it is part of the contact and states there is a warranty over any congenial defects, then you have a case. This is a bad breeder to not stand behind her word and contract. However, NO breeder can guarantee size and she'd be a fool to inclose that on her contract. Get a lawyer and do it fast! Also, go to another vet in your town for a second opinion. Have both vets type out their findings. Do lots of researach on it where it states it's a genetic defect. Any and all correspondence needs to be done IN writing with return receipt certified mail. That way, you have proof that you've tried to make this right.

Yes, Yes, Yes- Please take Kims advice here and don't walk but run to a GOOD LAWYER and get everything documented and Vet checks in writing and don't even think about going 1500 miles down here to Florida, That is totally unnecessary. You needen't go to her Vet- that is like shooting yourself in the foot. Get your own vet opinions ( at least 2 ) and then let a lawyer contact her. I bet you get a different response from her then.

I don't know if it's allowed but if this is how this breeder handles her guarantees, can the name be posted on here so others are warned to stay away ? I am asking cause I am somewhat naive about the rules here on YT.

txshopper73 · 01-03-2006, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hasrv4fun

I don't know if it's allowed but if this is how this breeder handles her guarantees, can the name be posted on here so others are warned to stay away ? I am asking cause I am somewhat naive about the rules here on YT.

Yes, you can!

You can warn other people about this breeder and what she has done. I've done it to 2 breeders that I've dealt with...but it would take SO long to find it.

Lorraine · 01-03-2006, 02:28 PM

A 5 months old Yorkie at 2 1/2 lbs is still pretty small. I do hope you are leaving food and water down for him all the time especially as teething is going to be going on creating more stress. All my dogs and puppies have food and fresh water available to them all the time.
You aren't going to be going on long walks with such a tiny dog unless you are carrying him a good part of the way, he is too small for that amount of exercise.
As for patella luxations, you must be very careful and definitely seek more opinions. Many Vets do NOT know anything about them and love to say any small dog coming into the clinic has a knee problem when it isn't. You don't want surgery that isn't required. Observe him when he walks. If he isn't hiking up a hind leg every so many steps, he is likely fine.
In my opinion, I wouldn't be concerned that he is 2 1/2 lbs at 5 months. 2 1/2 lbs is too tiny for a full size Yorkie and you run the risk of a bunch of problems when they are that small. Yorkies are not meant to be that tiny and a lot of times are small due to health problems, genetic or congenital, including liver shunt, other liver/kidney problems, glandular problems, enzyme problems. If he is healthy and hasn't had hypoglycemia, be thankful.
I have two female pups that are undersized, one is 2 1/2 lbs one is 3 1/4 lbs at 8 months. I gave them free to friends of mine that have gotten a Yorkie from me in the last couple of years, live nearby so I can help them anytime they need it or take them back if necessary. They are aware of the needs and potential Vet bills that come with these little ones, although I have had Liver Shunt and blood testing done at my own expense and will be having them spayed at my own expense hopefully next month if my Vet feels they are ready. I do not breed for undersize but it happens in the best breeding program anyway.
Hope that helps a bit
Lorraine
Loriben Yorkies

mcu · 01-03-2006, 02:58 PM

His weight is the least of my concern, but I still feel cheated on that. All I want is that he is not 6 lbs or something. If he is 3.5-5lbs, thats ok with me.
We love him and he is the best pup we have ever been around. He is so calm that it almost worries me.... and he is so obediant. He does have heartworms, thats why I brought him in today and thats when she told me about the knees....she says heart and rest is perfectly fine. He is 85% potty trained on pads and would really would hate to give him back.

He always has water available to him except at night when he is in his crate. I fill his bowl with food twice daily.

Are there xrays you can take for pattelar luxation? This would be best proof of all.

mcu · 01-03-2006, 03:06 PM

Sorry, I think its tapeworms. Sorry I am new to the whole worm business. The vet gave us a white medication to give him once daily for a week

Lorraine · 01-03-2006, 03:15 PM

Your little guy sounds delightful and I doubt he will get to even 4 lbs if he is 2 1/2 at 5 months. I would guess somewhere between 3 and 4 lbs.
Unfortunately, it is the ligaments involved with a luxation so it doesn't show up on an xray. By examination the Vet determines if he/she can pop the knee or not and how tight that is to determine if there is a problem. It is not an exact thing and a Vet can actually hurt them if they don't know what they are doing.
The first YOrkie I ever got was a pet delightful little guy. The vet I took him to at the time said he had knee problems and would likely need surgery. He never did require surgery and got along just fine, never even missed a step with either rear leg. He could run play do everything just fine.
I do mobile pet grooming and many times I have various breeds of toy dogs and crosses on my grooming table. I can lift a hind leg and hear the knee popping all over the place but it is never a problem, just pops back in again. I would hazard a pretty safe guess a Vet would want to do surgery and say it was a problem. It wasn't and these dogs lived to grand old ages without ever needing it fixed.
If your dog hikes up either rear leg more and more from now to about a year of age, it could be a problem especially if he doesn't eventually put it down to use it in walking, Then you may require surgery on it or if he seems in pain with it. That however, could even occur a little older like 3 or 4 years of age.
Again, I would get a couple of opinions especially if you can find a Vet that is knowledgeable for sure about knees on these dogs.
Lorraine
Loriben Yorkies

mcu · 01-03-2006, 04:44 PM

I miscalulated...she is 4 months..not 5. So I guess from what I ready, he will most likely double his weight now....it really sux to be get screwed.

Her name is Julie Soutullo from Dixie Pups in Hallandale, FL and I just read other had issues with her. Its sad that Florida is still letting her screw people after so many complaints. I even spoke to one person, who sued her and won after her pup died of Giardia and breeder admitted to judge that she owes buyer a refund and since has not sent her a dime. Not sure what good suing will be if it will ust make me spend more money and get nothing back

troubletb · 01-03-2006, 05:01 PM

I'm sorry to hear about your puppy, But if you didn't bring him in for his knees, what made the vet check for luxating patella?? Was it just a regular exam?? I know my vet checked my dogs knees during their regular exams too! Is your puppy having a problem walking? Limping? skipping a step? This is a #2:
Grade 2 luxations occur when there is occasional spontaneous lameness
but the patella returns to normal positioning easily enough that the dog
usually isn't pained much by it. This is typically the dog that
occasionally carries a rear leg for two or three steps on occasion but
then puts it back down and goes as if nothing was wrong.
I would get a second opinion on the Luxating Patelle, and go from there.
Good Luck let us know what you find out.

It sounds as though you are very concerned about you dogs weight, but as you were told before no one can guarantee weight..

troubletb · 01-03-2006, 05:06 PM

I also found this on the web.. Look at the last line. If your puppy is sick this should help.
Veterinarians say that a one-pound dog would have died if someone had not hand-fed it for the last week.
The pup's new owner thought she bought a healthy pure- bred "Tea Cup Yorkie", but now believes it came from a Puppy Mill.
The puppy, Bella, is having a hard time breathing.
She can't eat on her own and needs to be in an incubator.
Krista Butler found Bella in the paper.
She says she bought her to save her life.
The seller, Julie Soutullo, owns a Hallandale Beach puppy store called "Dixie Pups."
The Department of Agriculture is investigating Soutullo after numerous complaints.
Soutullo says Bella was healthy when she was sold.
She told News 12 that she offered to take the dog back.
According to the Florida Puppy Lemon Law, Krista can give the dog back and get get a refund or a new dog.
She can also ask the seller to cover the vet bills up to the purchase price of the dog.

AngelMia · 01-03-2006, 07:03 PM

This lady is bad news! I live in Florida and I was one idiot to purchase a dog from her. She is full of lies , she tells you she is the breeder has so many dogs, shows you there pictures phoney inormation, she is a con artist. The male that I purchased from her was suppose to be an 13 week old pup as well as Akc registered. she knew I was looking for a small male , I wanted a male to be no more than 5 lbs 4 lbs I would be ok with, but when the registration papers came his bithdate was showing he was actually 8 weeks old when I purchased him, he was not akc, he was aca and she was not the breeder, she brings them in from Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela ect. I made a big stink about this whole issue and did tell her I already made contact with the local news to check her out, I was already attached with the little guy, but I just coudn't let her get away with this. She did give me a full refund plus vet expenses that I has incured on checking him out. There have been several complaints after my insident with her and God knows how many others before me, and they have had her on the news as a fraud. Her bussiness should be shut down she is a con artist and a fraud. Take it all the way, I know it's hard at this point to give up your baby, but your taking a chance on her screwing you like she has many others and she will continue. This lady is not a breeder she just runs a phoney business. Good luck!

Lorraine · 01-03-2006, 07:04 PM

For size approximation on a puppy, double the weight at 12 weeks, not 4 months. I am still sure if he is 2 1/2 lbs even at 4 months, he won't be much more than 3 -4 lbs at maturity.
Lorraine
Loriben Yorkies

Lorraine · 01-03-2006, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelMia

This lady is bad news! I live in Florida and I was one idiot to purchase a dog from her. She is full of lies , she tells you she is the breeder has so many dogs, shows you there pictures phoney inormation, she is a con artist. The male that I purchased from her was suppose to be an 13 week old pup as well as Akc registered. she knew I was looking for a small male , I wanted a male to be no more than 5 lbs 4 lbs I would be ok with, but when the registration papers came his bithdate was showing he was actually 8 weeks old when I purchased him, he was not akc, he was aca and she was not the breeder, she brings them in from Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela ect. I made a big stink about this whole issue and did tell her I already made contact with the local news to check her out, I was already attached with the little guy, but I just coudn't let her get away with this. She did give me a full refund plus vet expenses that I has incured on checking him out. There have been several complaints after my insident with her and God knows how many others before me, and they have had her on the news as a fraud. Her bussiness should be shut down she is a con artist and a fraud. Take it all the way, I know it's hard at this point to give up your baby, but your taking a chance on her screwing you like she has many others and she will continue. This lady is not a breeder she just runs a phoney business. Good luck!

After reading this post, this breeder is not a breeder but a broker. She has no idea what she getting, the kind of kennels they are coming from, and knows nothing about the parents or anything else of these puppies. This is the same scenario as a pet store selling puppies. She is making money from buying litters and selling the pups. The breeders she is dealing with know this is what is going on and providing her with litters of pups.
You might want to ask your Vet how old he or she thinks your pup is. It may not be the age you were told but impossible to prove really. Eruption of teeth can tell you a little bit but that can vary too in different lines etc.
Lorraine
Loriben Yorkies

AngelMia · 01-03-2006, 07:22 PM

With everything I went through with this lady and everything I found out about her after the fact you are totaly correct she is a broker with no good intentions what so ever. SHe goes as far as selling sick dogs and the poor pups end up dying that was one of the latest issues with someone else. This lady is nor trustworthy what so ever!

01-03-2006, 01:55 PM	#1
mcu Yorkie Talker Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: NY Posts: 19	Found out my pup has Patellar Luxation...what should I do? Breeder refuses to help! Hi Guys, I found out my 5 months old yorkie has patellar luxation on both knees. The vet I brought it to says its grade 2 and that I should talk to my breeder about possibly getting my greeder to cover surgery or getting the pup replaced. We've grown attached to him and don't really want him replaced, but we travel a lot and are very active and constantly taking long walks, and worried that this might cause roblems for our pup in the future. I called the breeder and first she said its not part of her guarantee, but I told her than the paper says that you offer 1 year warranty...so then she turned over to saying that this is common with many/most yorkies and goes away or does not get worse. I then told her than if she was not willing to help with this that I would take her to court for this or that the fact that she guaranteed a dog that was going to be 2.5 lbs and ours is already 2.5 at 5 months (I guess i'll have to wait a bit until he goes over). She said that it was my fault that he is already 2.5 lbs as she told me to always leave his food out and not feed him only twice a day as they go into starvation mode and gain more weight...anyway, not sure how true this is, but it sound like she is just beating around the bush. My main concern is my pups health. We bought him while we were on vacation in Florida and live 1500 miles away. She told me to bring him by and let her vet examine him. I don't mind taking a long road trip, but I have a feeling that when I get there, she will just have this paid off vet and they will refuse to help me and that will just get me more pissed. What do you guys suggest I do? I need all your advice please and I need it ASAP Thanks

01-03-2006, 02:28 PM	#5
Lorraine YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Abbotsford, BC Posts: 1,152	Lorraine A 5 months old Yorkie at 2 1/2 lbs is still pretty small. I do hope you are leaving food and water down for him all the time especially as teething is going to be going on creating more stress. All my dogs and puppies have food and fresh water available to them all the time. You aren't going to be going on long walks with such a tiny dog unless you are carrying him a good part of the way, he is too small for that amount of exercise. As for patella luxations, you must be very careful and definitely seek more opinions. Many Vets do NOT know anything about them and love to say any small dog coming into the clinic has a knee problem when it isn't. You don't want surgery that isn't required. Observe him when he walks. If he isn't hiking up a hind leg every so many steps, he is likely fine. In my opinion, I wouldn't be concerned that he is 2 1/2 lbs at 5 months. 2 1/2 lbs is too tiny for a full size Yorkie and you run the risk of a bunch of problems when they are that small. Yorkies are not meant to be that tiny and a lot of times are small due to health problems, genetic or congenital, including liver shunt, other liver/kidney problems, glandular problems, enzyme problems. If he is healthy and hasn't had hypoglycemia, be thankful. I have two female pups that are undersized, one is 2 1/2 lbs one is 3 1/4 lbs at 8 months. I gave them free to friends of mine that have gotten a Yorkie from me in the last couple of years, live nearby so I can help them anytime they need it or take them back if necessary. They are aware of the needs and potential Vet bills that come with these little ones, although I have had Liver Shunt and blood testing done at my own expense and will be having them spayed at my own expense hopefully next month if my Vet feels they are ready. I do not breed for undersize but it happens in the best breeding program anyway. Hope that helps a bit Lorraine Loriben Yorkies

01-03-2006, 03:15 PM	#8
Lorraine YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Abbotsford, BC Posts: 1,152	Lorraine Your little guy sounds delightful and I doubt he will get to even 4 lbs if he is 2 1/2 at 5 months. I would guess somewhere between 3 and 4 lbs. Unfortunately, it is the ligaments involved with a luxation so it doesn't show up on an xray. By examination the Vet determines if he/she can pop the knee or not and how tight that is to determine if there is a problem. It is not an exact thing and a Vet can actually hurt them if they don't know what they are doing. The first YOrkie I ever got was a pet delightful little guy. The vet I took him to at the time said he had knee problems and would likely need surgery. He never did require surgery and got along just fine, never even missed a step with either rear leg. He could run play do everything just fine. I do mobile pet grooming and many times I have various breeds of toy dogs and crosses on my grooming table. I can lift a hind leg and hear the knee popping all over the place but it is never a problem, just pops back in again. I would hazard a pretty safe guess a Vet would want to do surgery and say it was a problem. It wasn't and these dogs lived to grand old ages without ever needing it fixed. If your dog hikes up either rear leg more and more from now to about a year of age, it could be a problem especially if he doesn't eventually put it down to use it in walking, Then you may require surgery on it or if he seems in pain with it. That however, could even occur a little older like 3 or 4 years of age. Again, I would get a couple of opinions especially if you can find a Vet that is knowledgeable for sure about knees on these dogs. Lorraine Loriben Yorkies

01-03-2006, 05:01 PM	#10
troubletb Love my Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Port Richey, Florida Posts: 2,244	I'm sorry to hear about your puppy, But if you didn't bring him in for his knees, what made the vet check for luxating patella?? Was it just a regular exam?? I know my vet checked my dogs knees during their regular exams too! Is your puppy having a problem walking? Limping? skipping a step? This is a #2: Grade 2 luxations occur when there is occasional spontaneous lameness but the patella returns to normal positioning easily enough that the dog usually isn't pained much by it. This is typically the dog that occasionally carries a rear leg for two or three steps on occasion but then puts it back down and goes as if nothing was wrong. I would get a second opinion on the Luxating Patelle, and go from there. Good Luck let us know what you find out. It sounds as though you are very concerned about you dogs weight, but as you were told before no one can guarantee weight.. __________________ Karen~ Bell, Lilly and Peter's Mom http://www.freewebs.com/floridayorkies/

01-03-2006, 05:06 PM	#11
troubletb Love my Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Port Richey, Florida Posts: 2,244	I also found this on the web.. Look at the last line. If your puppy is sick this should help. Veterinarians say that a one-pound dog would have died if someone had not hand-fed it for the last week. The pup's new owner thought she bought a healthy pure- bred "Tea Cup Yorkie", but now believes it came from a Puppy Mill. The puppy, Bella, is having a hard time breathing. She can't eat on her own and needs to be in an incubator. Krista Butler found Bella in the paper. She says she bought her to save her life. The seller, Julie Soutullo, owns a Hallandale Beach puppy store called "Dixie Pups." The Department of Agriculture is investigating Soutullo after numerous complaints. Soutullo says Bella was healthy when she was sold. She told News 12 that she offered to take the dog back. According to the Florida Puppy Lemon Law, Krista can give the dog back and get get a refund or a new dog. She can also ask the seller to cover the vet bills up to the purchase price of the dog. __________________ Karen~ Bell, Lilly and Peter's Mom http://www.freewebs.com/floridayorkies/

01-03-2006, 02:04 PM	#2
txshopper73 Donating YT 14K Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Victoria, Texas Posts: 14,178 Blog Entries: 1	Talk to your lawyer about this. If it is part of the contact and states there is a warranty over any congenial defects, then you have a case. This is a bad breeder to not stand behind her word and contract. However, NO breeder can guarantee size and she'd be a fool to inclose that on her contract. Get a lawyer and do it fast! Also, go to another vet in your town for a second opinion. Have both vets type out their findings. Do lots of researach on it where it states it's a genetic defect. Any and all correspondence needs to be done IN writing with return receipt certified mail. That way, you have proof that you've tried to make this right. __________________ As always...JMO (Just My Opinion) Kimberley Gracie, London and Dallas

01-03-2006, 02:58 PM	#6
mcu Yorkie Talker Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: NY Posts: 19	His weight is the least of my concern, but I still feel cheated on that. All I want is that he is not 6 lbs or something. If he is 3.5-5lbs, thats ok with me. We love him and he is the best pup we have ever been around. He is so calm that it almost worries me.... and he is so obediant. He does have heartworms, thats why I brought him in today and thats when she told me about the knees....she says heart and rest is perfectly fine. He is 85% potty trained on pads and would really would hate to give him back. He always has water available to him except at night when he is in his crate. I fill his bowl with food twice daily. Are there xrays you can take for pattelar luxation? This would be best proof of all.

01-03-2006, 03:06 PM	#7
mcu Yorkie Talker Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: NY Posts: 19	Sorry, I think its tapeworms. Sorry I am new to the whole worm business. The vet gave us a white medication to give him once daily for a week

01-03-2006, 04:44 PM	#9
mcu Yorkie Talker Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: NY Posts: 19	I miscalulated...she is 4 months..not 5. So I guess from what I ready, he will most likely double his weight now....it really sux to be get screwed. Her name is Julie Soutullo from Dixie Pups in Hallandale, FL and I just read other had issues with her. Its sad that Florida is still letting her screw people after so many complaints. I even spoke to one person, who sued her and won after her pup died of Giardia and breeder admitted to judge that she owes buyer a refund and since has not sent her a dime. Not sure what good suing will be if it will ust make me spend more money and get nothing back

01-03-2006, 07:03 PM	#12
AngelMia Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl. Posts: 206	This lady is bad news! I live in Florida and I was one idiot to purchase a dog from her. She is full of lies , she tells you she is the breeder has so many dogs, shows you there pictures phoney inormation, she is a con artist. The male that I purchased from her was suppose to be an 13 week old pup as well as Akc registered. she knew I was looking for a small male , I wanted a male to be no more than 5 lbs 4 lbs I would be ok with, but when the registration papers came his bithdate was showing he was actually 8 weeks old when I purchased him, he was not akc, he was aca and she was not the breeder, she brings them in from Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela ect. I made a big stink about this whole issue and did tell her I already made contact with the local news to check her out, I was already attached with the little guy, but I just coudn't let her get away with this. She did give me a full refund plus vet expenses that I has incured on checking him out. There have been several complaints after my insident with her and God knows how many others before me, and they have had her on the news as a fraud. Her bussiness should be shut down she is a con artist and a fraud. Take it all the way, I know it's hard at this point to give up your baby, but your taking a chance on her screwing you like she has many others and she will continue. This lady is not a breeder she just runs a phoney business. Good luck!

01-03-2006, 07:04 PM	#13
Lorraine YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Abbotsford, BC Posts: 1,152	Lorraine For size approximation on a puppy, double the weight at 12 weeks, not 4 months. I am still sure if he is 2 1/2 lbs even at 4 months, he won't be much more than 3 -4 lbs at maturity. Lorraine Loriben Yorkies

01-03-2006, 07:22 PM	#15
AngelMia Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl. Posts: 206	With everything I went through with this lady and everything I found out about her after the fact you are totaly correct she is a broker with no good intentions what so ever. SHe goes as far as selling sick dogs and the poor pups end up dying that was one of the latest issues with someone else. This lady is nor trustworthy what so ever!