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Old 09-07-2011, 01:04 AM   #1
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Default My Experience Switching From Royal Canin to Artemis

I thought I'd share my experience with switching between these brands. I'm still on the hunt for the healthiest option possible, and will soon be trying The Honest Kitchen, as I've heard great things.

For the switch, I began by adding a reasonable amount of Artemis 'Fresh Mix Small Breed Adult Dog Food' to Yorkshire Terrier 28 from RC. I will say that I've fed RC for years, and my furchild's coat has been shiny and silky and her energy levels through the roof. It wasn't until I read that the formula wasn't the best on this forum that I decided to look into other options. I had zero problems with Royal Canin.

What I've noticed: 1. Her stool is softer, but still healthy looking. On Royal Canin her stool was very dark, on Artemis, it's a lighter brown. 2. Her appetite seems to have been stimulated since making the switch- she's eating more frequently. 3. The kibble size (with Artemis) is far more suitable for a Yorkie under 5lbs. It's about half the size of Royal Canin's- so this may be part of the reason that she's eating more frequently. 4. Her coat doesn't seem to be as shiny as it was while on Royal Canin. I'm going to combat this by adding some fish oil to her kibble, 'Grizzly Salmon Oil' has great reviews so I'm going to try it. 5. Her energy levels seem to be the same, I haven't noticed a change. She's a rather happy little girl.

I have mixed feelings. I wonder how complete a diet of dry kibble can actually be for a dog? Proponents of raw feeding seem to have gorgeous, healthy dogs with amazingly clean teeth. Critics say it's harmful. The preservatives in dry kibble have to be causing cancer, as the instance of cancer in dogs has increased ten fold since dry kibble feeding became the norm. It makes sense, the same goes for people. We're a h*ll of a lot less healthy now than we were even 50 years ago.

Anyway, my two cents. Let me know if anyone's found a great brand.
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Old 09-07-2011, 04:30 AM   #2
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I have mixed feelings. I wonder how complete a diet of dry kibble can actually be for a dog? Proponents of raw feeding seem to have gorgeous, healthy dogs with amazingly clean teeth. Critics say it's harmful. The preservatives in dry kibble have to be causing cancer, as the instance of cancer in dogs has increased ten fold since dry kibble feeding became the norm. It makes sense, the same goes for people. We're a h*ll of a lot less healthy now than we were even 50 years ago.
Keep in mind that the instance of dogs seeing the inside of a vet's office increased right along with kibble eating. We have more knowledge of cancer cases. There are so many other environmental factors that I don't think we can isolate kibble as the leading cause of canine cancer.
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Old 09-07-2011, 05:21 AM   #3
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You're right. All of those variables play into it. However, it makes sense that the crap they put in most dry kibbles most likely leads to health complications that would otherwise not exist. I can't seem to nail down a gruly organic, Non GMO kibble lol If you know of one please fill me in
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Old 09-07-2011, 05:58 AM   #4
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You're right. All of those variables play into it. However, it makes sense that the crap they put in most dry kibbles most likely leads to health complications that would otherwise not exist. I can't seem to nail down a gruly organic, Non GMO kibble lol If you know of one please fill me in
I agree that there are a lot of things I don't like about processed foods for dogs or humans. However, I am not comfortable trying to homecook for my pups because dogs require carefully balanced diets. It is very easy to make a dog sick with unbalanced nutrients.

Concerning GMOs in general, all food has been genetically engineered in one way or another. Farmers have been engineering food in the field since the beginning of agriculture. There is nothing "natural" about the whole foods we have today. I'm much more concerned about processing and additives and preservatives.
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Old 09-07-2011, 06:53 AM   #5
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I feed high end kibble with raw and find it works.
RC has not been high quality for years now.
Suggest that you read whole dog journal for good dog food suggestions of all type that are on the market. They do a yearly rating of all.

Sorry this sounds stiff on I pad. It not easy to type on so keeping it short.

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Old 09-07-2011, 08:41 AM   #6
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I love Royal Canin - you're right about the shiny coat, and other benefits of this food. I've been a long time home cooker - all my own organic and high quality ingredients. My dogs eat better than I do most of the time. For me to feed kibble represents a huge philosophical departure and I got a recommendation from a board certified vet nutritionist and she recommended RC small breed for Teddy.
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Old 09-07-2011, 09:39 AM   #7
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We're all over the boat as far as feeding.

Mainly, we feed Honest Kitchen and supplement it with raw meaty bones (for clean teeth). However, we also feed some kibble, the Deli Fresh pet stuff, and dehydrated raw foods (on rotation). It doesn't upset my girls tummies to change foods, so we do.

I think that the kibbles can be nutritionally complete. They are just not the quality I'd like to see if they we're my dog's only food.
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Old 09-07-2011, 09:42 AM   #8
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There’s an old saying, “A little knowledge is a dangerous thing!” This sure applies to the advice you get on nutrition over the internet! People read a few sites and parrot what they’ve read, and after you read it enough you think it’s the truth, or at least has some merit to it. Not so, Even the statement about preservatives cause cancer is loaded. Do they really? Or is this just a lot of hype? By the way, saying that dogs get more cancer since kibble was invented is misleading, another thing that happened is that people are spaying and neutering their dogs, and dogs are living to old age. I know so many examples of people whose dogs died before they were 5 because they ran away and got hit by a car. Unneutered dogs tend to run away. Cancer is as old as humans are, it has been found in Aztec mummies, and it's not something new that causes it. If you live long enough, something is going to get you, heart disease, or cancer; I don't care how well you take care of yourself. If you take care of yourself, maybe you can last a little longer, or at least be healthy in the meantime.

I switched from RC because of stuff I read here about it, people acted like it was a mediocre food, just because it wasn’t 5 stars rated on some web sites. These people have no training in nutrition though, they are supposedly unbiased regular people choosing what they think is the best food. The food I switched to, gave Joey terrible eye drainage, and I’m really ticked off about switching. I switched back to RC, and decided to ignore all those who slammed it. Joey’s doing really well on it, no tummy upsets, vomiting, diarrhea, or gas, no eye drainage, low formation of tartar, and his coat is unbelievable. Royal Canine has been working with the Yorkshire Terrier Club of American breeders and they really are dedicated to making a formula that Yorkies thrive on. Lots of people here have said, “If it aint broke, don’t fix it”, well this now is one of my favorite quotes.”
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Old 09-07-2011, 11:23 AM   #9
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There’s an old saying, “A little knowledge is a dangerous thing!” This sure applies to the advice you get on nutrition over the internet! People read a few sites and parrot what they’ve read, and after you read it enough you think it’s the truth, or at least has some merit to it. Not so, Even the statement about preservatives cause cancer is loaded. Do they really? Or is this just a lot of hype? By the way, saying that dogs get more cancer since kibble was invented is misleading, another thing that happened is that people are spaying and neutering their dogs, and dogs are living to old age. I know so many examples of people whose dogs died before they were 5 because they ran away and got hit by a car. Unneutered dogs tend to run away. Cancer is as old as humans are, it has been found in Aztec mummies, and it's not something new that causes it. If you live long enough, something is going to get you, heart disease, or cancer; I don't care how well you take care of yourself. If you take care of yourself, maybe you can last a little longer, or at least be healthy in the meantime.

I switched from RC because of stuff I read here about it, people acted like it was a mediocre food, just because it wasn’t 5 stars rated on some web sites. These people have no training in nutrition though, they are supposedly unbiased regular people choosing what they think is the best food. The food I switched to, gave Joey terrible eye drainage, and I’m really ticked off about switching. I switched back to RC, and decided to ignore all those who slammed it. Joey’s doing really well on it, no tummy upsets, vomiting, diarrhea, or gas, no eye drainage, low formation of tartar, and his coat is unbelievable. Royal Canine has been working with the Yorkshire Terrier Club of American breeders and they really are dedicated to making a formula that Yorkies thrive on. Lots of people here have said, “If it aint broke, don’t fix it”, well this now is one of my favorite quotes.”


I for one am very thankful for RC it has been a LIFESAVER for Taycie. I also fell into the bandwagon that if I wasn't feeding a natural and holistic diet then I was doing more harm then good when it comes to food. Never was I going to feed something other then a 4 or 5 star rated food. But, sometimes, in life you need to keep an open mind. I have had to learn this.

After a year of trying many holistic brands, one thing or another something always fell short. In the beginning it was finding something her stomach could handle, then I would get that issue under control, but battle tear stains, very runny eyes, itchy skin......

I finally decided enough was enough and her quality of life was the most important thing. After working with my vet we decided to put Taycie on RX Royal Canin Rabbit and Potato, 6 weeks ago.

Within a week, the redness in her ears disapeared. She quit scratching herself and her eyes quit running.
Now.. I am proud to say after a YEAR of tear stains, they are gone. My friend recently commented on her face and said, What did you do? How did you get rid of all the red by her eyes??? I said, It's the food!!!

Her coat also looks incredible. It's never been this shiny. I do keep her short, however, I can tell the difference.

I am very happy with it. And If I decide to switch it will be with a consultation with a BCVN and my vet. I will say that bottom line every dog is different and every dog thrives on something that some would do poorly on, so, I am with you Nancy, If it ain't broke don't fix it!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-07-2011, 12:01 PM   #10
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I for one am very thankful for RC it has been a LIFESAVER for Taycie. I also fell into the bandwagon that if I wasn't feeding a natural and holistic diet then I was doing more harm then good when it comes to food. Never was I going to feed something other then a 4 or 5 star rated food. But, sometimes, in life you need to keep an open mind. I have had to learn this.

After a year of trying many holistic brands, one thing or another something always fell short. In the beginning it was finding something her stomach could handle, then I would get that issue under control, but battle tear stains, very runny eyes, itchy skin......

I finally decided enough was enough and her quality of life was the most important thing. After working with my vet we decided to put Taycie on RX Royal Canin Rabbit and Potato, 6 weeks ago.

Within a week, the redness in her ears disapeared. She quit scratching herself and her eyes quit running.
Now.. I am proud to say after a YEAR of tear stains, they are gone. My friend recently commented on her face and said, What did you do? How did you get rid of all the red by her eyes??? I said, It's the food!!!

Her coat also looks incredible. It's never been this shiny. I do keep her short, however, I can tell the difference.

I am very happy with it. And If I decide to switch it will be with a consultation with a BCVN and my vet. I will say that bottom line every dog is different and every dog thrives on something that some would do poorly on, so, I am with you Nancy, If it ain't broke don't fix it!!!!!!!!!!!
At one time holistic meant something good, and wasn’t just an advertising ploy. Doctors treated the person as a “whole” not just a variety of symptoms. I really believe in this philosophy because just treating a symptom, can cause you to mask the underlying problem. However, in recent years “holistic” tends to mean just about anything, there is no formal definition, but it sounds good to most people, so advertisers throw the word around. Any person, can call themselves a “holistic practitioner”, you need absolutely no credentials. Anyway, holistic just means natural nowadays, but natural, is not as safe or healthy.

You mention the tear stains, and while they are common in puppies that are teething, I don't really think they should be accepted that readily in adult dogs, you got to wonder what else is going on there, but you're right, they can take a while to get rid of. I tried the other food twice, just to be sure it was the food causing the eye problems and with the second experiment, it really took a long time to completely eliminate the tearing. Joey's tear free now and hopefully will stay that way, and we have big time environmental allergies here with our dry air, so I know food makes a difference. Anyway, so glad you found something that works for Taycie, I think we can offer people suggestions on what works for our dogs, but telling someone else their brand is bad without any nutritional training doesn’t cut it for me.
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Old 09-07-2011, 12:24 PM   #11
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At one time holistic meant something good, and wasn’t just an advertising ploy. Doctors treated the person as a “whole” not just a variety of symptoms. I really believe in this philosophy because just treating a symptom, can cause you to mask the underlying problem. However, in recent years “holistic” tends to mean just about anything, there is no formal definition, but it sounds good to most people, so advertisers throw the word around. Any person, can call themselves a “holistic practitioner”, you need absolutely no credentials. Anyway, holistic just means natural nowadays, but natural, is not as safe or healthy.

You mention the tear stains, and while they are common in puppies that are teething, I don't really think they should be accepted that readily in adult dogs, you got to wonder what else is going on there, but you're right, they can take a while to get rid of. I tried the other food twice, just to be sure it was the food causing the eye problems and with the second experiment, it really took a long time to completely eliminate the tearing. Joey's tear free now and hopefully will stay that way, and we have big time environmental allergies here with our dry air, so I know food makes a difference. Anyway, so glad you found something that works for Taycie, I think we can offer people suggestions on what works for our dogs, but telling someone else their brand is bad without any nutritional training doesn’t cut it for me.
I agree. I can "educate" myself just like everyone else does through the good old internet and maybe check out a book at the library. But, in the end, I don't know really know anything about nutrition then the next person that posts

As far as tearing goes it really got bad this summer. I do think she does have some enviromental allergies, but now coming full circle and looking back at it, I think our food was a main contributer.

We can still have a high pollen count and her tearing can't even compare to what it was. Not even close. And my biggest eye opener was, if she tears, she does not stain. I just wipe her face and its nice and clean again
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Old 09-07-2011, 12:39 PM   #12
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I agree. I can "educate" myself just like everyone else does through the good old internet and maybe check out a book at the library. But, in the end, I don't know really know anything about nutrition then the next person that posts

As far as tearing goes it really got bad this summer. I do think she does have some enviromental allergies, but now coming full circle and looking back at it, I think our food was a main contributer.

We can still have a high pollen count and her tearing can't even compare to what it was. Not even close. And my biggest eye opener was, if she tears, she does not stain. I just wipe her face and its nice and clean again
I agree too! With Blue Wilderness, Joey had thick brown goopy discharge, not a mild tearing, as soon as I eliminated the BW, his eye discharge was reduced remarkably, but not totally eliminated. At first, I didn’t even think of the food, I just didn’t know that a food could cause this. You’re right, it caused major staining, and when Joey’s breeder saw it asked what caused it, I was so embarrassed to say, I changed his food, she totally doesn’t believe you should experiment, once you found something that’s working. While humans may love variety, it really isn’t that good for Yorkies whose digestive system is considered one of their downfalls.
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Old 09-07-2011, 07:53 PM   #13
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I agree too! With Blue Wilderness, Joey had thick brown goopy discharge, not a mild tearing, as soon as I eliminated the BW, his eye discharge was reduced remarkably, but not totally eliminated. At first, I didn’t even think of the food, I just didn’t know that a food could cause this. You’re right, it caused major staining, and when Joey’s breeder saw it asked what caused it, I was so embarrassed to say, I changed his food, she totally doesn’t believe you should experiment, once you found something that’s working. While humans may love variety, it really isn’t that good for Yorkies whose digestive system is considered one of their downfalls.

I honestly was at the point that maybe her tearing was just because of "genetics." She actually didn't tear too bad until she was about 6 months old. Teething, obviously played into it at that point but the staining wasn't as bad as it has been since this summer.

In July, I had to take her to E.R. vet over the 4th of July weekend and she was diagnosed with Gastroenteritis. Her tearing was the worst at that point. During recovery, the vet told me to feed boiled chicken and rice. During that week, her tearing basically stopped. Her ears stopped getting bright red and she also stopped scratching. I went from giving Benedryl daily to nothing.

It then dawned on me... hmmmmmm I really wonder if she actually has issues with her food. My only battle was at the time I was feeding her Natural Balance Sweet Potato and Venison. I thought how could this be on a LID diet??

After her E.R. Episode, I slowly started to transition her back on her NB. For about 5 days things were ok then the old symptoms came back.. almost as quickly as they left.

LONG story short and working with my vet...that is when I started to have a open mind. Bottom line I knew if her eyes could clear up.. "genetics" for Taycie at this point was not our answer.

So RC for us it is. But like I always say, May not work for some, but it works for us!
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Old 09-08-2011, 05:16 AM   #14
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I tried RC for awhile. I tried to get away from it because of the cost mainly. It was ridiculously priced. I feed Taste of the Wild. My boys are healthy, happy, active and they are 6 years old and my vet said I could go another year maybe before they need a dental. (not the usual). They have been on TOTW for years now and I am extremely happy with it. My mom switched to it with her dogs and they love it also and are doing very well on it as well. No more spells of diarrhea or not eating at her house anymore. I buy a 15lb bag for (price just went up again) $29, but it lasts 2 months just about and they have 4 different flavors that I can switch around for variety so they don't get bored.
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Old 09-08-2011, 01:43 PM   #15
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I'll let you form your own opinion about it...but check out www.halopets.com

I too use Royal Canin, but am thinking about this halo food because it's made of the parts of meat that are human consumable, not all the left over hooves, hair and skin along with some tiny bites of meat that are put together to form "meal".
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