Allergies - Atopica, Prednisone, etc

[lillymae]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

No disrespect, but I hope no one on here believes that statement. That is just not possible. Staph needs to be treated with medicine. One spot on a dog and a topical antibacterial will work....more than a couple will require antibiotics.

Apparently they have scientific proof because they are teaching it at WSU vet school. Most vets in my area are or have taken the course.Not sure what vet schools are in your area but if they have not started this yet they will probably start soon. I can't swear to it but I heard somewhere they first offered this course in Oregon. My DH said they are teaching it in Colorado as well. I have used the tea on a dog for staph and it cleared it up, so unless the Lab was wrong and it was something else, it does work. I can only go by what my vet says the Lab results were.Hmmm my lap top has decided to change font size on me again, I think there's a little gremlin in here somewhere I need to figure out I was gonna say how to let him out but it appears that he's escaped on his own Lol

[ladyjane]

Well gee, I guess my vet is behind the times because she does not give tea bags out for staph infections.

[lillymae]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Well gee, I guess my vet is behind the times because she does not give tea bags out for staph infections.

Not all vet schools have offered the course yet . My vet does not hand out tea bags. There is really no need for the sarcasm when someone is only offering help and info. It is your choice to research and educate yourself. I would not say that your vet is behind the times, maybe she has not had the opportunity or the time for the course yet. All I'm saying is that I did not make up what I have posted here and would Never do something without consulting with my vet first. You can't that say it is not possible to clear staph with tea unless you have personally tried it, have you ? I have done it and my vet has lab results to prove it. I will not argue or insult about something that you have not educated yourself about as it would be pointless.
Remember this , not anyone knows everything. I'm betting you know more today then you did 10 yrs ago, rite ? We all know the medical profession has come a long way in the past 10 yrs, and are learning more every day as well. I think they call it progress.

[ladyjane]

Educate myself? You know nothing of my background and/or education.
You expect me to believe that some vet schools are offering a course that makes claims that infections are cured with tea bags? Sorry...I need more than your word to prove that.
Look...I am not going to argue with you.
The claim is absurd in my opinion and I am only addressing it because many people believe everything they read.
You have the opinion that tea bags cure staph and I have the opposite opinion. If you call it sarcasm, so be it.
I am trying to prevent what I believe could be harmful to someone's pup.
Your vet may have lab results to prove your pup had a staph infection...he cannot prove that tea bags cured it.
I do believe that you believe this to be true. That still does not make it so.

[lillymae]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Educate myself? You know nothing of my background and/or education.
You expect me to believe that some vet schools are offering a course that makes claims that infections are cured with tea bags? Sorry...I need more than your word to prove that.
Look...I am not going to argue with you.
The claim is absurd in my opinion and I am only addressing it because many people believe everything they read.
You have the opinion that tea bags cure staph and I have the opposite opinion. If you call it sarcasm, so be it.
I am trying to prevent what I believe could be harmful to someone's pup.
Your vet may have lab results to prove your pup had a staph infection...he cannot prove that tea bags cured it.
I do believe that you believe this to be true. That still does not make it so.

You don't have to take my word for anything. As I said , Educate yourself on the matter. I do not believe it to be so, I know for a fact it is so. It's not a claim it is fact. I am sure if you call information they can give you the # for WSU, call them and ask them yourself about the course. It would be pointless for me to do it for you because I already know the answer. Or maybe they are lying to people and my vet took an imaginary course and wasted his hard earned money and time for nothing. It must be a conspiracy Because you believe it Not to be true, does not make it so. By the way, where do you think the ingredients comes from that's in every single prescription on the planet ? Do you think they pull it out of thin air ? It comes from something in Nature. Yes it does, everything has a starting point. So before you go calling people a liar, Get your Facts and educate yourself on the topic.

[ladyjane]

I did not call you a liar. You believe something that I believe is absurd is all I am saying. That school may have a course on holistic practices; but I hardly believe that they are advising veterinary students in any vet school to drop their prescription pads in lieu of tea bags when they get a dog in with a staph infection.
IF it were such a successful treatment, the whole world would be buzzing about it!
Now I am finished with this discussion. At least when people read the thread they will have two different ways of dealing with their dog's skin infections: either go to a vet or just stay home and apply tea bags

[107barney]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I did not call you a liar. You believe something that I believe is absurd is all I am saying. That school may have a course on holistic practices; but I hardly believe that they are advising veterinary students in any vet school to drop their prescription pads in lieu of tea bags when they get a dog in with a staph infection.
IF it were such a successful treatment, the whole world would be buzzing about it!
Now I am finished with this discussion. At least when people read the thread they will have two different ways of dealing with their dog's skin infections: either go to a vet or just stay home and apply tea bags

It is true that some vets are becoming interested in holistic practices. My vet suggested cranberry juice to wash down Teddy's medicine when he had a UTI and you know what? Teddy loved that cranberry juice. Do I think the cranberry juice did something? Yep, it kept him interested in drinking more fluids than his plain old water. I could have used any juice on the planet and he would have gobbled it up because you know what? Teddy likes juice. My vet never claimed that the cranberry juice would do anything for the UTI - she gave him Clavamox which did cure him. Now Daisy also had a UTI but she refuses to drink cranberry juice and won't eat food that has cranberry juice mixed in. So thankfully she too had clavamox so that we could cure her and not rely on cranberry juice otherwise she might still be sick since there was no way that dog would drink it.

The same is true for milk thistle. This is a product I use for my dog Daisy. There have been studies that show that a compound in milk thistle known as silymarin can assist with liver regneration and it is very useful in things such as hepatotoxicity or certain liver diseases. This is when my traditional vets use holistic ideas - when there is proof to back it up.

I'm going to ask my specialists because Barney gets staph infections every summer. If I could douse him in tea, I'll gladly do it -- once I read the veterinary journal with my own eyes and ask difficult follow up questions of my vets. That is the only way I can feel good about the care I give my dogs. I plan to call over to the dermatologist's office today. The last time I called for staph issues, no one suggested chamomile tea. If someone would know, it would be the board certified dermatologist. I'll make myself a cup of chamomile tea and then I'll make the call.

I think the key to any holistic practice is to keep real medicine as your first and foremost option. Real medicine to me is proof that it is, not someone saying it is. I think anyone believing otherwise is really putting their dogs at a point of major disadvantage and possible harm.

[Ellie May]

Yes, a lot of drugs come from natural extracts. It is possible to use some of these natural remedies to treat diseases. A few problems come with that though.

First, self-diagnosis is usually involved followed by self-treatment. I don't have a license to practice medicine, so I'm not going to read an article about a random plant extract and assume it's ok to give it to my dog.

Then there is the issue of side effects not being reported. It's bad enough that the effects of drugs aren't reported by some vets. There is no system of reporting for holistic medicine, so there is very little accountability.

And I'd hate to see an owner start a new treatment without realizing that it is countraindicated when taking into consideration another disease the pet has or a drug that they are already on. For instance, chamomile can interact with cyclosporine.

Also, besides side effects not needing to be reported, there are no solid records for success of treatment. There aren't studies to back these things up, so then it is subjective opinion.

It's certainly safer if the vet diagnoses a problem and suggests this way of treatment. And for those who want their pets to only have all natural remedies, that's fine. But remember if it was really as good as it sounds, more vets would do it. Ellie's vet has no problem with supplements...when they have research backing them. And these studies have to be published and peer reviewed. They should end up on PubMed or otherwise be widely accepted among vets.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Yes, a lot of drugs come from natural extracts. It is possible to use some of these natural remedies to treat diseases. A few problems come with that though.

First, self-diagnosis is usually involved followed by self-treatment. I don't have a license to practice medicine, so I'm not going to read an article about a random plant extract and assume it's ok to give it to my dog.

Then there is the issue of side effects not being reported. It's bad enough that the effects of drugs aren't reported by some vets. There is no system of reporting for holistic medicine, so there is very little accountability.

And I'd hate to see an owner start a new treatment without realizing that it is countraindicated when taking into consideration another disease the pet has or a drug that they are already on. For instance, chamomile can interact with cyclosporine.

Also, besides side effects not needing to be reported, there are no solid records for success of treatment. There aren't studies to back these things up, so then it is subjective opinion.

It's certainly safer if the vet diagnoses a problem and suggests this way of treatment. And for those who want their pets to only have all natural remedies, that's fine. But remember if it was really as good as it sounds, more vets would do it. Ellie's vet has no problem with supplements...when they have research backing them. And these studies have to be published and peer reviewed. They should end up on PubMed or otherwise be widely accepted among vets.

ETA: Drugs have extra ingredients to preserve, bring certain properties out, etc. The same can't be said for holistic treatments. So even if the same or similar base ingredients are used, it's still not the same. And not all natural things are good while chemicals are bad. Arsenic is natural. Water is a chemical.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Yes, a lot of drugs come from natural extracts. It is possible to use some of these natural remedies to treat diseases. A few problems come with that though.

First, self-diagnosis is usually involved followed by self-treatment. I don't have a license to practice medicine, so I'm not going to read an article about a random plant extract and assume it's ok to give it to my dog.

Then there is the issue of side effects not being reported. It's bad enough that the effects of drugs aren't reported by some vets. There is no system of reporting for holistic medicine, so there is very little accountability.

And I'd hate to see an owner start a new treatment without realizing that it is countraindicated when taking into consideration another disease the pet has or a drug that they are already on. For instance, chamomile can interact with cyclosporine.

Also, besides side effects not needing to be reported, there are no solid records for success of treatment. There aren't studies to back these things up, so then it is subjective opinion.

It's certainly safer if the vet diagnoses a problem and suggests this way of treatment. And for those who want their pets to only have all natural remedies, that's fine. But remember if it was really as good as it sounds, more vets would do it. Ellie's vet has no problem with supplements...when they have research backing them. And these studies have to be published and peer reviewed. They should end up on PubMed or otherwise be widely accepted among vets.

Great Post

[Ringo1]

I have a Westie with bad skin allergies that we keep under control. I just wanted to mention that another thing to add to your arsenol could be a soothing cortisone shampoo. Our vet prescribed some for Ringo. That, along with our other medications and diet changes ~ worked wonders.

[Vinniedoggy]

Thanks everyone for your responses. Very reassuring. It is helpful to hear from others who are going through what we are. Thankfully, Alex appears perfectly healthy is every other way, and the allergist we're working with is wonderful (we're in Montgomery County, MD, just outside DC, and go to Dr. Jeffers - AADC - Animal Allergy & Dermatology Clinic | Skin Testing). The staff there have been really helpful.

For the next couple of weeks, we're doing the prednisone, slowly tapering down. We did three days @ 5.0mg, and are currently on 5.0 mg every other day. Then, we'll go down to 2.5mg every other day, and then 2.5 mg every third day. Basically, they want to do a slow taper, and then start on the Atopica. I know in humans, cyclosporin (which is what Atopica contains) is preferable to prednisone, as cyclosporin has fewer side effects. I am assuming it's the same in dogs.

Like someone mentions above, the hope is that this is just temporary. The allergy shots should be working by March, at which time we will slowly d/c the Atopica. I am hoping, hoping, hoping the allergy shots work because this little guy has had a rough life and deserves to at least be itch-free!

We are also doing a weekly anti-fungal bath, as Alex's last skin slide showed a skin yeast infection. Has anyone else had trouble with this? He definitely was starting to develop a yeasty smell, which has since gone away with the anti-fungal baths (he also did a course of antibiotics and a course of oral anti-fungal medication).

One more thing - we just got back from the beach and Alex was so much more comfortable there. I don't know if it was the salt water or what, but he was really, really happy. Maybe we should just move to the beach

[Ringo1]

Originally Posted by Vinniedoggy

Thanks everyone for your responses. Very reassuring. It is helpful to hear from others who are going through what we are. Thankfully, Alex appears perfectly healthy is every other way, and the allergist we're working with is wonderful (we're in Montgomery County, MD, just outside DC, and go to Dr. Jeffers - AADC - Animal Allergy & Dermatology Clinic | Skin Testing). The staff there have been really helpful.

For the next couple of weeks, we're doing the prednisone, slowly tapering down. We did three days @ 5.0mg, and are currently on 5.0 mg every other day. Then, we'll go down to 2.5mg every other day, and then 2.5 mg every third day. Basically, they want to do a slow taper, and then start on the Atopica. I know in humans, cyclosporin (which is what Atopica contains) is preferable to prednisone, as cyclosporin has fewer side effects. I am assuming it's the same in dogs.

Like someone mentions above, the hope is that this is just temporary. The allergy shots should be working by March, at which time we will slowly d/c the Atopica. I am hoping, hoping, hoping the allergy shots work because this little guy has had a rough life and deserves to at least be itch-free!

We are also doing a weekly anti-fungal bath, as Alex's last skin slide showed a skin yeast infection. Has anyone else had trouble with this? He definitely was starting to develop a yeasty smell, which has since gone away with the anti-fungal baths (he also did a course of antibiotics and a course of oral anti-fungal medication).

One more thing - we just got back from the beach and Alex was so much more comfortable there. I don't know if it was the salt water or what, but he was really, really happy. Maybe we should just move to the beach

Yep! That would certainly be the favored treatment!

[SassyAnn101]

Trouble had alot of yeast, and had the smell too. He is allergic to Staph which made his problem even worse. He was on antibotics for three weeks too. I had to give him medicated baths twice a week during this time. In the
beginning I thought he was getting worse, but it quickly turned around and like I said before he is a different dog. I hope you have great results too. I know how hard it is to watch them suffer.

[Vinniedoggy]

Knock on wood, things have been getting progressively better. We're down to 2.5 mg of prednisone every three days, which my vet confirmed yesterday is not therapeutically significant (i.e., it's too low a dose to be having any therapeutic benefit). So one more dose of that, and he's done. For now, it is looking like we'll be able to stay off prednisone and Atopica, at least through the winter. Someone at the allergist's office said that Alex was likely having a reaction to whatever was blooming at the moment, and I'm sure that's what was going on. Looks like winter will bring the little guy some relief. And hopefully by next summer those allergy shots will be working their magic!