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Old 08-10-2010, 09:13 AM   #1
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Default What fatty foods should I avoid

My Yorkie mix Teddy Bear seems to have a sensitive stomach. He can't eat any fatty meat or he will throw it up and/or get a tummy ache. I have often wondered if he is a candidate for pancreatitis so I try to avoid fatty foods. Our old vet told us to give him kayopectate and it did help him. Since I have been watching his diet closely and avoided fatty meat he has not had any more episodes in a long time.

I have a new vet who said she prefers home cooking to dog food. She recommended an equal mixture of salmon/mixed veggies/brown rice. Someone told me that salmon is a fatty fish so I should avoid it. I sub cod for the salmon about half the time.

Can anyone tell me what foods I should absolutely avoid feeding Teddy Bear and maybe give me some possible alternatives to the fish/mix veg/brown rice. I did sub some frozen peas and frozen green beans for the mix veg and gave some brown pasta for the rice. I hope that is ok. I mix the home cooked food with Cal Natural Lamb and Rice dog food because I still want them to eat the kibble in case they are missing nutrients from the home cooked diet. Daisy was itching a lot when I fed them boiled chicken so I am trying to avoid that too.

I tried feeding them raw NV medallians one time and I didn't really like feeding them raw and the new vet does not recommend raw diet.

They love the home cooked food but I think they may be gaining weight on it. Any suggestions?

Thanks. I really want to do what's best for them.

One more question....are the ceramic bowls made in China safe? Is it safe to heat their food in the microwave in these bowls? I remember hearing years ago that some human dishes that are made in China are not safe because of the paint leaching into the food. I hope someone can help me with some suggestions.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:30 AM   #2
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Pink fish isn't going to be super high in fat. The bet way to figure out how much fat he is actually getting is to have a nutritionist analyze the recipe. Unfortunately, because there are no supplements added and a substantial amount of homecooked is being given, it will likely come back showing nutrient deficiencies.

My pancreatitis-prone girl eats tuna. She used to eat whitefish. White meat chicken and turkey would also be ok for most pups. Anyway, would not feed any fish that is said to be fatty without nutritionist oversight. I hope that wasn't too confusing.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:38 AM   #3
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Thanks for the info. I think I will try baking a turkey breast for them. I am only giving them about half home cooked mixed with the other half Cal Natural Lamb and Rice dry. Vet did tell me they will need additional nutrients (she sells them) if I go to home cooked alone. I was thinking they will still get the nutrients from the kibble. I am wondering if I should give them the nutrients anyway. I also have the idea fixed in my head that they need to eat kibble to keep their teeth clean. Maybe that isn't true.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:49 AM   #4
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Half homecooked is usually too much without supplements. There is no all-in-one supplement in the US that is made to meet AAFCO guidelines besides Balance It. The softer food may get stuck in their teeth and cause tartar build-up (it depends who you ask), but kibble doesn't actually clean them. They should be brushed either way.

BTW, not just fatty foods set Ellie off. Just ones she doesn't usually get... So it can be hard to know exactly what will trigger a problem.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:57 AM   #5
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Thanks again for the info. How can I get Balance It? I will definitely get it.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:58 AM   #6
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You are very smart to try to avoid Pancreatitis. Barney had his second life-threatening acute pancreatitis attack back in March. It is very very painful for the dog and the bills rack up quick besides.

In our case, both time Barney had eaten chicken and sweet potato canned Wellness food (the purple can) - I did not realize that the first time was that food until the second time (5 years later). Since no one really knows every little food that can set off pancreatitis, it's best to keep it simple. One owner on here had a dog that got pancreatitis twice from eating a pea her husband dropped off his plate. So you just never know.

We now do not eat any dog food or treats. We have Barney on a Board Certified Veterinary Nutritionist formulated home cooked diet that is 3% fat, and that is the diet Barney will be on for the rest of his life. It has not affected his coat or skin and he looks fantastic at 10.

I'd avoid anything but the "meal" your dog should be eating - I second Ellie May and say go to a vet nutritionist (an ACVS board certified one) if you want to do this right and completely balanced. All three of mine are on diets formulated by the ASPCA-Angell Memorial Hospital vet nutritionist, Dr. Remillard, who has literally saved my dog Daisy's life.

Good luck with whatever you decide.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:59 AM   #7
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BTW - if your dog is gaining from eating home cooked, you're feeding too much. We've always had lean dogs....dog food puts the weight on ours, just like Chinese food puts it on me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doodlebug View Post
My Yorkie mix Teddy Bear seems to have a sensitive stomach. He can't eat any fatty meat or he will throw it up and/or get a tummy ache. I have often wondered if he is a candidate for pancreatitis so I try to avoid fatty foods. Our old vet told us to give him kayopectate and it did help him. Since I have been watching his diet closely and avoided fatty meat he has not had any more episodes in a long time.

I have a new vet who said she prefers home cooking to dog food. She recommended an equal mixture of salmon/mixed veggies/brown rice. Someone told me that salmon is a fatty fish so I should avoid it. I sub cod for the salmon about half the time.

Can anyone tell me what foods I should absolutely avoid feeding Teddy Bear and maybe give me some possible alternatives to the fish/mix veg/brown rice. I did sub some frozen peas and frozen green beans for the mix veg and gave some brown pasta for the rice. I hope that is ok. I mix the home cooked food with Cal Natural Lamb and Rice dog food because I still want them to eat the kibble in case they are missing nutrients from the home cooked diet. Daisy was itching a lot when I fed them boiled chicken so I am trying to avoid that too.

I tried feeding them raw NV medallians one time and I didn't really like feeding them raw and the new vet does not recommend raw diet.

They love the home cooked food but I think they may be gaining weight on it. Any suggestions?

Thanks. I really want to do what's best for them.

One more question....are the ceramic bowls made in China safe? Is it safe to heat their food in the microwave in these bowls? I remember hearing years ago that some human dishes that are made in China are not safe because of the paint leaching into the food. I hope someone can help me with some suggestions.
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:17 AM   #8
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Thank you both for your responses. I am looking for one now.
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:50 AM   #9
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I would avoid any fatty foods. My little girl ate some brisket with fat and she developed pancreatitis and IBD and died. I told my husband time after time not to give her any fat and he did anyway and she paid the price. I feed my new one Primal Raw food and she loves it. The vet wasn't crazy about it but too bad - I'm the one responsible for her health. She is 7 mos now and doing great. The Primal comes with all the supplements that the dog requires.
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Old 08-10-2010, 11:19 AM   #10
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Is that a 'medllion' type food like NV? Is all raw low fat? What flavor do you feed?
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Old 08-10-2010, 11:22 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherie6446 View Post
I would avoid any fatty foods. My little girl ate some brisket with fat and she developed pancreatitis and IBD and died. I told my husband time after time not to give her any fat and he did anyway and she paid the price. I feed my new one Primal Raw food and she loves it. The vet wasn't crazy about it but too bad - I'm the one responsible for her health. She is 7 mos now and doing great. The Primal comes with all the supplements that the dog requires.
Cherie
I guess what I was trying to ask is 'what foods have high fat content', rather that which fatty foods to avoid. Thanks!
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Old 08-10-2010, 11:36 AM   #12
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Red meats tends to be high fat along with a lot of pork products. Really depends on the cut.

Almost all raw diets are moderate to very high in fat.
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Old 08-10-2010, 01:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doodlebug View Post
Is that a 'medllion' type food like NV? Is all raw low fat? What flavor do you feed?
You can go to their website and click on the picture of the food and all the stats are there for each type of food. I do know that their food is low in protein and I added a puppy kibble to increase the protein - until she is older.
Puppies need more protein for their bones.
It is a one ounce nugget - frozen. You defrost and sever at room temp.
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:04 PM   #14
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Excess fat is simply a trigger for pancreatitis and may start the cascade of effects in the pancreas, but it's not a cause of pancreatitis nor is raw food a cause of pancreatitis. Pancreatitis is an indication of a sick pancreas, and it can be triggered by many factors - specific types of fat being one, but it's also important to realize that fat is important in a dogs diet too. If your dog has an already-damaged pancreas and you feed it a diet of raw meat or something high in fat, then your dog may have an attack of pancreatitis. The high fat can trigger pancreatitis, but again, the pancreas is already damaged for whatever reason or the dog is not in good health despite "looking" healthy.

Fats are highly digestible, very palatable, and are an energy dense nutritional ingredient which is essential for healthy coat and skin, reproductive efficiency, kidney function and the absorption of the fat soluble vitamins, A, D, E, and K. It is the main source of energy - one gram of fat supplies 2.4 times the energy of one gram of protein or carbohydrates. As a less well known fact is that fat also serves as a metabolic source of water, so a hard working dog is less likely to get dehydrated when fed a diet higher in fat. Fat metabolism produces 107g of water for every 100 grams of fat. Protein produces 40g water/100g, and carbohydrates produce 55g water/100g. The fatty acid ratio is important for reducing the production of inflammatory mediators in the dog's skin, plasma, and neutrophils (a type of white blood cells). Omega-6 to omega-3 fatty acid ratios of 7:1 or lower are optimal.

Typically pancreatitis as studies show is caused by a high fat - low protein diet, obesity, trauma (car accidents, falling), other diseases (Cushing's syndrome, diabetes), tumors, some drugs and toxins (e.g. antibiotics, insecticides), and genetic predisposition (hyperlipidemia, e.g. mini schnauzer, cocker spaniel).

As part of a well balanced diet, pork isn't any more dangerous than beef, lamb or chicken. The fat content is key, and many pets suffer from pancreatitis when fed excessively fatty, greasy table scraps - which aren't part of a balanced diet. The most susceptible animals are those who don't eat anything but kibble all year and suddenly get an overload of goodies. There is a good number of so called premium quality dog foods that use pork meal as a main protein source too and don't suffer pancreatitis.

Further raw diets actually contains fewer trans fats and saturated fats than other dog food diets also, live enzymes found in raw food do nothing but make the pancreas' job easier. The enzymes in raw meat help predigest the meat, which means the pancreas has to release less lipase, ribonuclease, and deoxyribonuclease and thus actually has an easier job.
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Old 08-11-2010, 04:46 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melcakes View Post
Excess fat is simply a trigger for pancreatitis and may start the cascade of effects in the pancreas, but it's not a cause of pancreatitis nor is raw food a cause of pancreatitis. Pancreatitis is an indication of a sick pancreas, and it can be triggered by many factors - specific types of fat being one, but it's also important to realize that fat is important in a dogs diet too. If your dog has an already-damaged pancreas and you feed it a diet of raw meat or something high in fat, then your dog may have an attack of pancreatitis. The high fat can trigger pancreatitis, but again, the pancreas is already damaged for whatever reason or the dog is not in good health despite "looking" healthy.

Fats are highly digestible, very palatable, and are an energy dense nutritional ingredient which is essential for healthy coat and skin, reproductive efficiency, kidney function and the absorption of the fat soluble vitamins, A, D, E, and K. It is the main source of energy - one gram of fat supplies 2.4 times the energy of one gram of protein or carbohydrates. As a less well known fact is that fat also serves as a metabolic source of water, so a hard working dog is less likely to get dehydrated when fed a diet higher in fat. Fat metabolism produces 107g of water for every 100 grams of fat. Protein produces 40g water/100g, and carbohydrates produce 55g water/100g. The fatty acid ratio is important for reducing the production of inflammatory mediators in the dog's skin, plasma, and neutrophils (a type of white blood cells). Omega-6 to omega-3 fatty acid ratios of 7:1 or lower are optimal.

Typically pancreatitis as studies show is caused by a high fat - low protein diet, obesity, trauma (car accidents, falling), other diseases (Cushing's syndrome, diabetes), tumors, some drugs and toxins (e.g. antibiotics, insecticides), and genetic predisposition (hyperlipidemia, e.g. mini schnauzer, cocker spaniel).

As part of a well balanced diet, pork isn't any more dangerous than beef, lamb or chicken. The fat content is key, and many pets suffer from pancreatitis when fed excessively fatty, greasy table scraps - which aren't part of a balanced diet. The most susceptible animals are those who don't eat anything but kibble all year and suddenly get an overload of goodies. There is a good number of so called premium quality dog foods that use pork meal as a main protein source too and don't suffer pancreatitis.

Further raw diets actually contains fewer trans fats and saturated fats than other dog food diets also, live enzymes found in raw food do nothing but make the pancreas' job easier. The enzymes in raw meat help predigest the meat, which means the pancreas has to release less lipase, ribonuclease, and deoxyribonuclease and thus actually has an easier job.
Excellent research, thanks for posting.
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