Shots Question

[tonyag9]

Hey everybody I have been so busy I have only had time to read here lately, but haven't posted. I just logged in to get some advice because I know you guys are the ones who know everything lol

Pixel is due for his next round of shots (after 1 year) and I've read NOT to give them rabies and lepto together. Is this correct? My vet didn't seem to think it would be a problem. If it is, which one should I hold off on and for how long do I need to wait? Thanks for any help!

[Britster]

I personally would advise against it. Rabies is a very strong vaccine and I think it's best given by itself. Lepto causes reactions often times in little dogs (Jackson is 12lbs and he had a reaction!) but if she's already been fine w/ Lepto, you probably won't have a problem.

[chachi]

Lepto is the one not reccomended to be given because dogs have reactions to it sometimes severe reactions. However we have cases of it in our area and my vet gives it to mine and they havent had any reactions.

[jp4m2]

Originally Posted by tonyag9

Hey everybody I have been so busy I have only had time to read here lately, but haven't posted. I just logged in to get some advice because I know you guys are the ones who know everything lol

Pixel is due for his next round of shots (after 1 year) and I've read NOT to give them rabies and lepto together. Is this correct? My vet didn't seem to think it would be a problem. If it is, which one should I hold off on and for how long do I need to wait? Thanks for any help!

Good for you for looking into this ........You are correct to be very concerned abut this issue......even though the vet thinks otherwise.......

This is what my research has concluded.....

*NEVER GIVE ANY OTHER SHOT WITH A RABIES SHOT. Wait at least three or four weeks between the rabies shot and other shots.

*....Virologists recognize that a gap of at least 3-4 weeks is desirable between giving one vaccine and then a different one, because if not so spaced the immune response to the second vaccine may be inadequate and not produce sufficient specific antibodies to give immunity. If there is a dormant/latent viral infection already present in the recipient, vaccination against another pathogen could impair the immune system leading to the latent viral infection taking hold.

*Giving combo vaccines (multi-valiant, polyvalent) and/or several shots at once increases the risk of adverse reactions as well as the risk that the vaccines will interfere with each other, resulting in neutralization or negation. (American Animal Hospital Association)

*Small dog alert! Small dogs are more likely to experience adverse reactions, and shots containing multiple vaccines are more likely to cause adverse reactions according to renowned pet vaccine expert Dr. Jean Dodds.


Earlier vaccine guidelines issued by the AAHA Canine Vaccine Task Force in 2003 note that MLV vaccines are likely to provide lifelong immunity, stating “when MLV vaccines are used to immunize a dog, memory cells develop and likely persist for the life of the animal”.
Professor Ronald Schultz, a renowned expert in immunology, says that if a puppy is immunized with the three MLV vaccines to prevent parvovirus, distemper virus and adenovirus “there is every reason to believe the vaccinated animal will have up to life-long immunity”. Schultz advises that puppies should be revaccinated at one year of age with the vaccines used earlier. After that he does not believe there is any immunologic need to revaccinate annually with these vaccines.

* The AAHA Canine Vaccine Task Force in 2003 note that MLV vaccines are likely to provide lifelong immunity, stating “when MLV vaccines are used to immunize a dog, memory cells develop and likely persist for the life of the animal” They recommend boosters every three years, but Dr. Schultz, DR. Dodds, and Dr. Pitcairn all say this is too often. Dr. Dodds compares immunity to," Once you’re pregnant, being more pregnant isn't useful." If the dog is immune to the disease, he's also immune to the virus in the "booster" vaccine.

* A two-year study of vaccine reactions (from data gathered at 360 Banfield clinics in 2002 and 2003) concluded: “Young adult small-breed neutered dogs that received multiple vaccines per office visit were at greatest risk of a VAAE [Vaccine Associated Adverse Event] within 72 hours after vaccination.” Vaccination Risk for Small Dogs | Truth4Dogs

The reaction rate increased significantly as body weight decreased. That is, small dogs were at greatest risk for a reaction. Risk for dogs weighing 11 pounds or less was 4 times greater than the risk for dogs weighing 99+ pounds. Medium-sized dogs also had increased risk over larger dogs. I have always been shocked that a Chihuahua puppy and an adult Great Dane are given the same dose shot: 1 mL. They get the same volume of virus or bacteria plus the same volume of adjuvants (boosting agents like aluminum), preservatives (like mercury), antibiotics, stabilizers and foreign tissue cultures (like fetal calf serum). All these ingredients are known to cause vaccine reactions.


As for Lepto.....

* Dr Ron Schultz (the world’s foremost independent authority on canine vaccines) hates to see them in with anything else
and, in puppies, advises that they are completely finished with the viral inoculations before getting a vaccine against
Lepto, which he neither recommends nor advocates - even in Lepto endemic areas.
“I have seen older dogs go into kidney failure within two days of receiving a Lepto vaccine.”

* In the Canine Health Concern vaccine survey, 100% of dogs with leptospirosis contracted it just after being vaccinated against it. Leptospirosis, of course, attacks the kidneys – and the puppy had severe kidney damage.


Sorry so long but I like to give as many sources as possible to be as useful as possible.....

[tonyag9]

I can't thank you guys enough for all of the help! I knew I could count on you guys!

jp4m2 - That was very informative. I have a few more questions though:

1) Okay, so I will make sure NOT to have them together, but does it matter which I do FIRST?

2) Also, if I wait the 3 weeks to a month to have the other shots, he will be a few weeks overdue at that time. Will that be okay?

3) Is it okay that he have all shots BUT the rabies at once? I don't have the postcard from the vet with me, but there were 2 or 3 other shots in addition to lepto/rabies.

4) Should I be concerned my vet doesn't know about this and switch vets?

Sorry for all of the questions, but I don't want to put my baby's life at risk because of mommy's ignorance

Thanks again!!

[jp4m2]

Originally Posted by tonyag9

I can't thank you guys enough for all of the help! I knew I could count on you guys!

jp4m2 - That was very informative. I have a few more questions though:

1) Okay, so I will make sure NOT to have them together, but does it matter which I do FIRST? No

2) Also, if I wait the 3 weeks to a month to have the other shots, he will be a few weeks overdue at that time. Will that be okay? There is no time limit ....you don't start over.....The question is when was it administered ?...It's about when not how many......

3) Is it okay that he have all shots BUT the rabies at once? I don't have the postcard from the vet with me, but there were 2 or 3 other shots in addition to lepto/rabies. No....You might want to reevaluate that card. This is what vets typically do hoping you'll just do them all. Most researchers recommend just the "core" vaccine which would be parvo, distemper and rabies......

4) Should I be concerned my vet doesn't know about this and switch vets? Sadly this is quite typical....A lot of vets are very reluctant to change what they have been taught in school, and some don't want to loss the income......

Sorry for all of the questions, but I don't want to put my baby's life at risk because of mommy's ignorance

Thanks again!!

I just lost my post I'll try and redo this......

This explains why it's not that it requires a "set" of vaccines to work it's the timing.....After 6 months and one is all that is needed....

Dogs and cats immune systems mature fully at 6 months. If a modified live virus vaccine is given after 6 months of age, it produces immunity, which is good for the life of the pet (ie: canine distemper, parvo, feline distemper). If another MLV vaccine is given a year later, the antibodies from the first vaccine neutralize the antigens of the second vaccine and there is little or no effect. The titers are not “boosted” nor are more memory cells induced. "J Dodds, DVM



It is commonly held that puppies need a certain number of vaccines for protection to be achieved (usually either 3 or 4 is the “magic” number). The number of vaccines given has nothing to do with protection. In order for protection to be achieved, vaccine must be given when it can penetrate maternal antibody. " (American Animal Hospital Association)

Here is a schedule from Dr. Dodds if it would help.....Notice she has vaccines she does not recommend.....

Vaccination Schedule Recommendations For Dogs

Good luck.....Hope this helps.....If you want to read up on vaccines looking up info on Dr Dodds.... Dr. Schultz....Dr.Bob Rogers.....Catherine O'Driscoll would be a good place to start......

[tonyag9]

THANK YOU!!! I will be printing this out and taking it to my vet next week - just hope she listens and I don't have to take Pixel elsewhere

[chestermama]

no shots with rabies too much of a reaction, chester got his bortadella with his rabies and that was okay, when chester was a puppy he said he does not give any of the regular shots with rabies not in the smaller dogs

[motherhen]

Is it a good idea to do your puppy shots yourself at home? It gets really expensive taking the little ones to the vet so much.