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Old 08-31-2009, 04:16 PM   #1
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Default Immunizations, flea and tick, heartworm

Today I talked to a woman from a Yorkie Rescue Group.

According to her, I am doing everything wrong. She said Revolution is toxic to tiny dogs, Lyme disease immunizations are not needed, leptospirosis shots and not needed, Rabies shots are to high of a dose. She even told me the dog food I am feeding my dog is not good.

I have had my Yorkie for 5 1/2 years, she is very healthy. I was feeding her Wellness, but am switching her over slowly to Royal Canin Yorkie because it's suppose to be good kibble for her teeth.

According to her, a lot of the immunizations are just a way for the vet to make money off people.

Then, she tried to make me feel guilty about putting my other dog to sleep last December. I felt bad about it for a long time. She asked me if my dog became sick after being immunized. Heck, I can't remember, I was so upset at the time, and I threw the receipts away from the vet.

Geeze, I am beginning to think rescuing a dog is a bad idea.
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Old 08-31-2009, 04:48 PM   #2
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I agree with heron the imunizations. We are over vaccinating. Most vaccinations only need to be given every 3 years. Lymne disease vacs are only needed if your dog runs free where there is a high deer population.

some areas do not need heartworm meds, it all depends on your mosquito population. And treating for flea and tick every month is too much. I wait until I actually see a tic or a flea before treating. many years I do not need to treat them at all.

I also do not routinly worm my puppies. It is not true that all puppies have worms. Puppies get worms from being exposed to worms. If the rest of the dogs do not have worms, then how is the puppy going to get them.

I believe it is true, vets make money off of all the meds and that is why they push them.

My dogs are fed Royal Canin. I like the idea that they have a formula especially for the needs of a yorkie.

Oh and yes rescue groups can be a bit condescending, but they truley are looking out for the animal. how ever I think many good homes get passed over because they do not fit in the BOX.

Last edited by JeanieK; 08-31-2009 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 08-31-2009, 05:12 PM   #3
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She is probably half right.

There have been some concerns about Revolution having a higher mortality rate than other heartworm preventatives and there are reports that it is sometimes ineffective...more so than other drugs used for this. IMO, Interceptor and Heartgard are better. Using heartworm prevention is important in MI.

Overvaccinating is very easy. Lepto is debatable. Most dogs don't need lyme's here.

Is she saying the RC is bad or the Wellness?

Sometimes rescue organizations are very opinionated and it honestly is sometimes easier to buy a dog from a breeder.
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Old 08-31-2009, 05:30 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by periwinkle View Post
Today I talked to a woman from a Yorkie Rescue Group.

According to her, I am doing everything wrong. She said Revolution is toxic to tiny dogs, Lyme disease immunizations are not needed, leptospirosis shots and not needed, Rabies shots are to high of a dose. She even told me the dog food I am feeding my dog is not good.

I have had my Yorkie for 5 1/2 years, she is very healthy. I was feeding her Wellness, but am switching her over slowly to Royal Canin Yorkie because it's suppose to be good kibble for her teeth.

According to her, a lot of the immunizations are just a way for the vet to make money off people.

Then, she tried to make me feel guilty about putting my other dog to sleep last December. I felt bad about it for a long time. She asked me if my dog became sick after being immunized. Heck, I can't remember, I was so upset at the time, and I threw the receipts away from the vet.

Geeze, I am beginning to think rescuing a dog is a bad idea.


I'm sorry that this woman's information made you feel guilty. But I am pleased she was well aware of all these issues.... she was just trying to inform you. .....She is correct that vets are doing a booming business the pets are paying dearly health wise and the owners are paying dearly pocket book wise.


Most pets will only require distemper, parvo, and by law the rabies is required. The rabies is given way too much but the law says it's to be done so our pets are subjected to this vaccine much more than is needed or required. This chart may help if your overwhelmed by this issue. It's a good starting point to go by....

Vaccination Schedule Recommendations For Dogs

As you can see, the studies on the parvo and distemper are documented to last a minimum of 7 years but they ( Dr. Dodds and Dr. R. Schultz ) feel they are protected for life. So when a vet sends you that little reminder card in the mail to come in for a booster , I would give that some serious consideration as to what his motivation is.

These links have some useful info also....

Puppy Shots

Revaccination

Heartworm and flea products are also used way to much. If a person chooses to use these pesticides then they should be used as little as possible. I've seen people applying heartworm during the winter when there is absolutely no chance of contracting the parasite. If it's below 57 degrees the larvae can not develop to the L3 level in the mosquito, but yet again people use these products out of fear. The pet is more likely to contract cancer from the pesticides than of getting the heartworm. The manufacturer knows this and they play on our fears. This is a easy to understand article on heartworm....

Heartworms | Truth4Dogs


I hope this is helpful.....I understand the guilt and feeling like a bad pet owner because you did some things that you would not have done if you would have just had the info. But when you don't know these things and you believe, and ask for guidance, in the people who are supposed to have your pets best interest at heart, you trust them without question. Now that you are aware you can make better decisions for your pets, and you should feel good about that.
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Old 08-31-2009, 05:48 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by jp4m2 View Post
I'm sorry that this woman's information made you feel guilty. But I am pleased she was well aware of all these issues.... she was just trying to inform you. .....She is correct that vets are doing a booming business the pets are paying dearly health wise and the owners are paying dearly pocket book wise.


Most pets will only require distemper, parvo, and by law the rabies is required. The rabies is given way too much but the law says it's to be done so our pets are subjected to this vaccine much more than is needed or required. This chart may help if your overwhelmed by this issue. It's a good starting point to go by....

Vaccination Schedule Recommendations For Dogs

As you can see, the studies on the parvo and distemper are documented to last a minimum of 7 years but they ( Dr. Dodds and Dr. R. Schultz ) feel they are protected for life. So when a vet sends you that little reminder card in the mail to come in for a booster , I would give that some serious consideration as to what his motivation is.

These links have some useful info also....

Puppy Shots

Revaccination

Heartworm and flea products are also used way to much. If a person chooses to use these pesticides then they should be used as little as possible. I've seen people applying heartworm during the winter when there is absolutely no chance of contracting the parasite. If it's below 57 degrees the larvae can not develop to the L3 level in the mosquito, but yet again people use these products out of fear. The pet is more likely to contract cancer from the pesticides than of getting the heartworm. The manufacturer knows this and they play on our fears. This is a easy to understand article on heartworm....

Heartworms | Truth4Dogs


I hope this is helpful.....I understand the guilt and feeling like a bad pet owner because you did some things that you would not have done if you would have just had the info. But when you don't know these things and you believe, and ask for guidance, in the people who are supposed to have your pets best interest at heart, you trust them without question. Now that you are aware you can make better decisions for your pets, and you should feel good about that.
I also agree that vets recommend way to many vaccinations and many vets practices are sustained by vaccinations alone!!!!!

The government mandated amount of rabies vaccine is the same for a 1 lb dog as it is for a 200 lb dog. This makes absolutely no sense at all. Many vets will give less and still sign the certification since only you and they know what was given. Most states have adopted the 3 year rabies vaccine, but there are still a couple states that mandate it every year. The Rabies Challenge Fund is working to get the vaccine changed to every 7 years as there is documentation showing this also lasts literally a lifetime!!!!!!!!

I will not vaccinate my girls again for distemper, parvo, adenovirus of hepatitis as I believe they have lifetime immunity and my vet fully agrees with this. We do rabies only because we have to by law, however Sissy will get bloodwork first and if ANY value is outside of normal limits, I will get a medical exception letter from my vet due to her digestive disorder diagnosis. I also do not do lepto as there are several active strains and the vaccination doesn't come close to protecting against them all. All the recommendations indicate for toy breeds the risks associated with the vaccination far outweigh any potential benefit. Vaccinations such as corona, giardia and the new dental vaccine are a complete waste of money and just injecting poison into your furkids.

We do use heartworm year round as mosquitos can be found here in the middle of winter even though we live in a cold climate. There are also more and more instances of heartworm in strictly indoor animals in our area as well. We use Interceptor, which has a dose for 2-10 lb animals and also has the least amount of incidents reported. I do not use flea/tick protection as I prefer the natural essential oils in the shampoo we use. I have not seen a single flea on my girls.
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Old 08-31-2009, 06:14 PM   #6
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I agree partly on the vaccines, but that is only because it really depends on the area you live in and what you do with your dog. When Sophie got her last set of shots she got the norms plus corona since they didn't have the other. She didn't have any reaction to it at all. Rabies is required so she got that as well and I plan to give her the boosters and the rabies when they are required simply because most groomers and boarding kennels require this. Also, I only plan to give her the bordatella if we board her, too. I'm not giving her lyme and lepto, though.

On the heartworm/worm meds, I have a pill to give her tomorrow and I plan on giving it once a month because even though West Tennessee can have cold winters, too, we are known to have mosquitos in the particular area where I live all year round and many dogs around here get worms easily so I want her to be protected if we go out.

On the food, I also feed RC (puppy formula) right now, but I'm switching to either wellness or natural balance because they are more natural and honestly they are cheaper here than RC is!

That's just my opinion and I know several people who don't agree with me on the vaccines and the worm meds, but I trust what my vet says and what I know from living in the area all my life.
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Old 08-31-2009, 06:17 PM   #7
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I agree it is a money pit. If I dont go to my vet that I grew up going to with my parents--I get screwed. And he is now a LONG drive from me. I have taken my puppies shot records to other vets and they say "well, you dont really know if they got them, so lets do it again to be safe." So crazy!
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Old 08-31-2009, 06:22 PM   #8
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I agree it is a money pit. If I dont go to my vet that I grew up going to with my parents--I get screwed. And he is now a LONG drive from me. I have taken my puppies shot records to other vets and they say "well, you dont really know if they got them, so lets do it again to be safe." So crazy!
Oh, and I do agree that it is a money pit as well. Our vet is so reasonable compared to everyone else, and he doesn't mind me asking questions and even saying I don't want something that he might want. It is so hard to find a good vet!
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Old 09-01-2009, 06:12 AM   #9
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Default Immunizations, flea and tick, heartworm

Basically the lady from the rescue group said she wouldn't feed Wellness or Royal Canin to her dogs. She said the protein in a dog food should be between %18 and 25%.

She said she doesn't use flea and tick medicine, but uses a product called Triple Sure. I live in Southeast MI, and we have lots of mosquito's in summer.

I guess I have a lot more studying to do. If I change to Heartguard for a 7 pound dog, how much should I give her? I still have 5 months of Revolution left over also.

Also, I take my dog's on lots of walks, we go to parks a lot. If I stop some of these immunization's won't my dog pick up some disease if she sniffs around posts, etc.

Thanks
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Old 09-01-2009, 06:40 AM   #10
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Basically the lady from the rescue group said she wouldn't feed Wellness or Royal Canin to her dogs. She said the protein in a dog food should be between %18 and 25%.

She said she doesn't use flea and tick medicine, but uses a product called Triple Sure. I live in Southeast MI, and we have lots of mosquito's in summer.

I guess I have a lot more studying to do. If I change to Heartguard for a 7 pound dog, how much should I give her? I still have 5 months of Revolution left over also.

Also, I take my dog's on lots of walks, we go to parks a lot. If I stop some of these immunization's won't my dog pick up some disease if she sniffs around posts, etc.

Thanks
I don't think what you are doing is terrible. You obviously want what's best.
Telling you that a dog's food should contain between 18-25% protein is nothing more than an opinion. Some people believe that high protein foods can cuase renal failure. That really hasn't been proven. I'm not comfortable iwth higher protein foods, but that is my opinion.

A lot of very good vets use Revolution and that's okay.
There is some info circulating about dogs getting heartworms while on it.
It can happen with any heartworm med, but it seems to be more so with this one. That's one of the reasons I don't like it.

If you give Heartgard or Interceptor, you would just give the whole dose.

As much as using so many drugs and pesticides is not good, I live in SE MI also and if my dog was in the woods, she would be on flea prevention. And if natural remedies really worked that well, more people would be using them, so I shy away from them.

Lymes vaccines are a hard call. I suppose it depends on how many people are having the problem with their dogs in your area.

Neither Wellness nor RC are horrible food choices.
I would go with Wellness first if I had to pick one.
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Old 09-01-2009, 07:53 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by periwinkle View Post
Today I talked to a woman from a Yorkie Rescue Group.

According to her, I am doing everything wrong. She said Revolution is toxic to tiny dogs, Lyme disease immunizations are not needed, leptospirosis shots and not needed, Rabies shots are to high of a dose. She even told me the dog food I am feeding my dog is not good.

I have had my Yorkie for 5 1/2 years, she is very healthy. I was feeding her Wellness, but am switching her over slowly to Royal Canin Yorkie because it's suppose to be good kibble for her teeth.

According to her, a lot of the immunizations are just a way for the vet to make money off people.

Then, she tried to make me feel guilty about putting my other dog to sleep last December. I felt bad about it for a long time. She asked me if my dog became sick after being immunized. Heck, I can't remember, I was so upset at the time, and I threw the receipts away from the vet.

Geeze, I am beginning to think rescuing a dog is a bad idea.
Well this woman doesnt sound too nice, but she is probably half right.. I feel and this is totally my opinion now, that we over vacc our pets in this country. I am going to a holistic vet and she recommended that after the first year shots that he doesnt need to be vacc again ever. I have to do titer tests to make sure that he is still covered and the rabies next year for a three year shot. I will not be giving Maxi the lepto or the lyme as I feel they do more harm then good. totally me opinion though and I know others may feel different. And honestly, vaccs really are a way to just make money. I mean the actual vaccine liquid costs between 5-10 dollars, they sell them (dr. fosters and smith) for people who want to do it at home and they charge you how much at the vet? between 80-200 for each vaccine.. totally a money maker if you ask me.

In regards to food, I homecook my baby and add the healthy powder that the vet told me too (because I dont like kibble) but I heard Wellness is one of the best kibble out there so i really wouldnt worry about that at all.
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Old 09-01-2009, 08:05 AM   #12
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I also agree that vets recommend way to many vaccinations and many vets practices are sustained by vaccinations alone!!!!!

The government mandated amount of rabies vaccine is the same for a 1 lb dog as it is for a 200 lb dog. This makes absolutely no sense at all. Many vets will give less and still sign the certification since only you and they know what was given. Most states have adopted the 3 year rabies vaccine, but there are still a couple states that mandate it every year. The Rabies Challenge Fund is working to get the vaccine changed to every 7 years as there is documentation showing this also lasts literally a lifetime!!!!!!!!

I will not vaccinate my girls again for distemper, parvo, adenovirus of hepatitis as I believe they have lifetime immunity and my vet fully agrees with this. We do rabies only because we have to by law, however Sissy will get bloodwork first and if ANY value is outside of normal limits, I will get a medical exception letter from my vet due to her digestive disorder diagnosis. I also do not do lepto as there are several active strains and the vaccination doesn't come close to protecting against them all. All the recommendations indicate for toy breeds the risks associated with the vaccination far outweigh any potential benefit. Vaccinations such as corona, giardia and the new dental vaccine are a complete waste of money and just injecting poison into your furkids.

We do use heartworm year round as mosquitos can be found here in the middle of winter even though we live in a cold climate. There are also more and more instances of heartworm in strictly indoor animals in our area as well. We use Interceptor, which has a dose for 2-10 lb animals and also has the least amount of incidents reported. I do not use flea/tick protection as I prefer the natural essential oils in the shampoo we use. I have not seen a single flea on my girls.

What shampoo do you use for your fleas and ticks? I actually bought this product called flea flicker that protects against fleas, ticks and mosquitos and its all natural oils ... my holistic vet was impressed with my buy and told me that it looks like a great prodcut so I spray it on Maxi when we go to the park. But the shampoo seems like a good idea during the summer months.

Also, I just want to add that my vet aslo said to give him the heartguard every 3 months, not every month they way they tell you too because she said that for a small dog one pill will cover him for three months and its not necessary to give him in the winter months. Im not sure if I will stop or not, I have to see how it is here during the winter before I make a decision, but I doubt he will be going out much then so we will see
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Old 09-01-2009, 04:25 PM   #13
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Default Immunizations, flea and tick

I shampoo my dog with Minksheen it is anti-bacterial and has a natural insect repellant in it.
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Old 09-01-2009, 05:08 PM   #14
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What shampoo do you use for your fleas and ticks? I actually bought this product called flea flicker that protects against fleas, ticks and mosquitos and its all natural oils ... my holistic vet was impressed with my buy and told me that it looks like a great prodcut so I spray it on Maxi when we go to the park. But the shampoo seems like a good idea during the summer months.

Also, I just want to add that my vet aslo said to give him the heartguard every 3 months, not every month they way they tell you too because she said that for a small dog one pill will cover him for three months and its not necessary to give him in the winter months. Im not sure if I will stop or not, I have to see how it is here during the winter before I make a decision, but I doubt he will be going out much then so we will see
I use both Minksheen and Buddy Wash - both contains essential oils that are natural flea repellants. I work a lot with essential oils and love the smell, but many do not like it at all. I also use Cain & Able Lavender Fresh between bath spritz before we go outside. It again has essential oils and is heavy on the citronella. This has worked very well for us at meet-ups that are in rural areas with lots of weeds and trees around.

Just a note about Heartguard - the smallest dose is for a dog up to 25 lbs, so they are getting much more medication than if you used Interceptor. Giving only every three months does not ensure that larvae will be killed before reaching a stage that can be leathal. Heartworm medicine is only active in the system for 72 hours after giving - the reason for a monthly dose is to kill any larvae that may have hatched before they get to a stage 3 or 4. Many vets tell you it is not necessary in winter months, but even in Michigan, we see mosquitos in the house in the middle of winter. And for whatever reason, many strictly indoor animals have reported cases of heartworm in our area. This is the only thing my vet is adamant about. Interceptor is also less expensive than heartgard will many less reported problems.
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