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Old 06-13-2009, 07:35 PM   #1
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Question Deciding on LP Surgery

I need advice and help from those of you that have had a pup go through the LP surgery. I am struggling with this decision and I would love to hear from those of you that have opted for the surgery as well as those that opted not to have the surgery and the outcomes.

My little Jockey is 15 months old and 3.6 lbs
He showed signs of skipping from the moment he arrived last July and I had no idea what to make of it. I thought it was a little puppy quirk. As I watched him grow, the side stepping became more of a skip in his back right leg when he walked quickly. I eventually had him checked by the vet and he told me what it was and that I needed to wait til he was a year old for his growth plates to close and then consider surgery.

I have taken him just last week to a surgeon that specializes in these types of surgeries and he told me that his back left leg is a stage 2 and his back right leg is a stage 3. He recommends surgery sooner than later. The cost will be $2900 for one leg or $3700 for both. He says he would do both instead of putting him through surgery twice because he believes eventually the left should be corrected as well.

I am struggling with this so much. Not just with the financial part which is a huge concern but more importantly with making this decision as to whether he really needs it. Some say that LP can correct itself in some cases and I know that if nothing is done arthritis could be in Jockey's future.

Please lend me your experiences. I would really really appreciate any insight.

Thank you. My pups mean the world to me and I only want what is absolutely best for them.
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Old 06-14-2009, 08:30 AM   #2
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No one has any advice or experience to share with me.
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Old 06-14-2009, 08:36 AM   #3
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i would only do if dog is in pain and lifting leg -- you are pretty close to me -- you could get a second opinion at vmsg from dr hollsworth Veterinary Medical And Surgical Group (VMSG) as this is an excellent facility. I would not do both and would only do one if in pain. It does not correct itself that i have read and it leaves them open for acl tear or rupture so you have to keep them from twisting and turning chasing ball for ex and jumping on and off furniture.

Is your dog lifting his leg?

whether they have surgery or not they will get arthritis is what an orthopedic told me

another excellent surgeon is dr scott anderson but he is in West Los angeles so may be a bit far for you

My girl has LP 4 but never lifts leg as permanently out but she hurt her leg and we think it is acl but is not lifting leg and walking on it and in 80% of small dogs the scar tissue will act as a tendon so no surgery needed

now if she were lifting her leg i would have surgery done
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Old 06-14-2009, 08:36 AM   #4
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oh and you may want to put in sick and injured section as well as you may get more responses that way
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Old 06-14-2009, 08:41 AM   #5
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this is from a vet

Luxating Patellas

Patellas can be diagnosed at a very young age, toy breeds are at high incidence of LP. some LP can be made from a trauma and won't be present at the initial exam. i dont think that a dog with LP should be bred, but it doesnt mean that 2 normal dogs can't produce a pup with LP. i check the knees at a first pup visit but that isn't to say that every vet does. some don't look unless there is an issue. and u can grade patellas with out an xray:

Medial patellar luxations are graded to assess severity.

Grade I: The kneecap can be moved out of place manually but will fall back into its natural position once the manipulator lets go.

Grade 2: Same thing except that the kneecap does not move back to its normal position when the manipulator lets go. These dogs are likely to progress to arthritis development and should be considered for surgery to prevent conformational damage. There is some controversy over whether grade 2 dogs should have surgery.

Grade 3: The patella is out of place all the time but can be manipulated back into its normal position manually (though it will not stay there).

Grade 4: The patella is not only out of place all the time but cannot even be manipulated back into place by hand. Such a dog has extreme difficulty extending his knees and walks with his knees bent virtually all the time.

It is not a good thing to have one's knee cap out of place; the entire weight-bearing stress of the rear leg is altered which, in time, leads to changes in the hips, long bones, and ultimately arthritis. How severe the changes are depends on how severe the luxation is (i.e., the grade as described above) and how long that degree of luxation has been going on. In time, the legs will actually turn inward, making the dog "knock-kneed." The luxation is not considered a painful condition but after enough time and conformational change, arthritis sets in, which is indeed painful.

Dogs with Grade I luxations do not require surgical repair.

Grade 2 dogs may benefit from surgery and most often the owner is called upon to judge how big a problem the lameness is.

Dogs with Grade 3 or 4 disease definitely should have surgery.
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Old 06-14-2009, 10:08 AM   #7
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Thank you. And Dr Hollsworth is the specialist that I took Jockey to last week in Ventura.

He isn't lifting his leg. But he skips on that leg when he walks fast. He is in NO pain and doesn't seem to have any discomfort but gets annoyed with it on occasion.

Do you think I should wait then and see how he does?

I will read all of the other info that you shared with me. Thank you so much.



Quote:
Originally Posted by dwerten View Post
i would only do if dog is in pain and lifting leg -- you are pretty close to me -- you could get a second opinion at vmsg from dr hollsworth Veterinary Medical And Surgical Group (VMSG) as this is an excellent facility. I would not do both and would only do one if in pain. It does not correct itself that i have read and it leaves them open for acl tear or rupture so you have to keep them from twisting and turning chasing ball for ex and jumping on and off furniture.

Is your dog lifting his leg?

whether they have surgery or not they will get arthritis is what an orthopedic told me

another excellent surgeon is dr scott anderson but he is in West Los angeles so may be a bit far for you

My girl has LP 4 but never lifts leg as permanently out but she hurt her leg and we think it is acl but is not lifting leg and walking on it and in 80% of small dogs the scar tissue will act as a tendon so no surgery needed

now if she were lifting her leg i would have surgery done
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Old 06-14-2009, 10:31 AM   #8
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My Pommie just was released to resume normal activity after having both knees done. Snowboy is 1.5 yrs. old. He is a rescue and I knew the moment I saw him walking that there were problems. The vet said that if the doggie doesn't seem to be in pain then there isn't any need at that time. But then on the other hand he said that the sooner it is done the less damage there is, the better the repair is. Make sure that pins are put in. Sooo important!!!!!! Snowboy was starting to limp and not wanting to walk too far. It was time. Yes it is much easier on the doggie to have both done at the same time. The down-time for having them done separately would be about 22 wks. if you want to include the restricted activity time when you are gradually increasing the activity. It cost $1,600 for both knees both knees at the K-State Vet. Teaching Hospital in Manhattan, KS. It would have been around $3,000 separately. I was very, very careful that Snowboy did nothing but walk when he had to go pee. I always had him on a leash even for that. I had 3 ex-pens around the house so that when I went from room to room I could take him along and put him in the pen. That way he never had a fit because he was being left behind. He is doing very well. He is so happy to be free. Sometimes I feel that even now I need to slow him down. Don't like it when he plays with his brother or sister and they bite his hind leg. I keep a pretty close eye on their rough-housing.
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Old 06-14-2009, 10:48 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloan View Post
Thank you. And Dr Hollsworth is the specialist that I took Jockey to last week in Ventura.

He isn't lifting his leg. But he skips on that leg when he walks fast. He is in NO pain and doesn't seem to have any discomfort but gets annoyed with it on occasion.

Do you think I should wait then and see how he does?

I will read all of the other info that you shared with me. Thank you so much.
if it were me i would hold off a bit and kelly on here had the surgery done by hollsworth i can pass on to you her as well to help
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Old 06-14-2009, 10:49 AM   #10
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Jockey's right leg is a Level 2-3 and his left is a level 2. But it doesn't stay out of place when he walks on it, he skips and it pops right back in. The vet had to manipulate the left to make it go in and out but it causes no issues.

I'm thinking from reading all of this that maybe it isn't necessary to do the surgery.
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Old 06-14-2009, 10:50 AM   #11
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pm toby'smama and tell her i referred you as she had toby done by hollsworth and really liked him
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Old 06-15-2009, 07:14 AM   #12
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Default LP

I took my 4 year old to the vet surgery center specialist here and she said that she recommends NOT doing it unless it is happening all the time and it seems to bother her. She is at a 3 is what I was told. She has had it pop out several times within a small period ( a week or two) and then it won't happen for months. The very first time and only once since did it make her yelp in pain. We just got pain meds from the vet and she was back running the next day.
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:09 AM   #13
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Hey there. I am so, so sorry to hear about your little Jockey. I am also sorry I missed this thread, I haven't been on much lately.

Ranger was diagnosed with bilateral luxating patellas about two or three months ago. I was devestated. I spoke with my vet extensively, as well as doing a ton of research. I spoke with my orthopedic surgeon extensively as well, and we made the educated decision to go ahead with the surgery.

Here are my threads:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...artbroken.html

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...er-update.html

Ranger was a grade 2/3 in his left leg I believe, and a 2 in the right. We obviously did both of them together, and I would have never done it any other way. Ranger has been a free man for about two weeks now, after eight weeks of confinement. I will not lie- the first several days were absolute hell and I questioned my decision hourly. However, each day got better and better. He handled being confined better than I ever imagined and is a happy, happy man now!

I decided to go ahead with the surgery for a couple different reasons. The number one being that Ranger is an incredibly active dog who absolutely thrives on some serious activity. I couldn't bear the thought of him being hindered in the slightest- his love for life and doing things made my decision easy. After speaking with our surgeon, he explained that the surgery and subsequent recovery does become much worse as the disease progresses. He wasn't nearly as bad as some, and was using both legs within days, with no limping. The surgeon also explained that if it is not fixed, arthritis can set in badly making the repair nearly impossible.

I am not trying to pressure you into having the surgery done, just giving you my reasons for doing so for Ranger. I would not have done the surgery for such a mild case if it was Ryder, as he is not active at all and would rather be carried outside than walk.

I think you need to look at the whole picture- if Jockey is active and thrives on activity, I think the sooner the better in his case. However, if he is a couch potato and could care less about running and playing, maybe wait.

Anyway, I am sorry this is so long. I just know it was people that have been through this that made it easier for myself and Ranger. Good luck and please keep me updated.
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Old 06-22-2009, 05:15 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amandawash View Post
Hey there. I am so, so sorry to hear about your little Jockey. I am also sorry I missed this thread, I haven't been on much lately.

Ranger was diagnosed with bilateral luxating patellas about two or three months ago. I was devestated. I spoke with my vet extensively, as well as doing a ton of research. I spoke with my orthopedic surgeon extensively as well, and we made the educated decision to go ahead with the surgery.

Here are my threads:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...artbroken.html

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...er-update.html

Ranger was a grade 2/3 in his left leg I believe, and a 2 in the right. We obviously did both of them together, and I would have never done it any other way. Ranger has been a free man for about two weeks now, after eight weeks of confinement. I will not lie- the first several days were absolute hell and I questioned my decision hourly. However, each day got better and better. He handled being confined better than I ever imagined and is a happy, happy man now!

I decided to go ahead with the surgery for a couple different reasons. The number one being that Ranger is an incredibly active dog who absolutely thrives on some serious activity. I couldn't bear the thought of him being hindered in the slightest- his love for life and doing things made my decision easy. After speaking with our surgeon, he explained that the surgery and subsequent recovery does become much worse as the disease progresses. He wasn't nearly as bad as some, and was using both legs within days, with no limping. The surgeon also explained that if it is not fixed, arthritis can set in badly making the repair nearly impossible.

I am not trying to pressure you into having the surgery done, just giving you my reasons for doing so for Ranger. I would not have done the surgery for such a mild case if it was Ryder, as he is not active at all and would rather be carried outside than walk.

I think you need to look at the whole picture- if Jockey is active and thrives on activity, I think the sooner the better in his case. However, if he is a couch potato and could care less about running and playing, maybe wait.

Anyway, I am sorry this is so long. I just know it was people that have been through this that made it easier for myself and Ranger. Good luck and please keep me updated.

Thank you for your input and for sharing your experience. I am so glad that Ranger is doing well post surgery and has recovered with such good results.

My little Jockey is active to the point that he does run and play in the yard with my other yorkie and cat but not all of the time. He actually is a pretty quiet little guy. He prefers to be carried on walks and will take advantage of that if he can. He spends the majority of the day in one of his many little beds or just laying on the deck outside. Not to say that he doesn't like to romp and play because he does.....he just isn't the go-getter that my other yorkie is.

I will continue to consider all aspects as best as I can. Thanks again.
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Old 06-22-2009, 06:17 AM   #15
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My Cali has Grade 4 in both legs and shows no sign of pain or limping. Due to this and her other medical issues the vet and I decided to not put her under unless she is in pain. I would have another conversation with your vet after reading experiences here and see what you both decide.
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