Preparation for Bile Acid Test (BAT): Help! - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Nikitta34 · 05-31-2009, 05:29 AM

Meg has her Bile Acid Test in the morning. It's currently 10:30pm and I'm now fasting her, and I just read that she cannot have any chews (ie: bully stick) tonight or in the morning. My question is: do I need to bring a specific type of food with me, or will the vet provide the fatty food? My vet gave me virtually no guidance on this. The only thing she said was "Don't give her breakfast". And how much will Meg need to eat tomorrow? Can too much/too little food cause the test results to not be accurate? What if she won't eat the food they give her? She's very picky. Can I bring human food (= guarantee she'll eat it)?

The BAT is a blood test, right? I was just reading online that a urine sample is collected, but I don't think that's right.

kjc · 05-31-2009, 05:46 AM

The Bile Acid test is a blood test used to determine liver function. A blood sample will be drawn after fasting, then the dog is fed a fatty meal, and another blood sample is taken I think it's 2 hours after the meal.
Your vet will supply the food. They may take a urine sample. Your vet will give you discharge instructions when you pick her up.

Nikitta34 · 05-31-2009, 05:55 AM

Thanks for your response. So what if Meg won't eat the food they supply? And what are normal results? I've done some searching on YT and it seems as though a 0 is a good Pre-score and under 45 is a good Post-score. Is this correct?

Thank you!

Ellie May · 05-31-2009, 06:02 AM

If your vet uses Idexx labs, a pre of either 7 and under or 10 and under (can't remember) is normal. A post of 15 or below is good but Dr. Center says 25 and below.

She is fasted for 12 hours (the protocol has changed on this but this is still the one most vets use and it is okay), then blood is drawn, then she is fed, then blood is drawn again in 2 hours. The vet should supply the food and they can force feed if necessary. Human food would be the last resort because you wouldn't know the protein and fat amount she is getting.

Another way to do the bile acids test is with a urine sample but that is not the best way, so no they should not be taking urine. Some vets will let dogs go home in between blood draws but you can't let her eat... That way you avoid the hospitalization fee if they were going to charge you and the dog is happier.

bchgirl · 05-31-2009, 06:14 AM

I attended a seminar given by Dr Center in March. It was she who developed the bile acid test. Pre range is 0 - 10 and post is under 25. You will find repeated references to a post reading of 20...but this is incorrect.

She also said it is not necessary to feed what the vet has on hand...that often times the vet insists on this solely because they feel it provides a "control"....however getting the dog to eat is what's most important.

Good luck.

Nikitta34 · 05-31-2009, 06:14 AM

Crystal, you are exactly the person I was hoping to hear from!!!

I was looking at a bunch of old threads that you had posted on. Thanks for your input. I feel more knowledgeable already.

Will it make a difference if the food she normally eats is in the 27%-32% protein range? I mix her foods: Wellness Super5 Puppy, TotW Prairie, and Royal Canin - only because she loves it and eats mostly that. I am trying to ween her off it though. I read that high protein foods will affect the BAT, but if I am fasting her correctly then I should be fine, right?

Also, if the fast ended up being more like 11 hours, is that a problem? Meg crunched on a few pieces of kibble she had hidden away in a corner after I took away her food dish.

If you don't mind, I'll post her scores tomorrow. My vet (military vet in Korea) doesn't have a whole lot of experience with small dogs and I trust some of the YTers more than I trust the vet.

Nikitta34 · 05-31-2009, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bchgirl

I attended a seminar given by Dr Center in March. It was she who developed the bile acid test. Pre range is 0 - 10 and post is under 25. You will find repeated references to a post reading of 20...but this is incorrect.

She also said it is not necessary to feed what the vet has on hand...that often times the vet insists on this solely because they feel it provides a "control"....however getting the dog to eat is what's most important.

Good luck.

So maybe I should bring along a can of Newman's Own since Meg eats that sometimes? I guess it doesn't hurt to bring it, just in case. Does the food need to be canned, or is kibble okay?

kjc · 05-31-2009, 06:21 AM

My vet sent my dog's bloodwork to Antech Diagnostics in NY. The reference range for the Pre meal is < 10.0 umol/L and the Post meal is < 20.0 umol/L. Then in the comments section it states: If either result exceeds 25 umol/L, abnormal liver function should be considered. Elevated postprandial bile acids are supportive of hepatobiliary disease. The majority of animals with congenital or acquired portosystemic shunting have markedly increased postprandial values (>100 umol/L)

Nikitta34 · 05-31-2009, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjc

My vet sent my dog's bloodwork to Antech Diagnostics in NY. The reference range for the Pre meal is < 10.0 umol/L and the Post meal is < 20.0 umol/L. Then in the comments section it states: If either result exceeds 25 umol/L, abnormal liver function should be considered. Elevated postprandial bile acids are supportive of hepatobiliary disease. The majority of animals with congenital or acquired portosystemic shunting have markedly increased postprandial values (>100 umol/L)

Kathy, thanks for looking that up for me. I'm hoping Meg doesn't have any shunt/liver issues. I'm doing the BAT just to put an end (I hope) to my worries. Meg hasn't shown any symptoms, but I know it's so common in Yorkies, and if she is going to have problems, I want to start special diet modifications, etc asap.

Ellie May · 05-31-2009, 02:06 PM

I have heard of one vet doing it with just 2 noodles because that is what the dog could handle at the time. That said, it is best to use the same food if she ends up needing a repeat (hopefully not) just because bile acids are funny and different protein amounts may do different things. So, I'd use something that you can easily use again if possible. The food you are feeding sounds okay. A lot of vets just give a few bites of A/D.

Nikitta34 · 05-31-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I have heard of one vet doing it with just 2 noodles because that is what the dog could handle at the time. That said, it is best to use the same food if she ends up needing a repeat (hopefully not) just because bile acids are funny and different protein amounts may do different things. So, I'd use something that you can easily use again if possible. The food you are feeding sounds okay. A lot of vets just give a few bites of A/D.

So maybe I will bring just the Royal Canin today. Meg is pretty much guaranteed to eat it, whereas she will pick at the Wellness and TotW, plus the results of a second test will be more accurate if she's just eating one food.

Who knew that a few bites of food is all she needs for the test. I assumed she'd need to eat an entire meal. Thanks!

05-31-2009, 05:29 AM	#1
Nikitta34 YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 764 Blog Entries: 1	Preparation for Bile Acid Test (BAT): Help! Meg has her Bile Acid Test in the morning. It's currently 10:30pm and I'm now fasting her, and I just read that she cannot have any chews (ie: bully stick) tonight or in the morning. My question is: do I need to bring a specific type of food with me, or will the vet provide the fatty food? My vet gave me virtually no guidance on this. The only thing she said was "Don't give her breakfast". And how much will Meg need to eat tomorrow? Can too much/too little food cause the test results to not be accurate? What if she won't eat the food they give her? She's very picky. Can I bring human food (= guarantee she'll eat it)? The BAT is a blood test, right? I was just reading online that a urine sample is collected, but I don't think that's right. __________________ - Nicole, Megatron, and T-Bone Check out our blog! http://nicoleandtim.blogspot.com

05-31-2009, 05:46 AM	#2
kjc I♥PeekTinkySaph&Finny Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 18,866	The Bile Acid test is a blood test used to determine liver function. A blood sample will be drawn after fasting, then the dog is fed a fatty meal, and another blood sample is taken I think it's 2 hours after the meal. Your vet will supply the food. They may take a urine sample. Your vet will give you discharge instructions when you pick her up. __________________ Kat Chloe Lizzy PeekABooTinkerbell SapphireInfinity

05-31-2009, 05:55 AM	#3
Nikitta34 YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 764 Blog Entries: 1	Thanks for your response. So what if Meg won't eat the food they supply? And what are normal results? I've done some searching on YT and it seems as though a 0 is a good Pre-score and under 45 is a good Post-score. Is this correct? Thank you! __________________ - Nicole, Megatron, and T-Bone Check out our blog! http://nicoleandtim.blogspot.com

05-31-2009, 06:02 AM	#4
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	If your vet uses Idexx labs, a pre of either 7 and under or 10 and under (can't remember) is normal. A post of 15 or below is good but Dr. Center says 25 and below. She is fasted for 12 hours (the protocol has changed on this but this is still the one most vets use and it is okay), then blood is drawn, then she is fed, then blood is drawn again in 2 hours. The vet should supply the food and they can force feed if necessary. Human food would be the last resort because you wouldn't know the protein and fat amount she is getting. Another way to do the bile acids test is with a urine sample but that is not the best way, so no they should not be taking urine. Some vets will let dogs go home in between blood draws but you can't let her eat... That way you avoid the hospitalization fee if they were going to charge you and the dog is happier. __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

05-31-2009, 06:14 AM	#5
bchgirl Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: at da beach Posts: 15,444 Blog Entries: 2	I attended a seminar given by Dr Center in March. It was she who developed the bile acid test. Pre range is 0 - 10 and post is under 25. You will find repeated references to a post reading of 20...but this is incorrect. She also said it is not necessary to feed what the vet has on hand...that often times the vet insists on this solely because they feel it provides a "control"....however getting the dog to eat is what's most important. Good luck. __________________ Deb, Reese, Reggie, Frazier, Libby, Sidney, & Bodie Trace & Ramsey who watch over us www.biewersbythebay.com

05-31-2009, 06:21 AM	#8
kjc I♥PeekTinkySaph&Finny Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 18,866	My vet sent my dog's bloodwork to Antech Diagnostics in NY. The reference range for the Pre meal is < 10.0 umol/L and the Post meal is < 20.0 umol/L. Then in the comments section it states: If either result exceeds 25 umol/L, abnormal liver function should be considered. Elevated postprandial bile acids are supportive of hepatobiliary disease. The majority of animals with congenital or acquired portosystemic shunting have markedly increased postprandial values (>100 umol/L) __________________ Kat Chloe Lizzy PeekABooTinkerbell SapphireInfinity

05-31-2009, 02:06 PM	#10
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	I have heard of one vet doing it with just 2 noodles because that is what the dog could handle at the time. That said, it is best to use the same food if she ends up needing a repeat (hopefully not) just because bile acids are funny and different protein amounts may do different things. So, I'd use something that you can easily use again if possible. The food you are feeding sounds okay. A lot of vets just give a few bites of A/D. __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶