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Old 06-10-2009, 03:05 AM   #31
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While conventional prevention and treatment of heartworm is very effective, it is increasingly being acknowledged in the veterinarian profession that there are a number of health risks associated with this form of treatment. Preventative medication used for heartworm is not really preventing the infestation - it is a way of killing off the larvae circulating in your pet’s body during the early stages - before they get to adult stage and cause damage. The chemicals used in these drugs are pesticides. Although they are used preventatively in small amounts, because they are administered regularly month after month, the damage to the animal’s system is cumulative. Some side effects listed for heartworm preventative drugs are weakness, vomiting, convulsions and diarrhea. More importantly, regular use can weaken your pet’s immune system and place strain on kidneys and liver. This can result in greater susceptibility to infection and other diseases. Many holistic vets are of the opinion that long-term use of heartworm prevention drugs is one of the factors in the development of diseases like skin allergies, arthritis, liver and kidney diseases and even some forms of cancer. So while conventional ‘preventative’ treatment against heartworm may help to keep your pet heartworm free, it can also cause other problems, some of which are potentially just as serious as heartworm disease.
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Old 06-10-2009, 03:28 AM   #32
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Here's a regional map.

You can click on tabs to see heartworm, lyme. Hover over your state and see #'s for your state, click on your state to find your counties numbers.

One note, I use heartguard for G & B (not the chewable, the other) and the tab I buy is the bigger tab which I cut in half, giving each 1/2. This is being done at my vet's rec as it is slightly cheaper.

Hmmm...now you are worrying me.

Couple of other thoughts: I don't adminsister heartworm or flea/tick meds during the winter.

I called the vet in April (when it began to warm) to double check if I needed to have them tested for heartworm before I began. They checked there records. For some reason, I had the testing done in December (I think I was taking them for their annual shots), and since it had been cold they said go ahead and start up.

Then, yesterday (coincidence?) I realized I had missed their May pill. I called the vet, because I had always been told once a month. They weren't even concerned, since I only missed one month they told me it would be safe to administer now.

Hmm.....
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Old 06-10-2009, 04:20 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane View Post
Oh...thank you for your very informative post!!

I only buy Heartgard and Advantage from my vet....she also does not charge a lot for the very same reason. I think most vets are like that. It always amazes me that people order online from just anyone to save a couple of dollars. They really do not understand that these items are not always legitimate and could harm their pets.
This is good information, but the points I am concerned about are 1) the difference in the information that we, as consumers, receive from our Vets about Heartworm prevention, as opposed to the information the manufacturers must report to the government about heartworm preventative products, and 2) Why haven't these manufacturers adjusted the dosages to better suit the growing sector of society that includes the owners of small dogs, who must regularly dose their small dogs with 2-5 times the amount of Heartworm preventative product called for and deemed safe and minimal for the 10-20 pound and up crowd?

And, while I'm here, let it be known that many of the topical flea and tick preventative products sold separately for dogs and cats are actually the same product, just the dosage is different. So, if you use a more accurate dose for your small dog, you would have enough product left to treat 1-2 cats, or 1-2 additional months to treat your small dog, or enough to treat an additional 1-2 small dogs (for us multiple/catdog people).

All I really want to do is treat my small dog with the minimum recommended amount of any product, and to treat my liver shunt afflicted rescue Yorkie with products that will keep her safe and not make her sick or kill her at the same time. I need to know what is safe, at the minimum dose for any animal I choose to treat.
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Old 06-10-2009, 10:20 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by kjc View Post
This is good information, but the points I am concerned about are 1) the difference in the information that we, as consumers, receive from our Vets about Heartworm prevention, as opposed to the information the manufacturers must report to the government about heartworm preventative products, and 2) Why haven't these manufacturers adjusted the dosages to better suit the growing sector of society that includes the owners of small dogs, who must regularly dose their small dogs with 2-5 times the amount of Heartworm preventative product called for and deemed safe and minimal for the 10-20 pound and up crowd?

And, while I'm here, let it be known that many of the topical flea and tick preventative products sold separately for dogs and cats are actually the same product, just the dosage is different. So, if you use a more accurate dose for your small dog, you would have enough product left to treat 1-2 cats, or 1-2 additional months to treat your small dog, or enough to treat an additional 1-2 small dogs (for us multiple/catdog people).

All I really want to do is treat my small dog with the minimum recommended amount of any product, and to treat my liver shunt afflicted rescue Yorkie with products that will keep her safe and not make her sick or kill her at the same time. I need to know what is safe, at the minimum dose for any animal I choose to treat.

I think you make a very valid point in this post, My boy is liver compromised and my little girl is still pretty litte. There is deffinately a market for lower dose medication. It would be great if we didn't have to OD our pets on heartworm and flea meds every month to keep them protected. Some pets are more tollerent, mine both are very sensitive, I am lucky to be in an area that is very low risk for HW but still I should be able to give them a dose that is correct to body their size and less threatening to Copper's condition.

As far as flea meds, my vet suggested to but half on Copper and the other half of the dose on Maddie. He told me that the minimal dose should easily keep both of them prtected all month long. I haven't seen a flea on them so I assume that it works just as well.
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:48 AM   #35
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I think you make a very valid point in this post, My boy is liver compromised and my little girl is still pretty litte. There is deffinately a market for lower dose medication. It would be great if we didn't have to OD our pets on heartworm and flea meds every month to keep them protected. Some pets are more tollerent, mine both are very sensitive, I am lucky to be in an area that is very low risk for HW but still I should be able to give them a dose that is correct to body their size and less threatening to Copper's condition.

As far as flea meds, my vet suggested to but half on Copper and the other half of the dose on Maddie. He told me that the minimal dose should easily keep both of them prtected all month long. I haven't seen a flea on them so I assume that it works just as well.
So there are Vets out there that are working within the guidlines set forth by the manufacturers, but able to adjust dosing to be safer for some of their tinier clientele. My vet did the same for me, so I can dose my dogs and my cats with the same product, just different amounts using my individual pets' exact weights and the manufacturers' recommended minimum dose ie: 2.7mg of Selamectin per pound of body weight for dogs. Even though the manufacturer claims this product is safe if over dosed by 10 times, or if ingested (this is a topical application) I don't want to apply a tube that is made to be a safe, minimum dose for a 10# or 20# dog to a 3# or 5# dog.
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Old 06-11-2009, 10:40 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by kjc View Post
So there are Vets out there that are working within the guidlines set forth by the manufacturers, but able to adjust dosing to be safer for some of their tinier clientele. My vet did the same for me, so I can dose my dogs and my cats with the same product, just different amounts using my individual pets' exact weights and the manufacturers' recommended minimum dose ie: 2.7mg of Selamectin per pound of body weight for dogs. Even though the manufacturer claims this product is safe if over dosed by 10 times, or if ingested (this is a topical application) I don't want to apply a tube that is made to be a safe, minimum dose for a 10# or 20# dog to a 3# or 5# dog.

Yes this is exactly our case too, with the topical flea tick prescription mine actually have both my pets name on the one rx and says to 1/2 dose each my vet wants what is best for my pets (his words) and I am happy about this. Technically they are both still being slightly overdosed seeing how the rx is for a dog closer to 10lbs and their combined weight is about 7lbs but not nearly as much as they would be if I was giving them each the full ammount. We still are looking for a solution for the HW rx because it is not topical it is a little harder to find something that is either very gentle on their systems or not such a high dose. Maybe the manufacture will realize that there is a growing population of small dog owners who would like to carefully be on a preventative. Wishfull thinking
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Old 06-11-2009, 11:02 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Gingergirlsmom View Post
Here's a regional map.

You can click on tabs to see heartworm, lyme. Hover over your state and see #'s for your state, click on your state to find your counties numbers.

One note, I use heartguard for G & B (not the chewable, the other) and the tab I buy is the bigger tab which I cut in half, giving each 1/2. This is being done at my vet's rec as it is slightly cheaper.

Hmmm...now you are worrying me.

Couple of other thoughts: I don't adminsister heartworm or flea/tick meds during the winter.

I called the vet in April (when it began to warm) to double check if I needed to have them tested for heartworm before I began. They checked there records. For some reason, I had the testing done in December (I think I was taking them for their annual shots), and since it had been cold they said go ahead and start up.

Then, yesterday (coincidence?) I realized I had missed their May pill. I called the vet, because I had always been told once a month. They weren't even concerned, since I only missed one month they told me it would be safe to administer now.

Hmm.....
Great link thank you, I did want to tell you that you that certain pills can't be cut in half, they are not guaranteed to have the same ingredients in each half. It should say on your box. You could be overdosing one, and underdosing another. There are some brands you can cut in half.
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Old 06-12-2009, 07:26 PM   #38
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Playing with flea preventatives is one thing. Playing with heartworm preventatives is quite another. Fleas do not kill...heartworms do! And I am sure that none of you who would think of cutting doses of Heartgard have considered thinking about how the doses are titrated in each half or quarter.
Sorry, but I am totally stunned that anyone would recommend something like that. I am also honestly shocked that anyone calls Heartgard a poison. I have heard of pups eating entire boxes of that stuff with no ill effects.
Please, anyone reading this thread, if you are considering using holistic treatments for heartworms, ask the people pushing that stuff to show you solid proven research results!
There can be side effects to anything. There are allergies to anything. Does that mean that you are going to stop protecting yourself, your children, and your pups from things that could potentially kill them?
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Old 06-12-2009, 07:47 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by ladyjane View Post
Playing with flea preventatives is one thing. Playing with heartworm preventatives is quite another. Fleas do not kill...heartworms do! And I am sure that none of you who would think of cutting doses of Heartgard have considered thinking about how the doses are titrated in each half or quarter.
Sorry, but I am totally stunned that anyone would recommend something like that. I am also honestly shocked that anyone calls Heartgard a poison. I have heard of pups eating entire boxes of that stuff with no ill effects.
Please, anyone reading this thread, if you are considering using holistic treatments for heartworms, ask the people pushing that stuff to show you solid proven research results!
There can be side effects to anything. There are allergies to anything. Does that mean that you are going to stop protecting yourself, your children, and your pups from things that could potentially kill them?


Great post! This disease is horrible, very painful to treat and so easy to prevent.
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Old 06-12-2009, 07:55 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by ladyjane View Post
Playing with flea preventatives is one thing. Playing with heartworm preventatives is quite another. Fleas do not kill...heartworms do! And I am sure that none of you who would think of cutting doses of Heartgard have considered thinking about how the doses are titrated in each half or quarter.
Sorry, but I am totally stunned that anyone would recommend something like that. I am also honestly shocked that anyone calls Heartgard a poison. I have heard of pups eating entire boxes of that stuff with no ill effects.
Please, anyone reading this thread, if you are considering using holistic treatments for heartworms, ask the people pushing that stuff to show you solid proven research results!
There can be side effects to anything. There are allergies to anything. Does that mean that you are going to stop protecting yourself, your children, and your pups from things that could potentially kill them?
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Old 06-12-2009, 08:33 PM   #41
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(excerpt from above link)

While conventional prevention and treatment of heartworm is very effective, it is increasingly being acknowledged in the veterinarian profession that there are a number of health risks associated with this form of treatment. Preventative medication used for heartworm is not really preventing the infestation - it is a way of killing off the larvae circulating in your pet’s body during the early stages - before they get to adult stage and cause damage. The chemicals used in these drugs are pesticides. Although they are used preventatively in small amounts, because they are administered regularly month after month, the damage to the animal’s system is cumulative. Some side effects listed for heartworm preventative drugs are weakness, vomiting, convulsions and diarrhea. More importantly, regular use can weaken your pet’s immune system and place strain on kidneys and liver. This can result in greater susceptibility to infection and other diseases. Many holistic vets are of the opinion that long-term use of heartworm prevention drugs is one of the factors in the development of diseases like skin allergies, arthritis, liver and kidney diseases and even some forms of cancer. So while conventional ‘preventative’ treatment against heartworm may help to keep your pet heartworm free, it can also cause other problems, some of which are potentially just as serious as heartworm disease.

I just noticed that I was misquoted in the above post. I did not, nor will I ever, recommend a link to holistic treatment for heartworms.
I do not ever want to feel that someone's pup died because they thought I recommended such a thing.
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Old 06-13-2009, 05:47 AM   #42
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Of course Heartgard is poison. It is an insecticide. The same goes for Interceptor. A lot of drugs are terrible for you in large amounts though. That doesn't mean it is safe to cut back without solid proof that it is okay (like studies from universities, etc.).

The Heartgard Plus chew cannot be cut in half because the drug is unevenly distributed and half of it may contain the whole dose and the other half, nothing.

I talked to Novartis and they said that I could not cut the Interceptor tab. I have no way if they just want me to buy extra or what but until I get more information, I would fell unsafe doing so.
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Old 06-13-2009, 06:06 AM   #43
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Of course Heartgard is poison. It is an insecticide. The same goes for Interceptor. A lot of drugs are terrible for you in large amounts though. That doesn't mean it is safe to cut back without solid proof that it is okay (like studies from universities, etc.).

The Heartgard Plus chew cannot be cut in half because the drug is unevenly distributed and half of it may contain the whole dose and the other half, nothing.

I talked to Novartis and they said that I could not cut the Interceptor tab. I have no way if they just want me to buy extra or what but until I get more information, I would fell unsafe doing so.

My point is that we should be careful in our wording because people who read this forum might think they are killing their pup and stop administering hearworm preventatives.

Some people believe every single word they read without understanding the context in which things are written....and without doing any research on their own.

Heartgard is not killing pups......heartworms are! Heartworms are a huge problem and they only exist in the pups because people have the mindset that the preventatives are dangerous or because they want to cut costs.
Unfortunately I see this all of the time. Matter of fact, I am leaving here shortly to meet a YT member who is transporting a little heartworm positive yorkie to me from Louisiana.
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Old 06-16-2009, 05:59 AM   #44
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Here is an article by Jan Rasmusen, the author of Scared Poopless on heartwrom medication.

Heartworm Preventatives: Safety and Alternatives | Truth4Dogs

I consider Scared Poopless to be a must have for any pet owner. Not only is it full of important up-to-date information about everything from vaccinations to providing for your pet in your will, it is a delightful read. It is written from the perspective of the author's little Maltese, Chicklet.
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Old 06-16-2009, 08:49 AM   #45
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Here is an article by Jan Rasmusen, the author of Scared Poopless on heartwrom medication.

Heartworm Preventatives: Safety and Alternatives | Truth4Dogs

I consider Scared Poopless to be a must have for any pet owner. Not only is it full of important up-to-date information about everything from vaccinations to providing for your pet in your will, it is a delightful read. It is written from the perspective of the author's little Maltese, Chicklet.
Very interesting, thanks. Especially interesting was the info about Safeheart...and why on earth the FDA didn't approve it is beyond me.
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