YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community


Welcome to the YorkieTalk.com Forums Community - the community for Yorkshire Terriers.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. You will be able to chat with over 35,000 YorkieTalk members, read over 2,000,000 posted discussions, and view more than 15,000 Yorkie photos in the YorkieTalk Photo Gallery after you register. We would love to have you as a member!

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please click here to contact us.

Go Back   YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community > YorkieTalk > Yorkie Health & Diet
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar JavaChat Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-08-2009, 06:59 AM   #1
Donating YT 500 Club Member
 
_Chrissy_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,561
Love Label Ingredient Reading & Food Nutrition Question

Chicken, Brown Rice, Lamb Meal, Oatmeal, Barley, Duck Meal, Potatoes, Carrots, Chicken Fat (preserved with natural mixed tocopherols), Tomato Pomace, Natural Flavor, Canola Oil, Brewers Yeast, Salmon Meal, Salmon Oil, Whole Ground Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Spinach, Parsley Flakes, Cranberries, L-Lysine, L-Carnitine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Kelp, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid.

This is the info for Natural Balance Ultra. Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance® Ultra Premium Dog Food

Why is NB rated so highly????

Maybe I am reading the Ingredients wrong but from what I learned on these boards (Thanks)...
(1) The first ingredient is Chicken. Great. But it is not "Chiken Meal". That means it is given a higher placing on the ingredients list than it would if the moistur/water were removed.
(2) The second ingredient is Brown Rice. That is good except it is the 2nd ingredient behind the Chicken which has water/moisture counted in it's weight so it is higher on the list.
(3) Lamb Meal is 3rd. Awesome! No issues there.
(4) 4th and 5th are Oatmeal and Barley. Ok but shouldn't there have been more "Meat type Meals" above these?
(5) 6th ingredient is Duck Meal...Great

I guess my main issue/question is why does it seem to have a number of healthy starches above the Meat ingredients on the list?
The Brown Rice, Oatmeal, Barley 7 Potatoes is what i am refering to.
Shouldn't the first 2 or 3 be "Meal type Meats"????
I really want to understand all this so if I have misunderstood something along the way I want to clear it up.

THANK so much for your thoughts and input.
__________________
Max (the Morkie) & Mickey (the Yorkie)

Last edited by _Chrissy_; 03-08-2009 at 07:02 AM.
_Chrissy_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Welcome Guest!
Not Registered?

Join today and remove this ad!

Old 03-08-2009, 11:22 AM   #2
And Rylee Finnegan
Donating Member
 
Ellie May's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
Default

Yes, the chicken meal thing is correct and there are a lot of grains in this food. Then again, if chicken meal, lamb meal and duck meal were the first three ingredients, it would be a very high protein food. Not everyone would want that either...

The guaranteed analysis is a much better gauge of how much protein the food contains but it counts all protein...even what there is in the grains and veggies.
__________________
Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶
Ellie May is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2009, 12:35 PM   #3
Princess Poop A Lot
Donating Member
 
livingdustmops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 6,728
Default

This website might help you with your question and Whole Dog Journal also does a great job but you need a subscription with them:

The Dog Food Project - How does your Dog Food Brand compare?

Whole Dog Journal is the monthly guide to natural dog care and training.
__________________
Cindy & The Rescued Gang
Puppies Are Not Products!
livingdustmops is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2009, 04:35 PM   #4
Donating YT 500 Club Member
 
_Chrissy_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,561
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie May View Post
Yes, the chicken meal thing is correct and there are a lot of grains in this food. Then again, if chicken meal, lamb meal and duck meal were the first three ingredients, it would be a very high protein food. Not everyone would want that either...

The guaranteed analysis is a much better gauge of how much protein the food contains but it counts all protein...even what there is in the grains and veggies.
What is a good protein level?
A good fiber level?
Is there such a thing as to much protein or does that depend on each individual dog and not just the breed?
It seems the more I read the more confused and different information I find.
When I think I have a good food (EVO Turkey & Chicken) I see something that says there are problems with EVO's protein level being too high.
__________________
Max (the Morkie) & Mickey (the Yorkie)
_Chrissy_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2009, 12:47 AM   #5
YT Addict
 
lemonlauren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Nevada
Posts: 454
Default

I feed my pup EVO kibble, and he's doing so much better on it than he was on his previous grain-filled lower-protein food, and he just had bloodwork done for his neuter that confirmed that he is very healthy and happy eating EVO, and his organs are processing it just like healthy organs should.

However, it's true that high protein foods are not right for every dog, or every yorkie either. Just like not every yorkie is allergic to grains, or corn, or chicken the way some are, not every yorkie does best on a high protein grain-free food like EVO. But of course on the flipside, some yorkies do outstanding on a great quality high protein diet - my Nikko happens to be one of those.

There are also well-reasoned sounding arguments advocating high protein and for low protein, and I honestly can't find an absolute answer. In dog food, there seems to be much more money dumped into marketing than into solid scientific long-term research, unfortunately. So in my opinion, you just have to decide to feed what you feel best feeding, then go for it. After that, you should watch how your dog reacts, how his temperment may or may not change, how his coat and eyes and everything else looks, how his stools look, and if you want to, it would even be great if you wanted to go get bloodwork done on him after you've been feeding whatever you decide to feed for awhile.

You're on the right track though, and it looks like you're really doing your research as best as possible. I went through a good month or two of obsessing over foods and protein and grains and raw and so on... Now I still obsess a little, and I'm still working on figuring out if I'm going to feed raw, which I really do want to... but at least for the moment, I feel good that Nikko is happy and healthy eating his EVO. I have no doubt you'll find a good food for your dog too, even if it takes you a couple tries. Just reason through as much as you can, and pay close attention to any changes you see in your baby when you change foods. S'all good.

Lauren & Nikko
lemonlauren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2009, 06:51 AM   #6
Donating YT 2000 Club Member
 
Ladymom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,317
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemonlauren View Post
I feed my pup EVO kibble, and he's doing so much better on it than he was on his previous grain-filled lower-protein food, and he just had bloodwork done for his neuter that confirmed that he is very healthy and happy eating EVO, and his organs are processing it just like healthy organs should.

However, it's true that high protein foods are not right for every dog, or every yorkie either. Just like not every yorkie is allergic to grains, or corn, or chicken the way some are, not every yorkie does best on a high protein grain-free food like EVO. But of course on the flipside, some yorkies do outstanding on a great quality high protein diet - my Nikko happens to be one of those.

There are also well-reasoned sounding arguments advocating high protein and for low protein, and I honestly can't find an absolute answer. In dog food, there seems to be much more money dumped into marketing than into solid scientific long-term research, unfortunately. So in my opinion, you just have to decide to feed what you feel best feeding, then go for it. After that, you should watch how your dog reacts, how his temperment may or may not change, how his coat and eyes and everything else looks, how his stools look, and if you want to, it would even be great if you wanted to go get bloodwork done on him after you've been feeding whatever you decide to feed for awhile.

You're on the right track though, and it looks like you're really doing your research as best as possible. I went through a good month or two of obsessing over foods and protein and grains and raw and so on... Now I still obsess a little, and I'm still working on figuring out if I'm going to feed raw, which I really do want to... but at least for the moment, I feel good that Nikko is happy and healthy eating his EVO. I have no doubt you'll find a good food for your dog too, even if it takes you a couple tries. Just reason through as much as you can, and pay close attention to any changes you see in your baby when you change foods. S'all good.

Lauren & Nikko
Just make sure you check Nikko's triglycerides regularly. The high protein foods are also high in fat. Innova's Evo is especially high. A little Maltese on another forum developed high triglycerides and fat deposits behind his eyes from Evo. He was switched to Wellness and his bloodwork was normal.

You might also want to read this thread. Michelle's Lacy was diagnosed with a fatty liver and her high protein diet is suspected.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...me-advice.html
Ladymom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2009, 07:47 AM   #7
Donating YT 500 Club Member
 
_Chrissy_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,561
Default

Thanks for all the replies!!!!!
__________________
Max (the Morkie) & Mickey (the Yorkie)
_Chrissy_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2009, 10:44 AM   #8
Furbutts = LOVE
Donating Member
Moderator
 
Wylie's Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 35,889
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom View Post
Just make sure you check Nikko's triglycerides regularly. The high protein foods are also high in fat. Innova's Evo is especially high. A little Maltese on another forum developed high triglycerides and fat deposits behind his eyes from Evo. He was switched to Wellness and his bloodwork was normal.

You might also want to read this thread. Michelle's Lacy was diagnosed with a fatty liver and her high protein diet is suspected.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...me-advice.html
I think we have to be a little careful when making correlations or assumptions like this (not saying you are making the assumption, Ladymom , but that maltese owner). Because, I don't think there is proof that the cause of the Maltese's problem was just diet (despite the bloodwork), nor was there proof in Lacy's case. Fatty liver is often idiopathic - in both dogs and humans.

What is possibly more likely is that both these dogs had some kind of predisposition toward these disease states, just waiting for the right trigger - if it ever came. *Boom*, the trigger was introduced and a health issue was instigated.

Of the same vein, think of diabetes - say one of these dogs, unknowingly, had a genetic vulnerability toward diabetes and this particular owner chose a high grain/carb diet for this dog, the dog becomes obese bc it cannot properly process carbs - diabetes sets in. Is it the fault of the diet? No, not directly. It's a combination of nurture and nature - as are almost *all* disease states. In this case - a scenario could unfold here at YT where all of a sudden everyone was in an alarmist state saying "DON'T feed high carb/grain diets - they *cause* diabetes!" - and that's simply not true.

That's how myths get started and I just think we should be careful there - we've seen it here before. Such as the myth that high protein diets cause kidney/liver issues - we all know that's not true, yet the myth prevails.

My point is, I hope we're all careful in blaming this diet, or that diet, or Petzlife (a possible suspect, initially, in Lacy's case), or this product, or that product as the cause of a disease state. It's almost never that simple. I mean no offense, it just concerns me quite a bit.
__________________
~ A friend told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn. ~

°¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° Ann | Pfeiffer | Marcel Verdel Purcell | Wylie | Artie °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨°
Wylie's Mom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2009, 06:01 PM   #9
YT 3000 Club Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: washington
Posts: 3,383
Blog Entries: 1
Default

I get the whole dog journal and they recently rated wet and dry food and the nb was in both of them, they test all of their food every batch for toxins and they are available to look at on the computer. They dont have any preseratives and all that extra junk in their food
chestermama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2009, 08:54 PM   #10
Donating YT 2000 Club Member
 
Ladymom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,317
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom View Post
I think we have to be a little careful when making correlations or assumptions like this (not saying you are making the assumption, Ladymom , but that maltese owner). Because, I don't think there is proof that the cause of the Maltese's problem was just diet (despite the bloodwork), nor was there proof in Lacy's case. Fatty liver is often idiopathic - in both dogs and humans.

What is possibly more likely is that both these dogs had some kind of predisposition toward these disease states, just waiting for the right trigger - if it ever came. *Boom*, the trigger was introduced and a health issue was instigated.

Of the same vein, think of diabetes - say one of these dogs, unknowingly, had a genetic vulnerability toward diabetes and this particular owner chose a high grain/carb diet for this dog, the dog becomes obese bc it cannot properly process carbs - diabetes sets in. Is it the fault of the diet? No, not directly. It's a combination of nurture and nature - as are almost *all* disease states. In this case - a scenario could unfold here at YT where all of a sudden everyone was in an alarmist state saying "DON'T feed high carb/grain diets - they *cause* diabetes!" - and that's simply not true.

That's how myths get started and I just think we should be careful there - we've seen it here before. Such as the myth that high protein diets cause kidney/liver issues - we all know that's not true, yet the myth prevails.

My point is, I hope we're all careful in blaming this diet, or that diet, or Petzlife (a possible suspect, initially, in Lacy's case), or this product, or that product as the cause of a disease state. It's almost never that simple. I mean no offense, it just concerns me quite a bit.
You are absolutely right. I didn't word that right. I shouldn't have said that Quincy's high triglycerides were caused by Evo because that can't be proven.

Anyway you can delete my post?
Ladymom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2009, 04:45 AM   #11
Donating YT 500 Club Member
 
_Chrissy_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,561
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom View Post
You are absolutely right. I didn't word that right. I shouldn't have said that Quincy's high triglycerides were caused by Evo because that can't be proven.

Anyway you can delete my post?
I think it would be very safe to say "I believe Quincy's high triglycerides were caused by Evo".
No need to delete. that seems harsh

I think sometimes we are afraid to say what we believe because we fear being "slammed".
It is your belief though and you are "allowed" to have it in a free speaking forum
Personally, I WANT to know if someone feels a food or any other product did not have a positve effect on their pet.
Just as we would want to know opinions on what we like it is important here at YT (I believe) to know what others do not like for their pets.
__________________
Max (the Morkie) & Mickey (the Yorkie)
_Chrissy_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




Google
 

SHOP NOW: Amazon :: eBay :: Buy.com :: Newegg :: PetStore :: Petco :: PetSmart


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2003 - 2018 YorkieTalk.com
Privacy Policy - Terms of Use

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 761 762 763 764 765 766 767 768 769 770 771 772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798 799 800 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 808 809 810 811 812 813 814 815 816 817 818 819 820 821 822 823 824 825 826 827 828 829 830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837 838 839 840 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 849 850 851 852 853 854 855 856 857 858 859 860 861 862 863 864 865 866 867 868 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 876 877 878 879 880 881 882 883 884 885 886 887 888 889 890 891 892 893 894 895 896 897 898 899 900 901 902 903 904 905 906 907 908 909 910 911 912 913 914 915 916 917 918 919 920 921 922 923 924 925 926 927 928 929 930 931 932 933 934 935 936 937 938 939 940 941 942 943 944 945 946 947 948 949 950 951 952 953 954 955 956 957 958 959 960 961 962 963 964 965 966 967 968 969 970 971 972 973 974 975 976 977 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987 988 989 990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1018 1019 1020 1021 1022 1023 1024 1025 1026 1027 1028 1029 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 1045 1046 1047 1048 1049 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 1072 1073 1074 1075 1076 1077 1078 1079 1080 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 1099 1100 1101 1102 1103 1104 1105 1106 1107 1108 1109 1110 1111 1112 1113 1114 1115 1116 1117 1118 1119 1120 1121 1122 1123 1124 1125 1126 1127 1128 1129 1130 1131 1132 1133 1134 1135 1136 1137 1138 1139 1140 1141 1142 1143 1144 1145 1146 1147 1148 1149 1150 1151 1152 1153 1154 1155 1156 1157 1158 1159 1160 1161 1162 1163 1164 1165 1166 1167