Need some advice from someone who knows about vaccines

[Jacklynn]

We took our Wrigley to the vet two days after we got him and this is what they gave him:

Drontal 22.7mg
Flotation Fecal Exam
Bordetella, 2nd, IN
DA2PP, 3rd

Then these two meds:
Iverhart Plus
Advantage Dog

Then at the bottom of the sheet it says Reminders for Wrigley:
3-4-09 Boretella Booster
3-4-09 Fecal Exam
11-22-08 Heartworm Test
9-24-08 DA2PP+L, 4th
-------------------------------

Wrigley was born May 24th so he is almost 4 months old. I don't want to take him back to that vet because for one I don't think they know very much about small dogs, but a few other reasons too. We are wanting to take him to a local vaccine clinic at a local place here that holds clinics every month.

These are the packages:
Dog Pack 1:
Rabies, 6 in 1, Bordetella, Lyme, HW test
2:
Rabies, 6 in 1, Bordetella, HW Test
3:
Rabies, 6 in 1, Bordetella
4:
6 in 1, Bordetella, HW Test
Puppy Pack:
6 in 1 Bordetella Strongid T (I think that is what it says, it is kinda faint)

Then it says they also come individually.

What would he need? What is 6 in 1? He is only almost 4 months so I don't think he should get the Rabies shot yet right?

Any ideas would be great Thanks

[Erin]

I am by no means an expert but I'll try to help. I would honestly find a new vet who will explain all of this to you!
------
Drontal 22.7mg - This is a de-wormer, I'm not familiar with the product
Flotation Fecal Exam - Checks for intestinal worms (different from heartworm)
Bordetella, 2nd, IN - Kennel Cough vaccine, he doesn't need this unless you are boarding him somewhere that requires it.
DA2PP, 3rd - This is his 3rd series of Distemper Vaccine, this is OK

Then these two meds:
Iverhart Plus - Heartworm Prevention (My dogs take Interceptor, I'm not familiar with this product)
Advantage Dog - Flea Prevention, I don't do flea prevention but we live in IL

Then at the bottom of the sheet it says Reminders for Wrigley:
3-4-09 Boretella Booster - You can skip this unless you are boarding or feel you really need it
3-4-09 Fecal Exam - Normal
11-22-08 Heartworm Test - I thought they normally did this @ 1yr old?
9-24-08 DA2PP+L, 4th - I would seriously reconsider the Lepto vaccine (If that is what +L is) The Lepto vaccine has a higher incidence of an adverse reaction than the other ones so unless you have Lepto in your area it's better to skip this one. Your vet should have explained this to you, which is why you need a new one.

The 6 in 1 is Distemper, Hepatitis, Leptospirosis, Parainfluenza and Parvovirus - Don't do it. It's too many things for them to handle all and once. I would NOT go to the clinic for these shots.

Also, I didn't see Rabies on your list of things he has had. He should get a 1 yr rabies and then in a year he should get a 3 yr rabies. No need to do rabies every year. Also, there is nothing wrong with getting the DA2PP and Rabies on different days so you don't overwhelm their tiny bodies. A good vet will offer this option and accommodate it.

Here's the bottom line, small dogs are very different than big dogs. You have to use different medications, different anesthesia... You have to find someone who is used to small dogs (and neurotic small dog owners) who will cater to you and answer your questions. My vet's office has 3 doctors and I refuse to see 2 of them not because they aren't good doctors but because they will not explain every detail of what they are doing like my vet does. It's very important to me to know exactly what's going on.

Good luck!!!

[Jacklynn]

Thanks for your explainations. They wanted to give him rabies this month which is another reason why I am not going to that vet any more, because he isn't quite 4 months old yet. I just don't think they ended up knowing much about small dogs. We just moved to the area not long ago, so we kind of just had to pick one. They were nice though lol. But when I asked about his ears standing up, he said oh, well most Yorkies ears don't stand up anyways.... I was like uhhh right.

So are you saying you think he has gotten all of the main vaccines (his puppy vaccines) that he needs and that this 4th session isn't really needed? Except for the Distemper? I mean obviously it doesn't mean he won't still go to the vet for check-ups, heartworm, things like that, but is he actually already done (again except for the distemper) with his puppy shots?

[mscat]

It depends on how old the puppy was when first vaccinated. Usually the standard puppy shots are given every three weeks, and in three sets. The rabies vaccine is given when the puppy is at least 16 weeks old.
If the puppy was given the fist set of vaccines at too younf of an age then there is a good chance that it was inaffective. The mother's antibodies protect the puppies which interferes with the vaccines. That is why the shots are done ever three weeks to assure immunity . Parvo, and distemper are typically the two most deadly illnessess in puppies.
the rabies vaccine is the only one that is a Must, by Law.

[LuvMySissy]

You would definitely need to know when the first two rounds of puppy shots were given. If one was done before the pup was 12 weeks old, you MAY want to consider another.

I do not recommend a vaccination clinic. They use older, sometimes expired vaccines and are not the most experienced injections givers. They save you money, but come with substantial risks.

Never give a 6 in 1 vaccine. New vaccination protocol does not recommend lepto, adenovirus 1, parainfluenza, lyme, or coronavirus ever on toy breeds. It is also much safer for your little guy to get individual vaccines (I personally would only give the distemper with nothing else) spaced at least two weeks apart. Rabies is last on the list, so he should not get this along with another vaccination.

Once he has had his yearly booster of distemper (again I would give this alone) and his rabies booster, he really only ever needs rabies again. Unless you are going to be boarding him, you also don't need bordatella.

If you do a search in this forum on vaccinations, you will find tons of links to the protocols and reasonings behind them. Most vets will not recommend this protocol as it would significantly decrease their revenues, most of which come from unneccesary vaccines!!!!

BTW, most allergies and other health issues animals acquire can be directly traced back to over immunization......

[Erin]

I agree with everyone else - the need for the 4th puppy shot depends on when the others were given. Sometimes it's required if the other vaccines are given too early. Sometimes it's just vets over vaccinating. That's why you need to find one who will explain it all to you and let you decide. Doing your own research is good too so you know what questions to ask.

My concern was with the Lepto part of the vaccine. That can have bad side effects. If he gets a 4th shot of just the distemper that's probably fine. The 6 in 1 also includes unnecessary vaccines. Their bodies just can't handle it and it's not worth the risk of the vaccine side effects. And when I mean side effects, I mean it could kill your puppy - so that's why you need to find a good vet who will give you all of this information. I don't want to scare you, but that is why you should not go to the clinic and you should find someone who knows about small dogs.

I totally understand the moving thing. We are moving and I will miss my vet so much. I think I will have to interview new vets before I pick one.

[Jacklynn]

The shots that I listed that he got when we took him to the vet were given September 3rd. I have his vet records for prior to that. The breeder had taken him to get his first two sets of puppy shots before we got him.

So he just got a distemper September 3rd, he doesn't need another one then for a year, or he DOES need to get one more coming up? We are suppose to go back next week (this upcoming one) for it, but we aren't going back there. I just am trying to figure out if he needs to go again for more shots or if he should be done until Rabies.

The vet says he needs "9-24-08 DA2PP+L, 4th" but you guys are saying not to do that? Or just not to do the L (Lepto) section?

I don't want to give the poor guy more than he needs, and on the practical side, I don't want to pay for shots that aren't needed/good for him.

[Jacklynn]

Originally Posted by LuvMySissy

You would definitely need to know when the first two rounds of puppy shots were given. If one was done before the pup was 12 weeks old, you MAY want to consider another.

On his vet records it says he got his first distemper July 18th, a second one August 8th and we (well the vet) gave him a 3rd September 3rd. He was born May 24th.

Bordetella was given July 18th, and then they gave it to me on our September 3rd visit.

He also had a neg. floating fecal test August 8th.

[LuvMySissy]

Originally Posted by Jacklynn

On his vet records it says he got his first distemper July 18th, a second one August 8th and we (well the vet) gave him a 3rd September 3rd. He was born May 24th.

Bordetella was given July 18th, and then they gave it to me on our September 3rd visit.

He also had a neg. floating fecal test August 8th.

So, his first set of shots was at 8 weeks and the 2nd at 11 weeks - therefore based on the holistic guidelines these shots were given too early and most likely were totally ineffective. So, really the only set that did him any good was the set on September 3rd.

Here is the link to a wonderful vet who writes about overvaccination. If you look at the bottom left of the page, there is a place to sign-up free for her blog and get her information on overvaccination. Especially with your pup being so young, you will want this information so you can be informed and tell your vet what you do and do not want!!!

Founders Veterinary Clinic - Raw Diets and the best dog foods explained.

[bellasmomok]

There is a LOT of controversy over when/what to give....I think everyone has touched on most of it, so I won't go into that. That being said, I'd look into doing a 3 yr. rabies booster more before doing it. It was my understanding awhile ago that by law it had to be done yearly (I'm not sure if the law has caught up with the science yet, sort of speak). The 3 yr. booster is a new thing....it is really expensive because it's basically the price of the one yr. x 3, so most people choose to just do it yearly. Also, since it's new, there hasn't been a lot of data to support its effectiveness, although I'm sure it passed clinical trials and all that. My thinking is, I'd rather have it on the market for awhile before I use it in my pet.....think of human medicines that have FDA approval, only to find out a couple years later that it's killing people. That's just my 2 cents. (Also, there are a lot of vets out there that say we don't really need to be giving yearly boosters, as other posters have said. I asked my vet about this, and he said that until there is ample evidence he will continue boosters. He only gives them until an animal is about 7 yrs. old or so, though, because he feels there is enough evidence to support that by this stage an animal that has been consistently vaccinated has built up enough of an immunity that it isn't needed after this point. Just something else to think about. There are always controversial issues, and we all have to decide which side we're going to take--inaction is action, right?!)

[bellasmomok]

Also, depending on what you decide to vaccinate against, there isn't anything wrong with going to a clinic, as long as you check it out and are informed. The first thing you need to know is if they are giving a killed virus or a tiny amount of live. Most vets give live ones, as they are the most effective, and there is a school of thought that the killed virus vaccines may not work like they're supposed to. Also, find out what the "6" is in the 6 in 1. In my area, a 6 in one doesn't include Lepto or Corona either one. They call it 6 in 1 because it has several different strains of the same virus....I think it's actually DA2PP, so there are 4 names, but 2 of them have 2 different strains included making it 6. Just be informed. I gave Bella her last 2 vaccines myself, so I have a pretty good understanding of what is out there. I gave her Lepto and Corona as well, because it was strongly recommended (by more than one clinic) even after they knew I wasn't going to be paying them to do it. I don't know if it's my area, or the vet's here are just of the mindset to do it?? I was worried about doing those since I read a lot about not doing it, but I also read about how contagious those diseases are and how they affect dogs and I chose my side. Maybe I shouldn't have, but.....(FYI, apparently Coronavirus is just as contagious as Parvo and is contracted in basically the same way.) Anyway, you're the one who has to decide for your dog, and it's good to be informed.

[HillbillyBelle]

The three year Rabies vaccine has been in use in my area for many years and I always have it used after the first 1 year vaccination. I do not have them vacc. for rabies til over 6 months..they are not outside dogs and are not around any other animal. So, the first shot is given at 6 months then a 3 year shot given at 18 months. Lepto and corona are still recommended only if these diseases are actually an issue in your area. Lepto causes almost 70% of the bad reactions to vaccines and there are many strains so that the med might not be effective anyway. Corona is also not usually used in my area and never in my dogs. My vet agrees with me and if there is an outbreak of anything that a vaccine is already available for, then we give it as an individual shot. I use DA2PPv for all vaccines and do not start them til 12 weeks or later if the puppy is exceptionally small.
Frankly, I have not really researched the most recent recommendations in a good while so I better get busy, huh?
And, BTW, where do you find out that the clinics use out-dated serums? That is serious.