vaccine questions??? - YorkieTalk.com Forums

mscat · 05-21-2008, 06:15 PM

I need to know from experienced Yorkie owners....

Is it true that the shots breeders can buy over the counter are not as effective then the shots a vet gives for a puppy? I am referring to the basic Parvo vaccines? AND, if a puppy is given shots from the breeder, is this a bad, or inaffective thing to do? I have been informed that if a puppy is given shots at too young of an age then they are ineffective because the mother's immunity blocks it out.
My concern is that when I first took Suzi to the vet, he reccommed to began the vaccines all over again. He told me that a dog cannot be over vaccinated?
I am scared though, because I do not want to hurt my little Yorkie. She is now 11 weeks old. However, i want her obviously protected too.
The breeder did the vaccines herself, followed the every three week schedule, and all Suzi needed was her last round of vaccines. However, if she started them too early they did not do any good?

Any suggestions PLEASE.
Thank You!
By the way, Suzi is a very healthy little puppy, full of energy and vitality. I'd like to keep it that way!

KellyV · 05-21-2008, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mscat

Is it true that the shots breeders can buy over the counter are not as effective then the shots a vet gives for a puppy? I am referring to the basic Parvo vaccines? AND, if a puppy is given shots from the breeder, is this a bad, or inaffective thing to do?

There's a difference between different brands of the vaccines, but it's not like the vet has a product that the public can't get. A lot of the online pet med retailers sell the same vaccines some vets use.
The problem can be from improper handling/shipping/storage/etc or incorrect administration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mscat

I have been informed that if a puppy is given shots at too young of an age then they are ineffective because the mother's immunity blocks it out.

True. Anything before about 8 weeks or so may be ineffective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mscat

My concern is that when I first took Suzi to the vet, he reccommed to began the vaccines all over again. He told me that a dog cannot be over vaccinated?

False. Google "vaccinosis" "over vaccination" "canine vaccine reaction", etc and you will find a TON of information stating just the opposite. Over vaccination CAN cause health problems. Maybe not immediately, but over time they might.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mscat

I am scared though, because I do not want to hurt my little Yorkie. She is now 11 weeks old. However, i want her obviously protected too.
The breeder did the vaccines herself, followed the every three week schedule, and all Suzi needed was her last round of vaccines. However, if she started them too early they did not do any good?

Depending on when she started and when she stopped, she may be okay. Most vets try to get in at least one shot AFTER they're 12-13 weeks to increase the chance of an immune response. If you want to avoid unnecessary vaccines, you could find a vet that does titer tests (it's a blood test) to check her immunity to the first vaccines she had to see if her body mounted a response.

Congrats on the new puppy! Here's to the years of joy she'll bring!

mscat · 05-21-2008, 06:54 PM

This breeder m ust have started too early though. When I got her she was 9 weeks old. AND had already been given Two rounds of shots... She was due for anther round too when I got her. That is crazy isn't it? This breeder started shots at 3-4 weeks old? Suzi did had a round of shots, so I do know she is allright, however, she is suppose to go back in anther two weeks .. I apreciate your suggestion about the blood test. Thanks ! I hope the vet will do this for me, and not have a problem with it . I hope it is not going to be too expensive either.
I will call them tommorow and check it out.

Ladymom · 05-21-2008, 08:40 PM

You'll have start the cycle of shots over again since the breeder started her shots too soon. Puppies should not start vaccinations until about 9-10 weeks old as the immunities they got from nursing will still be in their bodies several weeks after weaning.

Window of susceptibility

The age at which puppies can effectively be immunized is proportional to the amount of antibody protection the puppy received from its mother. High levels of maternal antibodies present in the puppies' bloodstream will block the effectiveness of a vaccine. When the maternal antibodies drop to a low enough level in the puppy, immunization by a commercial vaccine will work.

The antibodies from the mother generally circulate in the newborn's blood for a number of weeks. There is a period of time from several days to several weeks in which the maternal antibodies are too low to provide protection against the disease, but too high to allow a vaccine to work. This period is called the window of susceptibility. This is the time when despite being vaccinated, a puppy or kitten can still contract the disease.

Vaccination Recommendations for Puppies (Puppy Shots)

Woogie Man · 05-21-2008, 10:03 PM

There's no real difference in the quality of vaccines available. Your vet doesn't get something unavailable to your breeder. I use to have a vet that 'didn't accept' breeder vaccinations and would start the puppy like they had never received anything. I, not knowing any better at the time, went along with it. Her stated reason was that you couldn't trust a breeder to store or administer vaccines properly. With the first litter we bred, she started the pups on vaccinations at 6 weeks. I now do my own vaccinations and start at 8 weeks. Seems like in your case that one of the vaccinations given by the breeder (the second set) would have been in the recommended time frame and shouldn't be disregarded but that the first set was given too early and shouldn't be counted. This would not be 'starting over', only not counting the set given too early. I know this conflicts slightly with an earlier post but this is how I would go about it if I purchased a puppy with the vaccination history you stated. Over vaccination is a serious risk to your dog's health and some vets (IMO) don't take the issue seriously enough. There is a growing body of evidence of the risks and new protocols are being recommended by many researchers and veterinary schools. You can google 'over vaccination in dogs' and find a wealth of information.

Wylie's Mom · 05-22-2008, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mscat

He told me that a dog cannot be over vaccinated?

You've already received some great guidelines regarding vaccines. Remember that there are Core Vaccines and Non-Core Vaccines. Non-Core are really only recommended if your dog is at risk of exposure.

The statement by your VET above is *shocking*. I'm sorry, but that - in and of itself - would have me hightailing it out of that office, never to return. I can't believe those words came out of his mouth. Over vaccination is one of THE major players in many of the worst health problems we see in our dogs these days.

livingdustmops · 05-22-2008, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

The statement by your VET above is *shocking*. I'm sorry, but that - in and of itself - would have me hightailing it out of that office, never to return. I can't believe those words came out of his mouth. Over vaccination is one of THE major players in many of the worst health problems we see in our dogs these days.

I totally agree with your statement!

Here is the AVM recommendations and I have found it very helpful.

AAHA Canine Vaccine Guidelines Revised

Ladymom · 05-22-2008, 07:33 AM

Twenty-seven vet schools have adopted Dr. Jean Dodds recommended vaccine protocol:

W Jean Dodds Vaccine Protocol VACCINATION PROTOCOLS

I agree with Wylie's Mom. I would find a new vet asap. Over vaccinating dogs is very dangerous.

I recommend the book Scared Poopless for every dog owner. It is the best book on dog care I have ever read. It's written from the standpoint of the author's Maltese Chiclet and is a delightful read, too.

Amazon.com: Scared Poopless: The Straight Scoop...

mscat · 05-22-2008, 11:00 AM

Thank you very much for your resonses. I am going to count my lossess because I gave them money upfront, for a 'puppy package" , and find a better vet to take care of little Suzi.
i know she has not been overvaccinated, "yet" because she has had three rounds of shots, every three weeks... Yet since she was too young to recieve her first shots, i will informed the NEW vet that she needs one more.
Then at, least 4 months of age I believe she needs her rabies shot. I have read about these "reccommended" shots too, however, is it not neccessary to do in a Yorkie? I rather not give her those. Especially the Lepto. I have heard that there are major side effects to that one .
I like to fine a new vet that is closer to where we live anyway, and one that has my puppy's best interest in mind. Man That vet has pissed me off

He could have seriously damaged my puppy's health for the rest of her life!

Ignorant basterd.....

I am grateful that you guys assisted me. I KNEW that this was not correct, my gut instints were telling me that it was false information.
For such a young, little puppy, it DID not make any sense whatsoever to what he was telling me. Mother*********!

mscat · 05-22-2008, 04:12 PM

just to let you all know I contacted the vet and told them I was not going to bring Suzi back becasuse I had concerns and was very bothered by what the vet told me. I let them know since I prepaid for her visits what was their policy to be reimbursed?
I was told I was going to get a call back, and a few mintutes later the vet callmed me personally.
I let know about my concerns regarding the vaccines .He agreed to modify her vaccines approiately!
He told me it was very good that I was this concerned, because most people do not care.
Suzi will have her last baby shots on June 3 . This will cover her vaccine that was given to her too early, at 4 weeks.
She will only need her Rabies shot after that... When she is old enough to have it.
I understand that the other shots are only reccomended. However, reading about the Lepto shot side effects , it is not worth the extreme risk to a small Yorkie.
What have other Yorkie owners decided to do?
PLease give me feedback on your knowledge!
Thanks

livingdustmops · 05-22-2008, 04:19 PM

I do not give my Yorkies Lepto as I have been living in area's that it has not been a major concern (California, Arizona and Colorado). California has had limited cases but if you go to the east coast it is a much bigger concern. If I was in an area that it was a big concern then I would get the shot and stay at the vets office for at least an hour to see if there were any reactions to the shot.

Ladymom · 05-22-2008, 04:37 PM

I would never give lepto to a toy breed dog unless there was an outbreak in the area. If there is, Fort Dodge makes an individual vaccine that should be given separately weeks apart from the other vaccines, never in a combo shot.

Dogs rarely get a reaction to lepto with the first vaccine. It is usually the second or third shot that triggers the life threatening reaction. so you can't assume that if he didn't have a reaction the first time, it is safe to give lepto.

mscat · 05-22-2008, 04:43 PM

yes, that is what I have researched as well. Thanks, I did not know about the disease in California. She will NOT recieve this Vaccine.

mscat · 05-22-2008, 04:55 PM

yes, that is what I have researched as well. Thanks, I did not know about the disease in California. She will NOT recieve this Vaccine.

05-21-2008, 06:15 PM	#1
mscat Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Avenal, California Posts: 1,723	vaccine questions??? I need to know from experienced Yorkie owners.... Is it true that the shots breeders can buy over the counter are not as effective then the shots a vet gives for a puppy? I am referring to the basic Parvo vaccines? AND, if a puppy is given shots from the breeder, is this a bad, or inaffective thing to do? I have been informed that if a puppy is given shots at too young of an age then they are ineffective because the mother's immunity blocks it out. My concern is that when I first took Suzi to the vet, he reccommed to began the vaccines all over again. He told me that a dog cannot be over vaccinated? I am scared though, because I do not want to hurt my little Yorkie. She is now 11 weeks old. However, i want her obviously protected too. The breeder did the vaccines herself, followed the every three week schedule, and all Suzi needed was her last round of vaccines. However, if she started them too early they did not do any good? Any suggestions PLEASE. Thank You! By the way, Suzi is a very healthy little puppy, full of energy and vitality. I'd like to keep it that way!

05-21-2008, 08:40 PM	#4
Ladymom Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 2,618	You'll have start the cycle of shots over again since the breeder started her shots too soon. Puppies should not start vaccinations until about 9-10 weeks old as the immunities they got from nursing will still be in their bodies several weeks after weaning. Window of susceptibility The age at which puppies can effectively be immunized is proportional to the amount of antibody protection the puppy received from its mother. High levels of maternal antibodies present in the puppies' bloodstream will block the effectiveness of a vaccine. When the maternal antibodies drop to a low enough level in the puppy, immunization by a commercial vaccine will work. The antibodies from the mother generally circulate in the newborn's blood for a number of weeks. There is a period of time from several days to several weeks in which the maternal antibodies are too low to provide protection against the disease, but too high to allow a vaccine to work. This period is called the window of susceptibility. This is the time when despite being vaccinated, a puppy or kitten can still contract the disease. Vaccination Recommendations for Puppies (Puppy Shots) __________________ http://www.myladysdogbows.com/ High Quality Handmade Bows for the Pampered Pooch

05-22-2008, 07:33 AM	#8
Ladymom Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 2,618	Twenty-seven vet schools have adopted Dr. Jean Dodds recommended vaccine protocol: W Jean Dodds Vaccine Protocol VACCINATION PROTOCOLS I agree with Wylie's Mom. I would find a new vet asap. Over vaccinating dogs is very dangerous. I recommend the book Scared Poopless for every dog owner. It is the best book on dog care I have ever read. It's written from the standpoint of the author's Maltese Chiclet and is a delightful read, too. Amazon.com: Scared Poopless: The Straight Scoop... __________________ http://www.myladysdogbows.com/ High Quality Handmade Bows for the Pampered Pooch

05-22-2008, 04:19 PM	#11
livingdustmops Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,801	I do not give my Yorkies Lepto as I have been living in area's that it has not been a major concern (California, Arizona and Colorado). California has had limited cases but if you go to the east coast it is a much bigger concern. If I was in an area that it was a big concern then I would get the shot and stay at the vets office for at least an hour to see if there were any reactions to the shot. __________________ Cindy & The Rescue Gang Why do you think they call them Yorkshire Terrors!

05-22-2008, 04:37 PM	#12
Ladymom Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 2,618	I would never give lepto to a toy breed dog unless there was an outbreak in the area. If there is, Fort Dodge makes an individual vaccine that should be given separately weeks apart from the other vaccines, never in a combo shot. Dogs rarely get a reaction to lepto with the first vaccine. It is usually the second or third shot that triggers the life threatening reaction. so you can't assume that if he didn't have a reaction the first time, it is safe to give lepto. __________________ http://www.myladysdogbows.com/ High Quality Handmade Bows for the Pampered Pooch

05-21-2008, 06:54 PM	#3
mscat Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Avenal, California Posts: 1,723	This breeder m ust have started too early though. When I got her she was 9 weeks old. AND had already been given Two rounds of shots... She was due for anther round too when I got her. That is crazy isn't it? This breeder started shots at 3-4 weeks old? Suzi did had a round of shots, so I do know she is allright, however, she is suppose to go back in anther two weeks .. I apreciate your suggestion about the blood test. Thanks ! I hope the vet will do this for me, and not have a problem with it . I hope it is not going to be too expensive either. I will call them tommorow and check it out.

05-21-2008, 10:03 PM	#5
Woogie Man YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mississippi Posts: 628	There's no real difference in the quality of vaccines available. Your vet doesn't get something unavailable to your breeder. I use to have a vet that 'didn't accept' breeder vaccinations and would start the puppy like they had never received anything. I, not knowing any better at the time, went along with it. Her stated reason was that you couldn't trust a breeder to store or administer vaccines properly. With the first litter we bred, she started the pups on vaccinations at 6 weeks. I now do my own vaccinations and start at 8 weeks. Seems like in your case that one of the vaccinations given by the breeder (the second set) would have been in the recommended time frame and shouldn't be disregarded but that the first set was given too early and shouldn't be counted. This would not be 'starting over', only not counting the set given too early. I know this conflicts slightly with an earlier post but this is how I would go about it if I purchased a puppy with the vaccination history you stated. Over vaccination is a serious risk to your dog's health and some vets (IMO) don't take the issue seriously enough. There is a growing body of evidence of the risks and new protocols are being recommended by many researchers and veterinary schools. You can google 'over vaccination in dogs' and find a wealth of information.

05-22-2008, 11:00 AM	#9
mscat Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Avenal, California Posts: 1,723	Thank you very much for your resonses. I am going to count my lossess because I gave them money upfront, for a 'puppy package" , and find a better vet to take care of little Suzi. i know she has not been overvaccinated, "yet" because she has had three rounds of shots, every three weeks... Yet since she was too young to recieve her first shots, i will informed the NEW vet that she needs one more. Then at, least 4 months of age I believe she needs her rabies shot. I have read about these "reccommended" shots too, however, is it not neccessary to do in a Yorkie? I rather not give her those. Especially the Lepto. I have heard that there are major side effects to that one . I like to fine a new vet that is closer to where we live anyway, and one that has my puppy's best interest in mind. Man That vet has pissed me off He could have seriously damaged my puppy's health for the rest of her life! Ignorant basterd..... I am grateful that you guys assisted me. I KNEW that this was not correct, my gut instints were telling me that it was false information. For such a young, little puppy, it DID not make any sense whatsoever to what he was telling me. Mother*********!

05-22-2008, 04:12 PM	#10
mscat Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Avenal, California Posts: 1,723	just to let you all know I contacted the vet and told them I was not going to bring Suzi back becasuse I had concerns and was very bothered by what the vet told me. I let them know since I prepaid for her visits what was their policy to be reimbursed? I was told I was going to get a call back, and a few mintutes later the vet callmed me personally. I let know about my concerns regarding the vaccines .He agreed to modify her vaccines approiately! He told me it was very good that I was this concerned, because most people do not care. Suzi will have her last baby shots on June 3 . This will cover her vaccine that was given to her too early, at 4 weeks. She will only need her Rabies shot after that... When she is old enough to have it. I understand that the other shots are only reccomended. However, reading about the Lepto shot side effects , it is not worth the extreme risk to a small Yorkie. What have other Yorkie owners decided to do? PLease give me feedback on your knowledge! Thanks

05-22-2008, 04:43 PM	#13
mscat Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Avenal, California Posts: 1,723	yes, that is what I have researched as well. Thanks, I did not know about the disease in California. She will NOT recieve this Vaccine.

05-22-2008, 04:55 PM	#14
mscat Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Avenal, California Posts: 1,723	yes, that is what I have researched as well. Thanks, I did not know about the disease in California. She will NOT recieve this Vaccine.