Giardia

[YorkieSue]

Would love information from people who, unfortunately, may have experienced the frustrations of Giardia.

Here's the story:
I have three dogs, two Yorkies and a Shih-tzu Rescue. My Shih-tzu just turned 1y.o. yesterday (Happy B'day to Henry, la la la la LOL) and for all practical purposes seems to be thriving--finally--EXCEPT FOR one 'little' factor. He has had ONGOING poop problems. It started with explosive diarrhea that went on for weeks--saw the vet, used Flagyl, it didn't help and went back to the vet. Since I am soooooooo into holistic and natural methods with my dogs and me, I tried that route. I finally concluded that the supplements were going right thru him and stopped those.

I almost argued with my vet about the fact that I was SURE Henry had a parasite. She wouldn't hear of it UNTIL MY THIRD TRIP THERE WHEN I demanded Panacur. She wasn't happy because she continued to say that his stool results were negative. I KEPT TELLING HER THAT, "OF COURSE THEY WERE" because Giardia is almost impossible to find and 'catch'. FINALLY, she agreed to the Panacur treatment to try and 'rule out'. What was her problem in not trying the panacur IMMEDIATELY???

Ok, Henry has now had TWO DOSES (three days each) two weeks apart and has been on low residue food for over three weeks--WITH ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE BEING GIVEN TO HIM...nada, nothing, zippo etc. My vet is STILL CONVINCED THAT THAT HE HAS IBD since his stool results were negative. I am so sick of hearing about how seven samples have come back negative from THREE different vets to boot. Ok, Henry, after the Panacur and WHILE ON THE PRESCRIP FOOD has improved but not enough.

His stool is now toothpaste consistency with a few firm ones thrown in to tease me . He also has had a couple, just two or so episodes of dripping feces which seem to pass.

I am seeing my vet again this Tuesday and will report to her exactly what I have written here. My questions for will be:

1) Since his stools have 'improved' somewhat is it the panacur or the diet he is on?

2) How can it be IBD if, after three weeks with NO CHANGE IN DIET, his stools are still not perfect? And since they are still vascillating between being pick-up-able and leaving horrid stains on the sidewalk (mush) how can she diagnose IBD and not a parasite??

3) Why can't we treat Henry with Panacur OVER A PERIOD OF ONE MONTH, giving him teeny daily doses for this period of time in hopes of catching the bugger when it sheds???

I really would like some experienced input on this topic because I am so TIRED and FRUSTRATED by poor Henry's poop problems. In my humble brain, he has a parasite and not IBD...and if the panacur got him to poop pudding instead of bouillion, then the panacur DID DO SOME GOOD, DIDN'T IT???? And if it did do some good, then why not treat him daily for an extended period but in way smaller doses???

Thanks for listening...YorkieSue

[MinMuf1]

I have no insights on the how or why...But, bumping this one up because I am going through a similar situation with one of my furry butts. We're at the creamy peanut butter stage too...

[Thorsmomma]

Check out

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...3-giardia.html

or do a search for giardia. I hope you find what you are looking for.

[KellyV]

Whipworms can be difficult to detect from a fecal sample.... and just because they didn't find anything in that particular sample, doesn't mean he still doesn't have something. They're also difficult to treat, sometimes requiring several rounds of dewormer.

What food was he on before the Lo Residue?

If it is IBD, the Lo Residue food (is it Eukanuba's?) might not help. IBD can be exasperated by grains/carbs and in some cases, certain protein sources. Eukanuba's Lo Residue food contains corn and chicken. Getting him off of that and onto something different..... say, something like fish/rabbit & potato, there's a couple duck formulas out there, or even a balanced raw diet......
With any diet change you'll want to give it a minimum of 6 weeks, So it's possible that over the next few weeks the Lo Residue might work and he'll begin to have normal stool.

Probiotics can help too. Google "leaky gut" and you'll find tons on information on how an imperfect GI tract can cause problems and how probiotics can help.

[TLC]

TJ has IBD that is under control now. When he was about 5 months old he started to have these horrible episodes where I could hear a monster inside him (not really, but that is what it sounded like) and I could tell he was sick, b/c he would not eat anything and if I forced it, it would come out whole (yes whole rice and chicken pieces), so I would let it pass, meaning the globs of mucus poops that would eventually come out some time during the day. Once 'that' poop came out, my TJ was back and starving....BUT...a few days later, the same routine. This went on for weeks and weeks, but it would get worse and worse. I was at the Vet at least 2x a week. The flagyl did nothing, we did try it twice, but never again. We switched to a Duck and Potato diet, but the episodes continued. We did blood work, and his folate levels were sky high, and the Vet could 'ponder' to say that he has a form of IBD, an over growth of bacteria in his intestines, he couldn't be sure without doing a biopsy, but that is what he could venture to say based on the results. So, as a last resort to try and control this, he gave me a small bottle of Tylan Powder. Well that was the trick for TJ. I had to give him a tiny pinch every day. It took at least 2 months for the episodes to stop, and I was so happy. TJ remained on the Tylan for about a year, but when the episode were long gone, I started to wean him off the Tylan. When I got to the point of giving it to him every 5th day, the Vet said I could stop. BUT - TJ may have to go back on at some point in his life for the IBD again, but at least we know it works.

I hope that you find an answer, I had to see them like that

[LuvMySissy]

We have had two bouts of giardia and an overgrowth of bacteria with Sissy. During her first bout of giardia, she was on Pancur for two weeks and the giardia only got worse. It wasn't until she started on Metronidazole in a liquid form that she improved. She got this twice a day for 10 days.

We began giving her yogurt to help stability her digestive tract and it has helped a great deal. She has also been on freeze-dried raw for about a year now - also with great results. She does have a mild case of pancreatitis but that has also been under control.

BTW, with both bouts of Giardia, the stool sample was positive. The first time, she had a very small amount in her system. After the Pancur, that amount grew out of control!!!!!

[Erinmay]

Maggie's first stool sample had come back positive with Coccidia and we treated that...her second stool sample came back positive for Giardia. I actually questioned the vet's office whether there may have been a mix up at the lab because she had no symptoms...

With the Giardia, we were told to give her the Panacur every day for 7 days. Yesterday was the last day of the Panacur and this morning was our first poop-fest event...there was mucus in both morning stools and each time she went she also leaked a clear fluid and scooted around like a madwoman on all my carpets

Does anyone think this Panacur may have done more harm than good? Perhaps yogurt might help? What kind of yogurt is best for a 3mo old puppy?

[Rudys Mom]

I lst wanted to say " Happy Birthday " to you, Henry. Bless you for adopting Henry from a Shih Tzu Rescue. I got my Lucky from a Shih Tzu Rescue.

I don't have any experience with Giardia in dogs but my nephew had that and he lost a lot of weight and was not feeling well, even with medication for months.

Get Well Soon, Henry! Good Luck on your next vet visit.

[LuvMySissy]

Originally Posted by Erinmay

Maggie's first stool sample had come back positive with Coccidia and we treated that...her second stool sample came back positive for Giardia. I actually questioned the vet's office whether there may have been a mix up at the lab because she had no symptoms...

With the Giardia, we were told to give her the Panacur every day for 7 days. Yesterday was the last day of the Panacur and this morning was our first poop-fest event...there was mucus in both morning stools and each time she went she also leaked a clear fluid and scooted around like a madwoman on all my carpets

Does anyone think this Panacur may have done more harm than good? Perhaps yogurt might help? What kind of yogurt is best for a 3mo old puppy?

Chances are the Panacur did not take care of the Giardia completely. Request Metronidazole. With yogurt, I particularly like Stoneyfield Organic (either regular or lowfat, plain or vanilla) and also like Dannon Natural (either regular or lowfat, plain or vanilla). Start with about a teaspoon and go up to a tablespoon. It will help settle her tummy, but won't do anything for the giardia and mucousy stools.

[Erinmay]

Originally Posted by LuvMySissy

Chances are the Panacur did not take care of the Giardia completely. Request Metronidazole. With yogurt, I particularly like Stoneyfield Organic (either regular or lowfat, plain or vanilla) and also like Dannon Natural (either regular or lowfat, plain or vanilla). Start with about a teaspoon and go up to a tablespoon. It will help settle her tummy, but won't do anything for the giardia and mucousy stools.

Thank you for the advice - I'll speak to the vet on Saturday about the Metronidazole. I'll be stopping at the store today as well for the yogurt

On another note, I clicked on your website and LOVE THE DRESSES!!!! When Maggies stops squirming around and I can get accurate measurements, I am totally ordering the tank harness dress and a flannel nightie. TOO ADORABLE

[TinyBit]

[QUOTE=LuvMySissy;1996202]We have had two bouts of giardia and an overgrowth of bacteria with Sissy. During her first bout of giardia, she was on Pancur for two weeks and the giardia only got worse. It wasn't until she started on Metronidazole in a liquid form that she improved. She got this twice a day for 10 days.
QUOTE]

Giardia MUST be treated with Metronidazole to cure it....however if the puppy or other puppy have contact with fecus they will reinfect!!!!
Giardia can be killed with bleach however if you have cocciciosis, another parasite, it will not be killed with bleach and a different antibiotic will be used.

Good luck

[Erinmay]

I googled Metronidazole and found this website:
http://www.wedgewoodpharmacy.com/monographs/metronidazole.asp

Side Effects
• Most common: clinical signs related to the bad taste, or GI upset.

• Dogs and cats: excessive salivation, gagging, regurgitation, pawing at the mouth, nausea, vomiting, and decreased appetite are the most frequent complaints. Less common or rare side effects include diarrhea, depression, lethargy, weakness, low white blood cell count, liver failure, and blood in the urine, or dark urine due to pigment changes. Neurologic signs may be seen after accidental overdose or, more commonly, with long-term moderate to high-dose therapy as in the treatment of difficult bacterial infections. Signs often begin 7 to 12 days following the start of treatment.

Precautions
• Metronidazole should not be used in young puppies and kittens.

• Metronidazole should be avoided or used with caution, at reduced doses, in animals with kidney or liver disease.

Jeez - maybe Maggie's too young for this? She's only 3 months...